1. Hi there guest! Welcome to PoliticalJack.com. Register for free to join our community?
    Dismiss Notice

surreal moment for America

Discussion in 'Latest Political News and Current Events' started by Days, Oct 9, 2015.

  1. Days

    Days Governor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    15,777
    Likes Received:
    2,013
    And this isn’t happening a few weeks after a November election, with plenty of time before a new Congress begins in January. We're in the middle of a congressional session, with serious deadlines -- the debt limit, funding to keep the government running, and more -- approaching rapidly. If Republicans can’t decide on their own leadership, how are they going to pass anything at all, let alone bills that require tough votes?

    Okay, so does anyone know what the November 5th deadline for raising the debt limit consists of? Are we back against the wall, needing cash to redeem bonds? Because if we are, that hasn't made its way into the media ... and jesus, you'd think the media could give a damn whether the nation collapses or not. It might be possible that the media is sooooooooo stupid, it doesn't understand the consequences of defaulting on your bonds when there's over #13 Trillion of them floating around pretending to be the asset/reserve for the planet. The nation collapses, world trade collapses, and the planet has to hit reset on world trade. Maybe this was what Jesus was looking at when he told us, "for then shall be great tribulation"?

    We've been playing with fire and I'm wondering how close we are to getting burned. As usual, there's nobody in the media remotely aware of what is really happening. Right now, I'm wondering how ugly this gets. If you had to draw up a scenario for disaster, this would be it. No one wants to step forward for the good of the country, not even that guy from Wisconsin who recently ran for Vice President. The House Speakership would be his for the taking right now - that's the #3 position in power in this nation, right behind the Vice President - and this mess could bring the republic to its knees if he keeps saying "No".

    surreal moment for America
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. The Thinker

    The Thinker Over The Top Abuser

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    33,392
    Likes Received:
    7,508
    Things have been surreal in Washington DC for quite some time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  3. worldlymrb

    worldlymrb It's OK to be White.

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    11,486
    Likes Received:
    2,155
    It is a false notion used to terrorize the ignorant that the country automatically defaults if the debt ceiling isn't raised.

    The federal govt will still collect $1.5 trillion in revenue. Thanks to The Feds Zero Interest Rate Policy (ZIRP), interest on the $20T debt is under $500B. Leaving our beloved central govt $1T to fund all its regime change wars, SSI, etc.

    Not to mention Obama could issue a executive memorandum directive order to the IRS to collect a onetime govt service charge = to last years taxes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  4. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,771
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    We're not "defaulting" on any bonds. We're just refusing to float new issuance, other than to replace retiring paper.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. worldlymrb

    worldlymrb It's OK to be White.

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    11,486
    Likes Received:
    2,155
    America already defaulted many times. In 1931, FDR Devalued the Constitutinal mandate of 1 oz gold = $20.. to $35.. Then Nixon defaulted when he devalued the USD to a promissory note in 1972. And in 2009 when US DEBT was monetized by the FRB.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Max R.

    Max R. On the road Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    Messages:
    17,445
    Likes Received:
    2,671
    Agreed.

    While the Washington idiots like to play games with the nation, the fact remains a lot of very, very rich people would have a lot to lose if the country's economy collapsed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    36,351
    Likes Received:
    4,193

    Oh don't worry another War will sort it out ------'mmmmm who shall we pick a War with this time?'

    How about Timbuktu? Nope done that one ---- Grenada? Nope done that one ---- Russia? Huh? Oh no they might fight back, Oh Hell why not that'l bankrupt them and our bankers will get nice and fat and live happily ever after. OK Russia it is, by proxi of course, no dead Americas by Jove --- a few CIA trainers of our ISIL mercenaries can go but we can just pass 'em off as mad mass murdering lone shooter terrorists and blame it on the British --- cool, sorted, another game of Golf, anyone?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    36,351
    Likes Received:
    4,193

     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Days

    Days Governor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    15,777
    Likes Received:
    2,013
    So they need money to run the govt? I hope they learned the lesson about credit rating on the bonds.
     
  10. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,771
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Yes. Either raise taxes or cut spending. The debt is too high now as it is. It is a negative drag on the economy (because it is deferred taxation) and we have a pretty punk economy. This is one way we can take away some of the headwinds we are dealing with.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Days

    Days Governor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    15,777
    Likes Received:
    2,013
    heh, good luck with that one. Actually, you are talking about the health of the government, which is not good at all and any time is a good time to start a turn-around. The economy - as it is commonly used today - is just how much money is changing hands in the market; it isn't necessarily an indicator of strength. But shutting down the government certainly won't grow the economy, not that it matters, everyone acts like the economy is the holy grail; when you think about it from the govt perspective, they stop paying out $1 and lose 50 cents they would have taxed that dollar, so it is a net gain for them. Of course you have an obligation to the electorate to run the government, but running it into the ground isn't fulfilling that obligation either.

    The word economy comes from the Greek oikonomia, which means a household administration, and was used in the New Testament by St Paul to explain how the holy spirit was dispensed to the church. In essence, he was saying that his apostleship was an administration of the gifts of the holy spirit and an operation coordinating the dispensation (or outflow) of Spirit assigned to him. So it is hard work to administer grace.

    The difference between God's economy and our economy is God's economy comes from him, we just receive. But our economy comes from us, and the government just receives.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  12. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,771
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    So we should just keep borrowing and spending because Americans don't want to pay for the government they demand? That's how Greece got to be, well, Greece!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. as seen on tv

    as seen on tv Senator

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    24,071
    Likes Received:
    8,891
    career politicians are always terrorized by the notion that they can't spend government money to buy votes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Jen

    Jen #walkaway

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    43,507
    Likes Received:
    11,368
    I am almost wondering if there is a reason nobody wants to be Speaker of the House right now. Boehner, suddenly, wants out. Now. Nobody wants to take his place (except for apparently a couple of guys who cannot get the votes). Nobody who CAN get the votes wants it.

    Is this just coincidence?
    I don't believe in coincidence.
    Apparently this is NOT a good time to be Speaker of the House.
    I wonder why.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Days

    Days Governor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    15,777
    Likes Received:
    2,013
    FYI, we are in twice as bad shape as Greece is in, along those lines. We just don't have anyone forcing us to keep the books in check. As long as we keep redeeming bonds, which the banks know better than to redeem except when they mature so we barely find the money to do so. If 1/10th of the outstanding Treasuries were brought for redemption - that would be $1.3 Trillion - the nation would be forced to default. Got any US savings bonds? You can go redeem them any day you please - same holds true for the banks... that's the high wire act the Treasury has to walk. The FED auctions our bonds off to banks the world over, they are literally floating out there, any of those banks can redeem whenever they please; but they know better, what they do is sell them on the bond market to other banks, the banks understand the need to bring in the bonds on schedule or the Treasury would face an impossible task of redemption.

    As for the govt budget; America was never supposed to go over budget except in time of war. That's why we used to call them "war bonds". America was set up to run on real money, the Constitution requires the states to pay for all services in gold or silver, not paper. Would someone point out to me where we passed an Amendment changing that? The federal government is authorized to mint hard coin, which is not the same as printing paper, can anyone point out to me an Amendment changing that? So you know, this government has been off doing its own thing, following the banks, and ignoring the Constitution.

    Rather than try to reel in a century of overspending, at our expense, why not instead just print money to pay off the debt? That way it happens at the banks' expense. Just running the government would not be very hard if we trimmed spending enough to keep the laws already passed by Congress that require a balanced budget. Congress can't even get their own members to keep the laws they passed for themselves. But they are real good at playing politics.
     
  16. Days

    Days Governor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    15,777
    Likes Received:
    2,013
    Especially compelling is the guy who just ran to be VP. He would have been our VP right now, so why is now not a good time to be Speaker?

    My understanding of the freedom caucus is that it is a secret group; voting as a block but not telling who is a member. This sounds like some kind of Orwellian government, even the 3rd world is more transparent than this.
     
  17. Jen

    Jen #walkaway

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    43,507
    Likes Received:
    11,368
    Things are getting purty scary, Days.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,771
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    That's exactly where this is headed. What do you think Japan has been doing for at least a decade? Their debt is 270% of GDP and their 10 year rate is still like 1.5%. That's not a market rate!

    The US economy is heading back into recession and the Fed is stuck at ZIRP. So what do you think the policy response to a recession will be? It will be negative interest rates and "helicopter money." That doesn't fix the economy, but the stock market sure likes it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Days

    Days Governor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    15,777
    Likes Received:
    2,013
    exacta-mundo.

    I would argue that there's never been a "recovery" that came anywhere close to recovering what was lost. The intl bankers made their money going overseas with their capital investment into China and that side of the Pacific rim. All we got was a collapse and a smoke-and-mirrors recovery. Now we have a debt that is like 500% of GDP, and interest rates that mirror Japan. The road ahead is going to be all uphill in the mud.

    Just printing more money does not rebuild the infrastructure, not when it is used to prop up existing stocks. This bull shit has been happening for 40 years and America still can't see why it isn't working.
     
  20. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    21,771
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Bingo! You are exactly correct. Are you familiar with the Eurodollar expansion (and now contraction)? That's where most of the CB's liquidity went - loans to invest in emerging market commodity and infrastructure projects (there's what - a half dozen or more entire cities in China with no one living in them. Now that the Fed has stopped expanding its balance sheet the process has reversed and now the hot money is leaving the EMs and acting like a reverse QE. So either the Fed And other developed market CBs) buys up all that paper or the world economy collapses. It's basically rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic at this point but who knows how long they can keep the plates spinning? It might be decades or it might be months. One thing for sure though is that no matter how long it lasts, there will be no economic recovery for the vast majority throughout. This "recovery" is only for bureaucrats and oligarchs. Heck of a job Bushbama...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page