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Sorry, guys... no comfy balls for you!

Arkady

President
Yeah um.. neutral is just that neutral.
I'm all for making the education neutral. In my personal case, I'm strongly in favor of premarital sex. I think someone who waits until their wedding night to see if they're sexually compatible with the person they just committed to is asking for serious trouble, and I also think that misses an opportunity for years of pleasure for no good reason. But, I'm not calling for that message to be taught. I may think premarital sex is a great idea, but I'm entirely comfortable with sex ed that neither encourages nor discourages it, but simply provides the facts about it. How about you? Can you give me an example of what you'd consider a proper "neutral" lesson on sex?
 

Caroljo

Senator
You see, THIS is what being the "equalizer" of the board gets you. You make the most ridiculous claims just to try to even things out. And this is one of the most ridiculous claims I've seen on this board.

You're quite hung up on one lyric by Mr. Cash's. The aforementioned "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die". However, let's take a look at, you guessed it, CONTEXT:

1. The song in which the lyric is performed is called "Folsom City Blues". Yes, Blues. As in, singing about sadness. Jay Z's well established message has never been about any sadness about any sort of violence, but of energy, power, and dominance. According to Jay Z, you're a b*tch if you get shot, and he's the mother f*cking greatest for doing so.. n*gga, or something to that effect. And you know I'm not exaggerating one bit when I mention these things.

2. Just after the line you referenced, Cash continues:

When I hear that whistle blowing, I hang my head and cry..

Hang his head and cry? What is the sudden-gangster Cash doing here? He's showing REMORSE. I've listened to much of Jay Z's library over the years (the early stuff on purpose, the later stuff in passing), and remorse for killing someone is something Jay Z has never been about expressing. He's constantly done the polar opposite, bragging about murdering "b*tch-assed n*ggas" and "f*ggots". Oh, and those women out there? Hilary? The Obama Daughters? If you talk up you might just get hit with the strap too, b*tches. (Again, I'm not exaggerating any part of Jay Z's message).

3. I'm not sure who I'm talking to exactly, but I'm hoping, Mr. Ark, you're not completely oblivious to the nuance of music. The claim that Cash and Jay Z are some sort of parallel equals in the outline of their message would say you're completely numb to the topic, but like I said earlier, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assumed you're simply "in character" and helping us all out by being our blessed watchdog towards board equality.

I've also listened to some Johnny Cash over the years, and he and Mr. Jay Z could not be more different as far as what they express.

Cash often digs inward, breaking himself down, sings about large universal topics and does at times admit to bad deeds, but in no way encourages the behavior. His music is soft, unimposing, and clam.

Jay Z, in turn, constantly boasts and brags about his dominance over all the other "n*ggas" out there, all the women he could f*ck any time he wanted, and how he's living the high life, not sorry for anything, and doesn't really give a f*ck what you think. His music is meant to be hard, at times dancy, but always aggressive. There's a clear hard-shell exterior, with plenty of guns blazing on the attack.

So please, stop this madness Ark. Drop the character. It's making you take the dumbest positions I've ever seen.
EXACTLY! Johnny Cash wrote songs about his life. He paid for his crimes, and he shared is life with the world. He never promoted crime OR used foul language to describe it! He was a person that did the crimes, paid for those crimes, and became a better person. Jay-Z? Not even close! But you know, I think I remember Renee saying she was his teacher.....that right there might be his answer. By the way, where has she been? hmmmmm........
 

connieb

Senator
I'm all for making the education neutral. In my personal case, I'm strongly in favor of premarital sex. I think someone who waits until their wedding night to see if they're sexually compatible with the person they just committed to is asking for serious trouble, and I also think that misses an opportunity for years of pleasure for no good reason. But, I'm not calling for that message to be taught. I may think premarital sex is a great idea, but I'm entirely comfortable with sex ed that neither encourages nor discourages it, but simply provides the facts about it. How about you? Can you give me an example of what you'd consider a proper "neutral" lesson on sex?
A discussion in very basic terms the mechanics would be a neutral lesson. A description of each type of birth control would be a neutral lesson. A description of the symptoms of each major type of STD, treatment options and long term health affects would be neutral.

An "are you ready" questionnaire is not neutral, not by a long shot. THAT is where you wade into the morality of the issue and the subjective nature of the issue. A discussion on birth control which concludes with "which one is right for you?" is not neutral because it implies an acceptance of sexual activity.
 
In the same sense, I can't recall Reagan ever having to answer for this:


The man in the photo with Reagan was in jail seven times, and smuggled drugs into the US from Mexico. He also glorified violence, with one of his songs famously bragging about shooting a man just to see him die. This wasn't a one-off thing, either. Reagan also appeared repeatedly with other country musicians who glorified the outlaw lifestyle. He even gave Merle Haggard, who spent time in San Quentin, and had a long criminal record, an unconditional pardon:



For some reason, I never seem to hear conservative scolding Republicans for close relationships with white crooks and entertainers who glorify the outlaw lifestyle, but if a Democrat does the same with a comparable black entertainer, look out!
Your habitual lying is a desperate cry for attention? Because Jay-Z is a douche bag evil mofo and to remotely compare ordinary troubled souls to the spawn of Satan is just ludicrus.

Johnny Cash: Although Cash carefully cultivated a romantic outlaw image, he never served a prison sentence. Despite landing in jail seven times for misdemeanors, each stay lasted only a single night. His most infamous run-in with the law occurred while on tour in 1965, when he was arrested October 4 by a narcotics squad in El Paso, Texas. The officers suspected he was smuggling heroin from Mexico, but found instead 688 Dexedrine capsules and 475 Equanil tablets that the singer had hidden inside his guitar case. Because the pills were prescription drugs rather than illegal narcotics, he received a suspended


Merle Haggard: Married and plagued by financial issues,[8] he was arrested in 1957 shortly after he tried to rob a Bakersfield roadhouse.[13] He was sent to Bakersfield Jail,[7] and was later transferred after an escape attempt to San Quentin Prison, on February 21, 1958.[14] While in prison, Haggard discovered that his wife was expecting a child from another man, which pressed him psychologically. He was fired from a series of prison jobs, and planned to escape along with another inmate nicknamed "Rabbit". Haggard was convinced not to escape by fellow inmates.[15] Haggard started to run a gambling and brewing racket with his cellmate. After he was caught drunk, he was sent for a week to solitary confinement where he encountered Caryl Chessman, an author and death row inmate.[16] Meanwhile, "Rabbit" had successfully escaped, only to shoot a police officer and return to San Quentin for execution.[15] Chessman's predicament, along with the execution of "Rabbit" inspired Haggard to turn his life around.[16] Haggard soon earned a high school equivalency diploma and kept a steady job in the prison's textile plant,[16] while also playing for the prison's country music band,[17] attributing a 1958 performance by Johnny Cash at the prison as his main inspiration to join it.[18] Upon his release in 1960, Haggard said it took about four months to get used to being out of the penitentiary and that, at times, he actually wanted to go back in. He said it was the loneliest he had ever felt
 

Arkady

President
EXACTLY! Johnny Cash wrote songs about his life. He paid for his crimes, and he shared is life with the world. He never promoted crime OR used foul language to describe it! He was a person that did the crimes, paid for those crimes, and became a better person. Jay-Z? Not even close! But you know, I think I remember Renee saying she was his teacher.....that right there might be his answer. By the way, where has she been? hmmmmm........
Are you denying that Jay-Z did the crime, that he paid for the crimes, or that he became a better person?
 

Arkady

President
A discussion on birth control which concludes with "which one is right for you?" is not neutral because it implies an acceptance of sexual activity.
If we didn't accept sexual activity, we'd go extinct. Sexual activity is a great thing. On the topic of whether a particular person is going to have sex at a particular time with a particular partner, though, a discussion of which form of birth control is the right one for the person is entirely beside the point -- it is neutral as to that question, neither encouraging nor discouraging the sex.
 

Arkady

President
Your habitual lying is a desperate cry for attention? Because Jay-Z is a douche bag evil mofo and to remotely compare ordinary troubled souls to the spawn of Satan is just ludicrus.
What lying, exactly? Could you please cite the lie? If you're going to accuse someone of lying, you better have the goods to back it, or you just look like a scumbag.
 

Barbella

Senator
You think that it taught the direct opposite of what their parents taught them? Think that through. Take another look at what is in the material and then honestly imagine what the direct opposite would be:

Don’t let what you think your friends are doing affect such an important decision. You’re not ready if the reason you want to have sex sounds anything like:

  • I’m the only “virgin” in my group of friends.
  • I want to “get it over with.”
  • My boyfriend or girlfriend will break up with me if I don’t have sex.
  • Having sex will make me popular.
  • I’ll feel older if I have sex.
Now, the direct opposite:

You should let what you think your friends are doing affect such an important decision. You’re ready if the reason you want to have sex sounds anything like:I’m the only “virgin” in my group of friends.
  • I want to “get it over with.”
  • My boyfriend or girlfriend will break up with me if I don’t have sex.
  • Having sex will make me popular.
  • I’ll feel older if I have sex.
It's possible that parents are teaching the direct opposite of what Planned Parenthood materials provide, but that seems pretty unlikely to me. How about you?
I imagine their parents taught them, at 13, that they're far too young to have sex... as opposed to asking someone if it's ok to "take their pants off".
 
What lying, exactly? Could you please cite the lie? If you're going to accuse someone of lying, you better have the goods to back it, or you just look like a scumbag.
Your lying comes in comparing Jay Z to Cash or Merle. There is a substantive difference in character and evil effect on a wider society - that was the scumbag move.
 

connieb

Senator
If we didn't accept sexual activity, we'd go extinct. Sexual activity is a great thing. On the topic of whether a particular person is going to have sex at a particular time with a particular partner, though, a discussion of which form of birth control is the right one for the person is entirely beside the point -- it is neutral as to that question, neither encouraging nor discouraging the sex.
Merely presenting the idea of considering whether it is the right time, is encouraging the activity by nothing more than offering it as an option. That treads too closely to presenting an option conflicting with family values. Neutrality would be not to discuss that and stick to just the facts. This is how babies are made, this is how STD's are transmitted, etc. Deciding when or IF - is not for sex ed at school.
 
i think this is a "gay product". am i allowed to say that?

think about it - if you saw some buff dude roller blading in his underwear, with shades and a helmet on, wouldn't you think he was gay?
 

BitterPill

The Shoe Cometh
Supporting Member
Guess you missed this:

PP profits immensely from young people's promiscuity, kids feel "pressured" to have sex. Disgusting.

It was the parents of ninth-graders at Acalanes that started raising questions after their children told them one instructor threw a model of female reproductive organs at one student and that many felt the sessions were pressuring them to have sex.


“Some of the kids were distracted because it was divergent from what they were taught at home,” Dacus said.


Acalanes Union School District officials told the institute the class was not taught by teachers but rather the staff from a local Planned Parenthood in nearby Walnut Creek.


Included in the materials provided to students were documents and worksheets that included a checklist entitled, “Sex Check! Are You Ready For Sex?” in which the 13 and 14-year-old students are asked questions such as if they have water–based lubricants and condoms and if they could handle a possible infection or pregnancy. Another worksheet reads like a how-to on obtaining consent from a possible sexual partner and offers possible statements like “Do you want to go back to my place?” and “Is it OK if I take my pants off?”


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/1...ells-13-year-olds-can-have-sex-choose-gender/

There. Now you're "aware".
Fox 'News' garbage. I don't believe a word of it.
 

BitterPill

The Shoe Cometh
Supporting Member
So why were you in this conversation if you didn't know much of anything about one of the two individuals we were comparing again?

Honestly Ark, this equalizer character makes you look foolish.
You are big into rap music, Friscus?
 

connieb

Senator
i think this is a "gay product". am i allowed to say that?

think about it - if you saw some buff dude roller blading in his underwear, with shades and a helmet on, wouldn't you think he was gay?
Yes. A friend posted on facebook of these totally hot buff guys nekeed with big ornaments covering their um... package. At first glance it was good eye candy. But, then you realize that its four naked guys sitting on a stage, with their legs crossed over the other guys.... yeah.. no hetero guy would be nekkid in such close proximity to another nekkid guy... took the fun out of the whole thing.
 
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