So our country was founded by less than perfect people!

[ObamacareForever]

Now there is a shocking bit of news...but those people, mostly men, did risk all to found the country. If they'd lost the war they certainly would have "hanged together". Some people may think the world would be better off if there had been no revolutionary war. No independent USA. I think the good about this country is far better than the bad.

So some of those founders owned slaves...does that mean we should not honor their contribution to building a nation? I say no. Racism was pretty common for hundreds of years. Should we judge Lincoln by today's standards? Seems kind of dumb to me...who knows what values may be accepted in a hundred years that many of us would be condemned by long after we are gone? Did Lincoln think highly of blacks? Doesn't seem so. Did his official acts benefit blacks in America?
In fact, isn't it true that his official policies benefited African Americans for all time, changing the course of our country forever? Didn't he actually lose his life because of that?

To fail to balance their contributions with what anyone sees as their failures is simply short sighted. If we want to go down that road then wouldn't we also have to take down Martin Luther King statues? He wasn't perfect either.

There is no excuse for building statues of slave owners. They were godless, lawless people. They didn't know right from wrong, we should be ashamed of them.

 

[middleview]

No. Nobody here should turn their back on you.

so you couldn't answer the question, meaning you probably lied, there was no post because I don't have the authority to delete any but my own posts...

And now you try another tactic...
Nice try, but you're losing.

 

[resident_evil]

so you couldn't answer the question, meaning you probably lied, there was no post because I don't have the authority to delete any but my own posts...

And now you try another tactic...
Nice try, but you're losing.

blah, blah, blah...

That post was just too memorable to have deleted and not think someone wouldn't remember.

 

[middleview]

blah, blah, blah...

That post was just too memorable to have deleted and not think someone wouldn't remember.

And yet you can find no trace and know I have no ability to delete any but my own.

The facts show you lied...not the first time.

 

[EatTheRich]

LBJ got 58,479 Americans killed (twice that since) with Gulf of Tonkin LIE

Trump got 130,000 Americans killed, so far, with his Covid lies.

and he loved using the N word

So you say and it’s plausible. Didn’t stop him from signing the Civil Rights Act.

 

[EatTheRich]

Carter was OK if you liked 23% interest rates

That was capitalism’s answer to the Johnson-Nixon-Ford inflation.

 

[Drumcollie]

Our Founders were enlightened men. They based our Constitution on the tenet that

ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.

We strive to meet that ideal.

With All Lives Matter and requiring I.D. to vote, right?

 

[Drumcollie]

Trump got 130,000 Americans killed, so far, with his Covid lies.


So you say and it’s plausible. Didn’t stop him from signing the Civil Rights Act.

1. How?

2. The civil rights bills were amendments to the constitution and were done by 1872. You wanna explain why Johnson signed a bill in 1964? I betcha don't.

 

[Drumcollie]

That was capitalism’s answer to the Johnson-Nixon-Ford inflation.

Nope!

 

[EatTheRich]

Never said it was a theocracy. I said it was a Christican country.

In what respect, then? Does it routinely turn the other cheek? Store up not treasure on Earth? Comfort the afflicted? Heal the sick? Give to those in need? Forgive its enemies 70x7 times and beyond? Show mercy for the widows and the orphans?

What you're saying is a satanic lie.

Isaiah 5:20
“ Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”

 

[EatTheRich]

1. How?

2. The civil rights bills were amendments to the constitution and were done by 1872. You wanna explain why Johnson signed a bill in 1964? I betcha don't.

1. He convinced people not to wear masks. He convinced governors and members of Congress not to take it seriously. He diverted attention from fruitful avenues of study to supporting his irresponsible claims about a cure around the corner. He encouraged people to go to work while infected.
2. Obviously you knew I was talking about the Civil Rights Act of 1964 since you identified the year. So why the display of false erudition? Anyway, I do want to talk about it. He signed that act because the working-class Black-led rebellion against Jim Crow was shaking the foundations of the country, to the point that Kennedy had to call in Martin Luther King, A. Philip Randolph, and Walter Reuther to get the masses off the revolutionary road and back into channels of lobbying, lawsuits, business unionism, and occasional measured disobedience. But to do that he had to twist some arms in Congress on the civil rights bill he had long supported as part of the 2-party jockeying to stay ahead of the rapidly liberalizing public mood on civil rights. Kennedy, which could afford to give up neither Black votes nor the votes of pro-civil rights organized labor, invested nearly all his political capital in the civil rights bill, and after his murder, Johnson may have felt a personal moral obligation, and certainly was under tremendous social pressure, to honor his memory by supporting it. Regardless, Johnson still needed to defuse the radical social movement against Jim Crow before too many Black, white, and Latino Americans were radicalized by participation in it. One of the main reasons there was a bill to sign was that the United Auto Workers put the screws to the auto companies to back off their financial support for northern conservatives (mostly Republicans) who opposed Title II on “owner’s right to decide whom to serve” grounds (Title II barred discrimination in public accommodations ... Southern Democratic conservatives who were gonna vote against it regardless, but could be persuaded to pursue their filibusters with less tenacity by patronage and concessions, mostly objected to Title VII on equal employment opportunity).

 

[resident_evil]

In what respect, then? Does it routinely turn the other cheek? Store up not treasure on Earth? Comfort the afflicted? Heal the sick? Give to those in need? Forgive its enemies 70x7 times and beyond? Show mercy for the widows and the orphans?

Americans have done that time and again. More so when there were more Christians. It is the people who do those things. It isn't the government that does and that is your problem. Your expectation that the government should.

Isaiah 5:20
“ Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”

My Bible not no stinkin' communist's ;0)

 

[resident_evil]

And yet you can find no trace and know I have no ability to delete any but my own.

The facts show you lied...not the first time.

Dude, after that - you're blocked.

 

[resident_evil]

1. He convinced people not to wear masks. He convinced governors and members of Congress not to take it seriously. He diverted attention from fruitful avenues of study to supporting his irresponsible claims about a cure around the corner. He encouraged people to go to work while infected.
2. Obviously you knew I was talking about the Civil Rights Act of 1964 since you identified the year. So why the display of false erudition? Anyway, I do want to talk about it. He signed that act because the working-class Black-led rebellion against Jim Crow was shaking the foundations of the country, to the point that Kennedy had to call in Martin Luther King, A. Philip Randolph, and Walter Reuther to get the masses off the revolutionary road and back into channels of lobbying, lawsuits, business unionism, and occasional measured disobedience. But to do that he had to twist some arms in Congress on the civil rights bill he had long supported as part of the 2-party jockeying to stay ahead of the rapidly liberalizing public mood on civil rights. Kennedy, which could afford to give up neither Black votes nor the votes of pro-civil rights organized labor, invested nearly all his political capital in the civil rights bill, and after his murder, Johnson may have felt a personal moral obligation, and certainly was under tremendous social pressure, to honor his memory by supporting it. Regardless, Johnson still needed to defuse the radical social movement against Jim Crow before too many Black, white, and Latino Americans were radicalized by participation in it. One of the main reasons there was a bill to sign was that the United Auto Workers put the screws to the auto companies to back off their financial support for northern conservatives (mostly Republicans) who opposed Title II on “owner’s right to decide whom to serve” grounds (Title II barred discrimination in public accommodations ... Southern Democratic conservatives who were gonna vote against it regardless, but could be persuaded to pursue their filibusters with less tenacity by patronage and concessions, mostly objected to Title VII on equal employment opportunity).

1. HCQS works.
2. To save blacks from a race war.

 

[Sickofleft]

Now there is a shocking bit of news...but those people, mostly men, did risk all to found the country. If they'd lost the war they certainly would have "hanged together". Some people may think the world would be better off if there had been no revolutionary war. No independent USA. I think the good about this country is far better than the bad.

So some of those founders owned slaves...does that mean we should not honor their contribution to building a nation? I say no. Racism was pretty common for hundreds of years. Should we judge Lincoln by today's standards? Seems kind of dumb to me...who knows what values may be accepted in a hundred years that many of us would be condemned by long after we are gone? Did Lincoln think highly of blacks? Doesn't seem so. Did his official acts benefit blacks in America?
In fact, isn't it true that his official policies benefited African Americans for all time, changing the course of our country forever? Didn't he actually lose his life because of that?

To fail to balance their contributions with what anyone sees as their failures is simply short sighted. If we want to go down that road then wouldn't we also have to take down Martin Luther King statues? He wasn't perfect either.

Sound reasoning but you are giving the people doing this too much credit. They don't care what the Statues represent because they have no idea who these people are.

For the left, it is a means to end, erase the past, and control the future. When they are done with this, as movements through history have done, they will start coming for people.

They won't give a shit that you voted for Biden.

 

[middleview]

Sound reasoning but you are giving the people doing this too much credit. They don't care what the Statues represent because they have no idea who these people are.

For the left, it is a means to end, erase the past, and control the future. When they are done with this, as movements through history have done, they will start coming for people.

They won't give a shit that you voted for Biden.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

 

[Sickofleft]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Which has been the mantra from the left since 2016. It is falling, and you are voting to keep it that way because for whatever reason you are failing to see what is actually happening.

 

[middleview]

Which has been the mantra from the left since 2016. It is falling, and you are voting to keep it that way because for whatever reason you are failing to see what is actually happening.

Your attempt to use fear to gain votes isn't working, don't you get that? The right wing threat of civil war is bullshit as is the handful of people who are on the far left wanting to take down statues. BFD. Anyone committing vandalism, no matter their justification, should be prosecuted. If you think those few are going to threaten capitalism, our economy, our democracy...you're nuts.

Trump is the greater threat. His divisiveness fits right in with your rhetoric. That is all he has to run on.

 

[Zam-Zam]

I can't speak for someone who knows their ancestors were slaves or were members of an Indian tribe slaughtered by army troops or settlers. I see those statues as honoring people and in some cases the honor is not deserved. Robert E Lee was the commanding general of an army dedicated to dividing and destroying our nation. I see no reason to honor him or other Generals of that army, any more than we should have statues honoring Lord Cornwallis or Benedict Arnold...They too are part of where we came from.

My objection is to allowing a mob to decide for everyone. If we as a society decide that certain monuments should be removed, so be it. Let's do it it in a lawful, orderly fashion.
To have a lynch mob go out and do it as they see fit is not democracy.

The mob tore down a statue honoring an abolitionist because they were too ignorant to know who he was or what he stood for - There's no defense for that.

 

[ObamacareForever]

The mob tore down a statue honoring an abolitionist because they were too ignorant to know who he was or what he stood for - There's no defense for that.

No, the right-wing mob is too ignorant to understand what tearing down the statues mean.