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Solyndra: An Obama Success?

Arkady

President
For years, Republicans have attacked Obama for the failure of the company Solyndra, a solar panel manufacturer that got money as part of the stimulus plan. Judging this investment the way you'd judge a private-sector investment (in terms of the return on capital to the investor) misses the point. The government shouldn't be thinking of its investments that way. To do so would merely duplicate the role of private sector capital in the system, which would be redundant even if the government could do it as well as private investors. The whole point of the government investing in things is that they can consider broader implications that private investors don't care about.

In the case of the Solyndra investment, there were two broader considerations the government had in mind that private investors would not factor into their decision. One was the overall economy. The stimulus plan was an entirely economically orthodox attempt at counter-cyclical government spending. The government was attempting to "prime the pump" to get the economy flowing again. On that front, the stimulus plan was a qualified success. The economy had started growing again by mid-2009, and it's almost certain things would a have been much worse if the government hadn't helped preserve jobs by financing economic activity through the stimulus plan. Internationally, countries that instead took a more austere approach to the crisis have mostly done much worse than the US.

The second goal of the investment was to try to encourage innovation in solar panel design and manufacture. Although private investors think about those things, too, they do so in a much narrower way. The only such innovations they tend to factor into their decisions are those with fairly short-term returns (few investors are looking to hold their investments for years, much less decades, so a next-quarter or next-year attitude predominates). And private investors are also only focusing on innovations that can be monetized by the company they're investing in. If an innovation isn't patentable, or if any patent is easily skirted with minor variations, then the innovation is likely to have little value to the investor, since all the competitors will benefit equally, and it'll show up as lower costs for the consumer rather than higher profits for the company. The government can take the broader view and support investments that may not pay off for the particular company, but have broadly distributed returns for the society in the form of lower costs.

From the perspective of that second goal, the investment in Solyndra, or at least the suite of investments ARRA made in a host of solar initiatives, might also have been a success. I'm not close enough to the solar industry to know exactly where the innovations of the last several years came from, but they've been colossally impressive in their impact on solar panel prices. Just in the last four years, the cost of solar power has dropped by half. That's the kind of break-neck advances we're used to seeing in the consumer electronics field, not in energy generation.

http://static.newclimateeconomy.report/TheNewClimateEconomyReport.pdf

At this pace, solar may soon be competitive with carbon-intense generation simply on a price point comparison. If that happens, getting our greenhouse gas problem under control could wind up being dirt cheap or even free:

http://blog-imfdirect.imf.org/2014/09/17/carbon-pricing-good-for-you-good-for-the-planet/
http://newclimateeconomy.report/

There is a long history of the government investing in things that end up paying off hugely for the society, even if you can't show a direct return on the capital. We're using an example right now. The Internet originated with a government DARPA program. Without the "loss leader" of all that initial government money building the backbone, it's unlikely a private company would have come along and done it, any more than a private company would have invested the many billions of dollars on space technology before the first commercially viable communications satellites could be launched. Government has the power and freedom to make the kinds of investments the private sector neglects, which can produce immeasurably large returns for the society as a whole in the future.
 

Saladin2

Senator
Supporting Member
Right Wingers hate Solar energy...or anything that is good for the environment...They support Big Oil...Big Coal...It is all about keeping those polluting energy sources alive...They were told Solyndra was failure,...and they will believe that no matter the future consequences lead to, or the facts say...
 

Drumcollie

* See DC's list of Kook posters*
wow going bankrupt is you mark of success. Obama was right...when he gave Solyndra 535 million dollars for nothing. In the case of Solyndra it was Obama par for the course..epic fail. Obama inst a business man, he just plays one as President and Presidents aren't supposed to run compan8ies...but his cronyism led him to place his trust in fellow lefty and right on cue...535 million dollars lost. Solyndra is a perfect example of why lefty should not be allowed to spend our money.

Nexct time ark...before you start ...try thinking of having an argument on an adult level.
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
wow going bankrupt is you mark of success. Obama was right...when he gave Solyndra 535 million dollars for nothing. In the case of Solyndra it was Obama par for the course..epic fail. Obama inst a business man, he just plays one as President and Presidents aren't supposed to run compan8ies...but his cronyism led him to place his trust in fellow lefty and right on cue...535 million dollars lost. Solyndra is a perfect example of why lefty should not be allowed to spend our money.

Nexct time ark...before you start ...try thinking of having an argument on an adult level.
You seem very concerned about 535 million dollars lost in our efforts to find cheap clean energy so we can completely forego foreign oil. Yet I don't see you decry billion...BILLION dollar overruns for a bomber. This is where adults discern priorities. Does it make more sense to invest a relatively small amount of money trying to supply cheap and clean energy, or would we rather have excess bombers that sit on the ground at a cost of 81 billion dollars?



...The U.S. Air Force’s new long-range bomber may cost as much as $81 billion for the 100 planes planned, 47 percent more than the $55 billion sticker price the service has listed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-06/u-s-bombers-seen-costing-81-billion-47-more-than-plan.html
 

Zoar

Governor
Rightiesw are mathematically challenged that has been long established.

They wail and roll on the ground and gnash their teeth over $500 MILLION INVESTED in sustainable energy and an end to DEPENDENCE on the extractive FOSSIL FUEL use yet have no problem with $91 BILLION for a KILING machine that just made the rich "corporate welfare" guys a lot richer!
 

oicu812

"Trust, but Verify"
wow,,just,,,,wow...a private company gets 535 million,,goes bankrupt,,and the left finds this positive...

wow.....
 

Fast Eddy

Mayor
Solyndra was an epic, epic failure. They did nothing to advance science. There goal was to out manufacture the Chinese. They got busy trying to automate things and didn't do very well at that, but not to worry the head guys at the company were dumping big dollars into Obama's pockets so the pipeline of money was assured, or so they thought.
When they went bankrupt many lost their jobs during hard times. The equipment bought got sold off for pennies on the dollar and many companies with orders on the books never were paid and were severely hurt financially.

China just rolled over these guys like they were not their. China had a 10 x 1 cost advandage going in and it widened the longer Solyndra was in business. Those responsible for analyzing the business prospects before giving them money failed on all accounts. I read an after the fact breakdown and the government had an epic failure by not vetting the whole plan. It was rushed through without proper checking as to the viability. Procedures were waved. This is an example of government involved in something they are not capable of handling.
 

Zoar

Governor
Solyndra was an epic, epic failure. They did nothing to advance science. There goal was to out manufacture the Chinese. They got busy trying to automate things and didn't do very well at that, but not to worry the head guys at the company were dumping big dollars into Obama's pockets so the pipeline of money was assured, or so they thought.
When they went bankrupt many lost their jobs during hard times. The equipment bought got sold off for pennies on the dollar and many companies with orders on the books never were paid and were severely hurt financially.

China just rolled over these guys like they were not their. China had a 10 x 1 cost advandage going in and it widened the longer Solyndra was in business. Those responsible for analyzing the business prospects before giving them money failed on all accounts. I read an after the fact breakdown and the government had an epic failure by not vetting the whole plan. It was rushed through without proper checking as to the viability. Procedures were waved. This is an example of government involved in something they are not capable of handling.

an epic, epic failure, eh??? I guess all the dozens of billion a year lost in DoD waste is NOT epic to you...

And yes then there is the TRUTH about SOLY:

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/quit-outrage-solyndra-article-1.1154467

Republicans love using Solyndra like a swear word but IF they understood the truth about how it was funded via BI Partisan support with a lot of private money, and if they understood anything about BUSINESS---they would not be using the word Solyndra as they do.

But we all know most Republicans are not too smart about most things, including how business actually works.
 

Spamature

President
wow going bankrupt is you mark of success. Obama was right...when he gave Solyndra 535 million dollars for nothing. In the case of Solyndra it was Obama par for the course..epic fail. Obama inst a business man, he just plays one as President and Presidents aren't supposed to run compan8ies...but his cronyism led him to place his trust in fellow lefty and right on cue...535 million dollars lost. Solyndra is a perfect example of why lefty should not be allowed to spend our money.

Nexct time ark...before you start ...try thinking of having an argument on an adult level.

What about the $37 billion/yr the govt spends to subsidize oil companies ?
 

Spamature

President
Last I checked, the oil companies were still in business.

I know that liberals know nothing about business, but when you go out of business, thats usually considered a fail.
Are you saying that the answer would be to give $37 billion/yr to solar and that way they'd still be in business like the oil companies ?
 

oicu812

"Trust, but Verify"
by their failed logic,,9-11 was a positive because we built stronger buildings less likely to fail,,and the titanic disaster was good because we learned how to make stronger steel,,,ww2 was good because we learned how to make atomic weapons [oops]...

the mental mastubation of the left is undeniably just that,,jerking off in an attempt to salvage whatever they can from their horribly failed policies/actions...like nobody notices...
 

Spamature

President
by their failed logic,,9-11 was a positive because we built stronger buildings less likely to fail,,and the titanic disaster was good because we learned how to make stronger steel,,,ww2 was good because we learned how to make atomic weapons [oops]...

the mental mastubation of the left is undeniably just that,,jerking off in an attempt to salvage whatever they can from their horribly failed policies/actions...like nobody notices...
And conservatives believe that invading Iraq and overthrowing a dictator was a positive because now there are people over there who have the freedom to fight for the kind of world they believe in and spread that belief to other countries using the same model conservatives gave them .
 
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oicu812

"Trust, but Verify"
And conservatives believe that invading Iraq and overthrowing a dictator was a positive because now there are people over there who have the freedom to fight for the kind of world they believe in and spread that believe to other country using the model conservatives gave them .
so you believe solyndras bankruptcy was an obama success?

i think you might...sad,,but i think you might...

i wonder if the democrats are going to use the bankrupt co. as part of their running campaign?

SOLYNDRA HUGE SUCCESS!!!

i certainly hope they do...
 

Colorforms

Senator
so you believe solyndras bankruptcy was an obama success?

i think you might...sad,,but i think you might...

i wonder if the democrats are going to use the bankrupt co. as part of their running campaign?

SOLYNDRA HUGE SUCCESS!!!

i certainly hope they do...
Like I said, Arkady can masturbate his mind into anything.
 

Spamature

President
so you believe solyndras bankruptcy was an obama success?

i think you might...sad,,but i think you might...

i wonder if the democrats are going to use the bankrupt co. as part of their running campaign?

SOLYNDRA HUGE SUCCESS!!!

i certainly hope they do...
Solyndra failed because the Chinese so heavily subsidized their solar industry that Solyndra's technology could not compete from a price perspective.
 
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