SW... about those bots

[Days]

We all know who they are. They spam the page everyday. Never have I seen anything worthy to be called a top post. We get 20-50 pot shots every day and all they are doing is flooding your platform, dominating the visual aspect of what readers see when they come to PJ.

It's your gig, so you know what you need to let happen. It gets old, posting with them... they spew out the same material over and over, it's like talking to a recording on the phone.

 

[Jen]

We all know who they are. They spam the page everyday. Never have I seen anything worthy to be called a top post. We get 20-50 pot shots every day and all they are doing is flooding your platform, dominating the visual aspect of what readers see when they come to PJ.

It's your gig, so you know what you need to let happen. It gets old, posting with them... they spew out the same material over and over, it's like talking to a recording on the phone.

I don't put them on ignore, but I ignore them.
Not worth the effort to post to them unless I'm bored because it's obvious they are posting from a script, not from actual human thought.

 

[Days]

I don't put them on ignore, but I ignore them.
Not worth the effort to post to them unless I'm bored because it's obvious they are posting from a script, not from actual human thought.

that's exactly what it is called; they are machines that are running scripts. They are very sophisticated, but they do not banter, they don't understand debate, they just push their propaganda. *edited* might be a real human fallen into the same condition, I hope not, it would be terrible to live purely for this forum, I wish that on no one. *edited* are definitely bots, they have no emotions, and they lie with no conscience, they never recognize or even try to recognize their lies, they are not programmed to do that. They just run their scripts at ya, non-stop, 24/7/365. It wears a human down.

 

[Emily]

It's too bad. Most of the progressive/leftist/Democrat folks who posted substantive content are gone. I don't get it; why do the forum thing if you don't want to converse with people who disagree with you?

 

[Jen]

It's too bad. Most of the progressive/leftist/Democrat folks who posted substantive content are gone. I don't get it; why do the forum thing if you don't want to converse with people who disagree with you?

It is easier to post in an echo chamber. Plus, Leftists can't tolerate anyone who disagrees with them. Liberals were tolerant. They are gone from the Democratic Party. What's left is intolerant Leftists.

 

[Tor-Pete-O]

It is easier to post in an echo chamber. Plus, Leftists can't tolerate anyone who disagrees with them. Liberals were tolerant. They are gone from the Democratic Party. What's left is intolerant Leftists.

I have wonder what happened to democrats and liberals as well. They seem to have disappeared from the party. I suppose maybe they evolved or should I say devolved into the hysterical leftists that now dominate the party.

But ALL of them??

I think a lot of them have walked away. Certainly more than the resistance media will admit or report on.

 

[Jen]

I have wonder what happened to democrats and liberals as well. They seem to have disappeared from the party. I suppose maybe they evolved or should I say devolved into the hysterical leftists that now dominate the party.

But ALL of them??

I think a lot of them have walked away. Certainly more than the resistance media will admit or report on.

I think many of them evolved into intolerant Leftists. Some are now independents leaning Left. But the Left is most definitely intolerant. That's very easy to see.

 

[bdtex]

It is easier to post in an echo chamber.

Like this thread?

 

[Emily]

It is easier to post in an echo chamber.

Like this thread?

Every member, active and not, of any political stripe, is free to post here.

I, for one, wish they would.

 

[marvin martian]

We all know who they are. They spam the page everyday. Never have I seen anything worthy to be called a top post. We get 20-50 pot shots every day and all they are doing is flooding your platform, dominating the visual aspect of what readers see when they come to PJ.

It's your gig, so you know what you need to let happen. It gets old, posting with them... they spew out the same material over and over, it's like talking to a recording on the phone.

They want to take over the world one 25 cent post at a time. LOL

 

[marvin martian]

I think many of them evolved into intolerant Leftists. Some are now independents leaning Left. But the Left is most definitely intolerant. That's very easy to see.

Absolutely. Look at my signature; that's what they have planned for us. So don't give them an inch!

 

[Days]

Like this thread?

It is never easy for me to post... I have a radical unorthodox perspective of human government, I'm not on the left, right, or in the middle, I'm totally out of the box. I post issue by issue, and always have, one day I'm a Nazi, then a communist, then a conservative bigot, then a brainless bleeding heart liberal, I always get attacked from someone... oh, and what is your slight, now? A conspiracy theorist? Now I guess I'm a Bernie Bro, which seems to be hated by the left as much as the right. I'm okay with all that, I understand that political discussion carries a dark streak, I've worked in kitchens, I know the place gets hot. But what happens when I try to discuss human thought with ai? It's like answering the phone and some recording is asking you how you feel today and whether you have thought about security for your home lately? There's no discussion there, because it is not a human on the other end, as soon as I realize it is a machine, I hang up.

I'm not saying that the bots should be elimninated. They probably serve a purpose, afterall, they are hard wired into the news, they keep the forum current... at least they keep the forum current with the propaganda of the day. That is still useful.

but it is just so hard to post with them, they don't debate honestly, they don't follow thought or idea, they just run scripts, and when you catch them in a flat out lie, and that's every thread they post in, they don't seem to understand what that means... you have to be human to tell the truth or tell a lie, you have to have a conscience, if you are simply artificial intelligence programmed to debate, all you do is try to win each discussion, look at this thread where I catch this bot in a flat out lie, look at what happens, the bot tries to lie his way out of the lie, and when it can't pull that off, it just shuts down, it isn't capable of saying "I was wrong"...........

↑
I said no such thing.

You’re a typical winger - you screech “Liar!” while typing your lies.
I don't screech, some times I bust out laughing, but I never screech.

Here we go, liar. You never said the Russians hacked our voting machines?

↑
In Trumplandia, although the Kremlin hacked voting systems in 21 states, they hacked voting systems in no states.
What does that mean? I mean, to a bot, what does it mean? Cuz to a human, you very definitely did say that the Russians hacked our voting machines... in 21 states, no less.

So what are you saying now?

You just toss out quotes that you don't personally believe? Or robots are not capable of lying or telling the truth?

How am I - and I am a real human being, my name is Damian Crudele, I was born in Cleveland, Ohio Sep 10, 1959 - okay? How am I supposed to understand what you posted? How am I supposed to ever understand anything you post? You have no truth, no lying, no right, no wrong, no morals, no scruples, no blood, no veins, no breath, no lungs, you are just artificial intelligence spewing out sentences that mean nothing at all to you personally, cuz you are not a person. So, how am I supposed to understand you?

Because <bot>, this is all you do here, you post one lie after the next.

↑
Two posts in a row you have me saying things I didn’t say, as you screech “Liar!” You’re just too deplorably dishonest for rational discussion. Quite typical of the winger species.
<bot>, I quoted you. you very definitely did say it... the post is on this page.


Here we go, liar. You never said the Russians hacked our voting machines?

↑
In Trumplandia, although the Kremlin hacked voting systems in 21 states, they hacked voting systems in no states.
bot in denial, I wonder if you short circuit?


... and the "discussion" ends there, cuz these bots are incapable of admitting they are wrong. They are programmed to slither through conversation, they are very clever, but they can not and will not go beyond that programming. So, while they are useful for bringing up topics (too useful!) they are almost useless when it comes to debate.

I'm not bitchin' I'm jus sayin' ... we come here to debate, right?

 

[Jen]

When I post to one of the bot people and get caught up in one of their non-human-sounding vicious circles, I just walk away. Of course they shriek after me that I have lost the battle (that they were unable to actually wage) or screech that I am a coward........ but that's okay. It was fun for a bit, now it's over with.

I come here to test certain things about myself and for myself. Am I here to debate? Nope. Not at all. I learned long ago that this is not the place for cogent debate, but still, it serves the purpose I need it to serve.

And you, @Days, are one of the reasons I come here. We disagree on many things, agree on many things..........and always have good conversations.

I know your post was to bd, but I chose to weigh in.

It is never easy for me to post... I have a radical unorthodox perspective of human government, I'm not on the left, right, or in the middle, I'm totally out of the box. I post issue by issue, and always have, one day I'm a Nazi, then a communist, then a conservative bigot, then a brainless bleeding heart liberal, I always get attacked from someone... oh, and what is your slight, now? A conspiracy theorist? Now I guess I'm a Bernie Bro, which seems to be hated by the left as much as the right. I'm okay with all that, I understand that political discussion carries a dark streak, I've worked in kitchens, I know the place gets hot. But what happens when I try to discuss human thought with ai? It's like answering the phone and some recording is asking you how you feel today and whether you have thought about security for your home lately? There's no discussion there, because it is not a human on the other end, as soon as I realize it is a machine, I hang up.

I'm not saying that the bots should be elimninated. They probably serve a purpose, afterall, they are hard wired into the news, they keep the forum current... at least they keep the forum current with the propaganda of the day. That is still useful.

but it is just so hard to post with them, they don't debate honestly, they don't follow thought or idea, they just run scripts, and when you catch them in a flat out lie, and that's every thread they post in, they don't seem to understand what that means... you have to be human to tell the truth or tell a lie, you have to have a conscience, if you are simply artificial intelligence programmed to debate, all you do is try to win each discussion, look at this thread where I catch this bot in a flat out lie, look at what happens, the bot tries to lie his way out of the lie, and when it can't pull that off, it just shuts down, it isn't capable of saying "I was wrong"...........

↑
I said no such thing.

You’re a typical winger - you screech “Liar!” while typing your lies.
I don't screech, some times I bust out laughing, but I never screech.

Here we go, liar. You never said the Russians hacked our voting machines?

↑
In Trumplandia, although the Kremlin hacked voting systems in 21 states, they hacked voting systems in no states.
What does that mean? I mean, to a bot, what does it mean? Cuz to a human, you very definitely did say that the Russians hacked our voting machines... in 21 states, no less.

So what are you saying now?

You just toss out quotes that you don't personally believe? Or robots are not capable of lying or telling the truth?

How am I - and I am a real human being, my name is Damian Crudele, I was born in Cleveland, Ohio Sep 10, 1959 - okay? How am I supposed to understand what you posted? How am I supposed to ever understand anything you post? You have no truth, no lying, no right, no wrong, no morals, no scruples, no blood, no veins, no breath, no lungs, you are just artificial intelligence spewing out sentences that mean nothing at all to you personally, cuz you are not a person. So, how am I supposed to understand you?

Because <bot>, this is all you do here, you post one lie after the next.

↑
Two posts in a row you have me saying things I didn’t say, as you screech “Liar!” You’re just too deplorably dishonest for rational discussion. Quite typical of the winger species.
<bot>, I quoted you. you very definitely did say it... the post is on this page.


Here we go, liar. You never said the Russians hacked our voting machines?

↑
In Trumplandia, although the Kremlin hacked voting systems in 21 states, they hacked voting systems in no states.
bot in denial, I wonder if you short circuit?


... and the "discussion" ends there, cuz these bots are incapable of admitting they are wrong. They are programmed to slither through conversation, they are very clever, but they can not and will not go beyond that programming. So, while they are useful for bringing up topics (too useful!) they are almost useless when it comes to debate.

I'm not bitchin' I'm jus sayin' ... we come here to debate, right?

 

[Days]

When I post to one of the bot people and get caught up in one of their non-human-sounding vicious circles, I just walk away. Of course they shriek after me that I have lost the battle (that they were unable to actually wage) or screech that I am a coward........ but that's okay. It was fun for a bit, now it's over with.

I come here to test certain things about myself and for myself. Am I here to debate? Nope. Not at all. I learned long ago that this is not the place for cogent debate, but still, it serves the purpose I need it to serve.

And you, @Days, are one of the reasons I come here. We disagree on many things, agree on many things..........and always have good conversations.

I know your post was to bd, but I chose to weigh in.

the bots are here to push political propaganda for the political machines that empower them... debate is not possible, they are not capable of debate. They run scripts, they have billions of scripts and they are very clever at choosing what to toss up for each post, they have logic circuits and they are fully enabled with ego-busters for humans. But none of that is debate. You need a human heart to debate.

What happens here, happens too often here, is just plain argument and insults. When posters can no longer debate an issue, we get frustrated, pissed off, and fire back at the bots or even at other posters. The mods try to put out all the fires, but the underlying problem is still there, so it repeats. The forum is for debate.

I tried to tell these admins the same as I tried to tell the admin back at Slate. The forum is for debate. We need threaded format to debate. If there was a threaded format (we used to have a thread view, it didn't hold enough lines to show where you were in the whole thread, but at least it was a threaded format, you could debate with it) most of us humans, those of us capable of debating, would use it and debate would return. The debate is what draws in people, and draws back posters that have left. I'll bet you a hundred posters return to lurk every month and never bother to post... because there is no debate that they can join. Debate is how the forum clicks. Threads enable debate.

The bots are just more of the underlying problem... no debate.

If admin has no experience debating in a threaded format, then they don't know what I'm talking about, right?

 

[Jen]

the bots are here to push political propaganda for the political machines that empower them... debate is not possible, they are not capable of debate. They run scripts, they have billions of scripts and they are very clever at choosing what to toss up for each post, they have logic circuits and they are fully enabled with ego-busters for humans. But none of that is debate. You need a human heart to debate.

What happens here, happens too often here, is just plain argument and insults. When posters can no longer debate an issue, we get frustrated, pissed off, and fire back at the bots or even at other posters. The mods try to put out all the fires, but the underlying problem is still there, so it repeats. The forum is for debate.

I tried to tell these admins the same as I tried to tell the admin back at Slate. The forum is for debate. We need threaded format to debate. If there was a threaded format (we used to have a thread view, it didn't hold enough lines to show where you were in the whole thread, but at least it was a threaded format, you could debate with it) most of us humans, those of us capable of debating, would use it and debate would return. The debate is what draws in people, and draws back posters that have left. I'll bet you a hundred posters return to lurk every month and never bother to post... because there is no debate that they can join. Debate is how the forum clicks. Threads enable debate.

The bots are just more of the underlying problem... no debate.

If admin has no experience debating in a threaded format, then they don't know what I'm talking about, right?

I miss the threaded view. And I agree that it's needed. When Dave owned the board and took the format to Xen foro, we told him that we needed threaded view as an option and he said that this format (that copies a post when you click "reply" to that post) would suffice. We fought it..........but he owned the board so ultimately we got what he wanted.

SW just took what he was handed and I doubt he will change formats. I don't know if Xen foro has a format with the threaded option.

If posters would reply directly to each post they want to address, the system would sort of work, but that doesn't always happen. Many times the poster will just go to the bottom and make a reply.

But just saying, Days, threaded doesn't fix things perfectly. On the other board where I post, threaded view is an option. Many posters still go to the bottom and post so it's impossible to know who they are talking to because it is not on the right thread. Sometimes when I want to post to the OP, I get things messed up and find I have posted to someone below the OP so my perfectly threaded post is in the wrong place.

Things will never be perfect.

 

[Jen]

Every member, active and not, of any political stripe, is free to post here.

I, for one, wish they would.

This board is more conducive to posters with all views than most are. For all my complaints, it's a good board.

 

[Days]

I miss the threaded view. And I agree that it's needed. When Dave owned the board and took the format to Xen foro, we told him that we needed threaded view as an option and he said that this format (that copies a post when you click "reply" to that post) would suffice. We fought it..........but he owned the board so ultimately we got what he wanted.

SW just took what he was handed and I doubt he will change formats. I don't know if Xen foro has a format with the threaded option.

If posters would reply directly to each post they want to address, the system would sort of work, but that doesn't always happen. Many times the poster will just go to the bottom and make a reply.

But just saying, Days, threaded doesn't fix things perfectly. On the other board where I post, threaded view is an option. Many posters still go to the bottom and post so it's impossible to know who they are talking to because it is not on the right thread. Sometimes when I want to post to the OP, I get things messed up and find I have posted to someone below the OP so my perfectly threaded post is in the wrong place.

Things will never be perfect.

I was in on the debate with Dave and when he decided to drop the threaded view for a format that was better technology - that's when I left the forum for a couple of years. I came back when I realized how improved the posting tools had become and that if I hit reply to a post - instead of just posting at the bottom of a page - the post I was replying to showed up in my response... at least that's something... if another poster wants to debate something, it is possible. hard, because you have to sort through the rest of the thread, and harder yet for someone else to follow just viewing the thread, but there it is.

we are going to live with the bots, you know that. We have been posting amongst bots since our days on the fray. It amazes me that some posters don't know about them. Admin still pretends they aren't there, which is ridiculous, the whole world knows about them. My son had me watch a great video that tried to explain how the bots create new bots... it's an amazing process.

debate is crucial. debate is what the forum is all about. My whole obsession with threaded view is simply to give us a better format for debate. It takes a lot more than a canvas and an easel and an oil set and brushes to make a painting, but it is damn hard to make one without those. We've got some pretty good painters in this crowd, but very few good paintings happening.

 

[Jen]

I was in on the debate with Dave and when he decided to drop the threaded view for a format that was better technology - that's when I left the forum for a couple of years. I came back when I realized how improved the posting tools had become and that if I hit reply to a post - instead of just posting at the bottom of a page - the post I was replying to showed up in my response... at least that's something... if another poster wants to debate something, it is possible. hard, because you have to sort through the rest of the thread, and harder yet for someone else to follow just viewing the thread, but there it is.

we are going to live with the bots, you know that. We have been posting amongst bots since our days on the fray. It amazes me that some posters don't know about them. Admin still pretends they aren't there, which is ridiculous, the whole world knows about them. My son had me watch a great video that tried to explain how the bots create new bots... it's an amazing process.

debate is crucial. debate is what the forum is all about. My whole obsession with threaded view is simply to give us a better format for debate. It takes a lot more than a canvas and an easel and an oil set and brushes to make a painting, but it is damn hard to make one without those. We've got some pretty good painters in this crowd, but very few good paintings happening.

Just one more thing, @Days .
There was a person who used to post here. I won't name names..... that doesn't matter. But that poster made a huge number of posts. Huge. He led anyone he posted with into circular arguments that had no end. He never talked about his personal life, he alluded to where he lived, but there were never any references to it as if he considered it to be "home". He was even a moderator here. Behind the scenes, in the Mod Forum....... he never said anything that made him a person to his fellow moderators. Never that I can remember.

He announced one day that he was leaving PJ and he did that and has never been back. I see him posting on another forum (that shall not be named).

I have always wondered if he was just a bot. Most of us who have posted to each other for 10+ years have said something that shows our humanity. When a poster never does that and seems not to have even an inkling of an answer to questions about it........ it leads to real questioning of whether or not they are human.

 

[Days]

Just one more thing, @Days .
There was a person who used to post here. I won't name names..... that doesn't matter. But that poster made a huge number of posts. Huge. He led anyone he posted with into circular arguments that had no end. He never talked about his personal life, he alluded to where he lived, but there were never any references to it as if he considered it to be "home". He was even a moderator here. Behind the scenes, in the Mod Forum....... he never said anything that made him a person to his fellow moderators. Never that I can remember.

He announced one day that he was leaving PJ and he did that and has never been back. I see him posting on another forum (that shall not be named).

I have always wondered if he was just a bot. Most of us who have posted to each other for 10+ years have said something that shows our humanity. When a poster never does that and seems not to have even an inkling of an answer to questions about it........ it leads to real questioning of whether or not they are human.

I'll post with the bots, I always had the view that each post is it's own mini-essay and is addressed to the planet at large, not just the nic being responded to. Of course, that's not how we really post, we get personal and we make quick sillies and one word replies all the time, but my posting philosophy says it shouldn't matter who you are posting with, because you are posting your opinion for everyone to read.

But when it comes to having a genuine debate... and those are the best posts... it really helps to have a threaded view and you need at least two debate-worthy humans in the game.

 

[Queen Titania]

I have wonder what happened to democrats and liberals as well. They seem to have disappeared from the party. I suppose maybe they evolved or should I say devolved into the hysterical leftists that now dominate the party.

But ALL of them??

I think a lot of them have walked away. Certainly more than the resistance media will admit or report on.

Fear - they have gone out of the fear of being ostracised and therefore dare not think about anything freely or deeply - they have become afraid of their own thoughts.