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So, what’s the connection between the new indictments and Trump’s Ukraine outrages?

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
A majority of the U.S. favors impeachment and removal of Trump. The legal warrant for impeachment is plentiful. But there are enough Senators willing to protect Trump’s lawlessness to further their own careers that impeachment now would result in senatorial nullification.
The polls are mixed on that, with many showing less than "majority" support. Especially the more recent ones, as more of the facts have come out regarding the "whistle blower's" status as a registered democrat with close ties to anti_Trump democrats (including, apparently, John Brennan and Joe Biden). I suggest we watch this for a bit before we declare the public on Pelosi's side. After all, remember, Nancy Pelosi polls in the teens. Trump is talking about suing Pelosi and Shiff and I for one hope he does it. The political theatrics will be epic…

tenor.gif
 

Nostra

Governor
Ah, the smell of desperation in the morning
'
How about looking at the entire exchange, not just cherry picking one sentence and inserting complete bullshit.




President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 100% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union, especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it, if that's possible.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
'
How about looking at the entire exchange, not just cherry picking one sentence and inserting complete bullshit.




President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 100% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union, especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it, if that's possible.
So he was simply requesting that they cooperate with Barr's investigation of the genesis of "crossfire hurricane." Sounds legit to me...
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
'
How about looking at the entire exchange, not just cherry picking one sentence and inserting complete bullshit.




President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 100% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union, especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it, if that's possible.
"The other thing, there's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find about that, so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great. Biden went around bragging he stopped the prosecution"....

1. it is a lie that Biden bragged about stopping a prosecution.
2. "The other thing" was part of that favor Trump expected in return for those missiles.
 

Nostra

Governor
"The other thing, there's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find about that, so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great. Biden went around bragging he stopped the prosecution"....

1. it is a lie that Biden bragged about stopping a prosecution.
2. "The other thing" was part of that favor Trump expected in return for those missiles.
You edited it again.....

... so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
Nothing about holding up anything, no demand he do anything.

You have nothing. Zip. Zero. Nada
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
You edited it again.....



Nothing about holding up anything, no demand he do anything.

You have nothing. Zip. Zero. Nada
Yeah, part of "do me a favor"....He didn't have to mention he was holding up $400 million in military aid....it is idiotic to suggest that wasn't part of the deal.

Why did Trump lie about what Biden had said? Biden did not try to stop an investigation. Firing the prosecutor was something a lot of republicans, democrats (in congress) and people within the EU and IMF had demanded.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
So he was simply requesting that they cooperate with Barr's investigation of the genesis of "crossfire hurricane." Sounds legit to me...
What did Hunter Biden have to do with Crossfire Hurricane?

What did javelin missiles or the hold on $400 million in military aid have to do with Crossfire Hurricane.

You're getting desperate...
 

Nostra

Governor
Yeah, part of "do me a favor"....He didn't have to mention he was holding up $400 million in military aid....it is idiotic to suggest that wasn't part of the deal.
.
Only in nutter world.

He didn't hold anything up, he made no demands.

You got nothing.

Zip. Zero. Nada.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Only in nutter world.

He didn't hold anything up, he made no demands.

You got nothing.

Zip. Zero. Nada.
So Trump did not order a hold on $400 million in military aid for Ukraine? The Ukrainian president did not bring up buying javelin missiles which Trump linked to a favor?

House Democrats look for paper trail on blocked military aid to Ukraine

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/house-democrats-look-paper-trail-blocked-military-aid-ukraine-n1063521
 

Nostra

Governor
So Trump did not order a hold on $400 million in military aid for Ukraine? The Ukrainian president did not bring up buying javelin missiles which Trump linked to a favor?

House Democrats look for paper trail on blocked military aid to Ukraine

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/house-democrats-look-paper-trail-blocked-military-aid-ukraine-n1063521
Trump didn't "link" anything. Your imagination is funny.


It is well documented the hold was to get the EU to pitch in their fair share. Trump has a long track record of holding country's feet to the fire to get them to pay what they agree to. See the UN for a great example.

Next?
 

reason10

Mayor
Here’s a piece that neatly analyzes that question...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/giuliani-ukraine-associates-arrested-sdny-trump-corrupt-elections.html

The highlights:

“But more interesting than the details of the petty influence-peddling efforts are the allegations in the complaint that the purpose was to further the bigger political goals of the co-conspirators. According to the Wall Street Journal, the defendants funneled $325,000 to a pro-Trump super PAC. They then worked with the president’s personal attorney, Giuliani, to remove the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. (They further allegedly sought to lobby an unnamed congressman to seek the ambassador’s removal.) The apparent goal was to move her out of the way so Giuliani, on Trump’s behalf, could pressure Ukraine prosecutors to dig up or fabricate dirt on Joe Biden and his son Hunter. All of this is at the center of Congress’ impeachment inquiry of the president, and House Democrats were reportedly due to seek to depose the two men as critical witnesses prior to their arrest.

It’s worth noting that the key portion of the Ukraine call transcript, which demonstrated the president’s efforts to pressure Ukraine’s president to investigate Biden, is also the portion in which Trump brings up the removed ambassador....

We don’t yet know why the ambassador was removed, but we now know that Trump’s own Department of Justice alleges that there was a foreign influence effort to have her removed backed by a foreign national and undertaken by two people who Trump’s own former attorney has said were working on behalf of Giuliani and Trump. We also know that the president raised the ambassador’s removal directly before bringing up the Bidens with the Ukrainian president.
Again, all of this holds vast implications for the House’s impeachment probe and the picture is only starting to come together.”

Read the whole thing. Good stuff.
Edited

2. There have been NO Trump atrocities in Ukraine. You already have the truth about what Biden did and what Trump mentioned in that transcript, so everything you are vomiting on this forum is more left wing LIES and bullschitt.
 
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reason10

Mayor
It was too much that Trump was caught doing with Ukraine for the 2020 election what Mueller investigated his campaign of doing with Russia in 2016....solicit and accept illegal foreign help.
Both of those are lies. You know those are lies.

If they were even close to true, this Edited House would already have impeached Trump.

They are lies. Edited
 
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EatTheRich

President
If you have to "self identify" as anything, the chances are pretty good you are not what you say you are:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elizabeth-warren-vows-to-remake-capitalism-businesses-are-bracing-11570643931

A "capitalist to the bone" doesn't vow to "remake" it "from the ground up." I have no doubt the DNC propaganda arm (otherwise known as the "news" media) will seek to, well, propagandize the issue, as you have done here. But Trump's going to have a half billion $ to spend to expose her as the (closet) Marxist she so assuredly is.
“Closet Marxist” is a contradiction in terms. “The communists disdain to conceal their views and aims.”

If you say Warren’s attacks on corruption are attacks on capitalism in general, what does that say about capitalism?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Trump didn't "link" anything. Your imagination is funny.


It is well documented the hold was to get the EU to pitch in their fair share. Trump has a long track record of holding country's feet to the fire to get them to pay what they agree to. See the UN for a great example.

Next?
Trump can't seem to make his mind as to why he put a hold on that aid...but at least you admit you lied when you wrote "Trump didn't hold anything"...that is progress.

At first he told State and DOD personnel that he wasn't sure the money was needed, he then told republican senators he wanted to find out if Zelensky was pro Putin, then it was because he suspected corruption in Ukraine...then he claimed it was to get EU to chip in.

Officials at the Office of Management and Budget relayed Trump’s order to the State Department and the Pentagon during an interagency meeting in mid-July, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. They explained that the president had “concerns” and wanted to analyze whether the money needed to be spent.

Administration officials were instructed to tell lawmakers that the delays were part of an “interagency process” but to give them no additional information — a pattern that continued for nearly two months, until the White House released the funds on the night of Sept. 11.

Republican senators on the Senate Appropriations Committee said Sept. 12 that the aid to Ukraine had been held up while the Trump administration explored whether Zelensky, the country’s new president, was pro-Russian or pro-Western.

AND FINALLY...

One senior administration official said Monday that Trump’s decision to hold back the funds was based on his concerns about there being “a lot of corruption in Ukraine” and that the determination to release the money was motivated by the fiscal year’s looming close on Sept. 30.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-ordered-hold-on-military-aid-days-before-calling-ukrainian-president-officials-say/2019/09/23/df93a6ca-de38-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html
 
D

Deleted member 21794

Guest
Yeah, part of "do me a favor"....He didn't have to mention he was holding up $400 million in military aid....it is idiotic to suggest that wasn't part of the deal.

Why did Trump lie about what Biden had said? Biden did not try to stop an investigation. Firing the prosecutor was something a lot of republicans, democrats (in congress) and people within the EU and IMF had demanded.
It appears you're behind on your talking points. Nazi Piglosi says you don't need no stinkin' quid pro quo. Given DemocRAT propaganda budget cutbacks, you may get shorted on your pay if you keep expending energy on it.

Just trying to help look out for your paycheck. No need to thank me.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
It appears you're behind on your talking points. Nazi Piglosi says you don't need no stinkin' quid pro quo. Given DemocRAT propaganda budget cutbacks, you may get shorted on your pay if you keep expending energy on it.

Just trying to help look out for your paycheck. No need to thank me.
Nice dodge to avoid actually addressing those points. Typical of you.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
“Closet Marxist” is a contradiction in terms. “The communists disdain to conceal their views and aims.”

If you say Warren’s attacks on corruption are attacks on capitalism in general, what does that say about capitalism?
That is absurd - the term subversive communist is almost redundant.
 
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