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Tea Party Family Strife

Arkady

President
Salon.com is featuring a story by someone whose far-right uncle freaked out when she politely asked to be taken off a mailing list that had resulted in her receiving hateful right-wing rhetoric:

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/22/my_tea_party_uncle_turned_on_me_the_personal_tale_of_a_close_texas_family/

Ordinarily, I'd assume there was more to the story than that, except I experienced something somewhat similar. A few years back, my family was fairly close to the family of one of my cousins. We'd grown close because we'd each had daughters born within a few weeks of each other. The wives shared mommy advice and the kids shared play-dates, and on Facebook there was a regular exchange of photos of our babies. Each little girl came to think of the other as her best friend. But, in addition, there was also a steady stream of right-wing propaganda coming our way. These people hated Obama in a disturbingly personal way, loved their guns with a totemic intensity, and were certain that everyone who wasn't a mainline Christian was going straight to a well-deserved hell -- especially gays, socialists, Muslims, and liberals.

Mostly, I just ignored that stuff. I'm not terribly active on Facebook -- I have sites like this on which to vent my politics, so I vent to strangers, rather than causing problems in the family. It's not a big deal if I piss off someone here, whereas if someone pisses off a member of the extended family, its sets off waves of animosity from aunt to aunt, cousin to cousin. Thanks to my general silence on political issues, most of my relatives assume I'm conservative: I'm a middle-aged, married, able-bodied, natural-born-citizen white guy with a kid, working in a straight-laced job, with a good income, and raised in a conservative Catholic family. I'd also indulged in plenty of "redneck" pastimes with my family, like shooting and camping. So, assuming I was a fellow conservative wasn't a bad bet. And because they assumed they were talking to a "fellow traveler," I got exposed to pretty unvarnished conservatism from my relatives. Generally, I didn't say much, other than to make extremely mild comments to indicate I didn't agree, like "I don't know about that."

Anyway, at one point I finally spoke up on Facebook, in reply to one of my cousins' conservative diatribes (about guns). I was mild about it -- nothing like I am here. I simply said that they had some of their facts wrong, and linked to a Snopes page that explained the error. That was it. But that's all it took. The cousin and his wife "defriended" us on Facebook, as did his mother. The last thing they sent said that they feel sorry for my family and that they would pray that I saw the light before it was too late. Then they cut off contact. My closest cousin became my most distant one, overnight, and nothing has changed in the year and a half since then, despite my attempt to be friendly at a family event.

I'm puzzled by that kind of intense reaction against even the mildest refusal to take conservative falsehood as gospel. I endure mountains of conservative propaganda, while doing my best to compartmentalize it from my feelings about the person. I figure we all have some weak points in our character, so if we were only friends with perfect people, we'd have no friends at all. But some conservatives I know have a real siege mentality, where the idea of being friendly with non-conservatives (or non-Christians, or non-heterosexuals) is treated like an existential threat to the entire edifice of their self definition. Maybe there's more to my story than I know. Maybe when I uncharacteristically talked back to the conservative propaganda, my cousin asked around about me and found out from some other relative that I was actually a left-leaning atheist, and that's why he and his wife freaked. But, even if that's the case, it doesn't really explain it. Why would it be so difficult to be friendly with a left-leaning atheist?
 

Colorforms

Senator
Salon.com is featuring a story by someone whose far-right uncle freaked out when she politely asked to be taken off a mailing list that had resulted in her receiving hateful right-wing rhetoric:

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/22/my_tea_party_uncle_turned_on_me_the_personal_tale_of_a_close_texas_family/

Ordinarily, I'd assume there was more to the story than that, except I experienced something somewhat similar. A few years back, my family was fairly close to the family of one of my cousins. We'd grown close because we'd each had daughters born within a few weeks of each other. The wives shared mommy advice and the kids shared play-dates, and on Facebook there was a regular exchange of photos of our babies. Each little girl came to think of the other as her best friend. But, in addition, there was also a steady stream of right-wing propaganda coming our way. These people hated Obama in a disturbingly personal way, loved their guns with a totemic intensity, and were certain that everyone who wasn't a mainline Christian was going straight to a well-deserved hell -- especially gays, socialists, Muslims, and liberals.

Mostly, I just ignored that stuff. I'm not terribly active on Facebook -- I have sites like this on which to vent my politics, so I vent to strangers, rather than causing problems in the family. It's not a big deal if I piss off someone here, whereas if someone pisses off a member of the extended family, its sets off waves of animosity from aunt to aunt, cousin to cousin. Thanks to my general silence on political issues, most of my relatives assume I'm conservative: I'm a middle-aged, married, able-bodied, natural-born-citizen white guy with a kid, working in a straight-laced job, with a good income, and raised in a conservative Catholic family. I'd also indulged in plenty of "redneck" pastimes with my family, like shooting and camping. So, assuming I was a fellow conservative wasn't a bad bet. And because they assumed they were talking to a "fellow traveler," I got exposed to pretty unvarnished conservatism from my relatives. Generally, I didn't say much, other than to make extremely mild comments to indicate I didn't agree, like "I don't know about that."

Anyway, at one point I finally spoke up on Facebook, in reply to one of my cousins' conservative diatribes (about guns). I was mild about it -- nothing like I am here. I simply said that they had some of their facts wrong, and linked to a Snopes page that explained the error. That was it. But that's all it took. The cousin and his wife "defriended" us on Facebook, as did his mother. The last thing they sent said that they feel sorry for my family and that they would pray that I saw the light before it was too late. Then they cut off contact. My closest cousin became my most distant one, overnight, and nothing has changed in the year and a half since then, despite my attempt to be friendly at a family event.

I'm puzzled by that kind of intense reaction against even the mildest refusal to take conservative falsehood as gospel. I endure mountains of conservative propaganda, while doing my best to compartmentalize it from my feelings about the person. I figure we all have some weak points in our character, so if we were only friends with perfect people, we'd have no friends at all. But some conservatives I know have a real siege mentality, where the idea of being friendly with non-conservatives (or non-Christians, or non-heterosexuals) is treated like an existential threat to the entire edifice of their self definition. Maybe there's more to my story than I know. Maybe when I uncharacteristically talked back to the conservative propaganda, my cousin asked around about me and found out from some other relative that I was actually a left-leaning atheist, and that's why he and his wife freaked. But, even if that's the case, it doesn't really explain it. Why would it be so difficult to be friendly with a left-leaning atheist?
My parents experienced something similar when they were visiting my uncle's house on the way down to Florida and made the mistake of criticizing one of Barry's initiatives. Guess what they were labeled.

Needless to say, they won't be visiting that uncle anytime soon.
 

Addy

Rebuild With Biden!
Interesting stories, thanks Arkady, political beliefs have apparently gone overboard and fractured the family unit in each story.

bigot
/ˈbɪɡət/
noun
1.
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race
 
amazingly though, the press is full of confirmation that it's actually the left that is "ruder" than the right, when it comes to intolerance. if you read more, you'd have encountered these articles; note that even NPR believes people on the left live in a bubble and are relatively more intolerant.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/349431/why-are-liberals-so-rude-right

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/24/video-are-liberals-less-tolerant-than-conservatives-on-line/comment-page-1/

http://theweek.com/article/index/264546/how-liberalism-became-an-intolerant-dogma

of course, if you want to see an example of poltical intolerance and action, you could actually turn to the recent Ferguson MO riots, arson, and car smashing, when the left was dissatisified with the pace of the FBI and Eric Holder's justice department investigation, and went on rampages night after night.
 

Zoar

Governor
Interesting stories, thanks Arkady, political beliefs have apparently gone overboard and fractured the family unit in each story.

bigot
/ˈbɪɡət/
noun
1.
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race

Indeed! Furthermore the Righties have been screaming that Obama has divided the country when in truth it is THEY who have divided the country unlike any other entity of source.

Just like they screamed and cried that Obama caused the ammo shortages. That is such bullshitt. It is the Righties who cased the shortages by preaching all their fear and warnings that Obama was going to take away ammo and guns so they reasoned they better BUY BUY BUY which caused all the shortages!
 

oicu812

"Trust, but Verify"
Salon.com is featuring a story by someone whose far-right uncle freaked out when she politely asked to be taken off a mailing list that had resulted in her receiving hateful right-wing rhetoric:

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/22/my_tea_party_uncle_turned_on_me_the_personal_tale_of_a_close_texas_family/

Ordinarily, I'd assume there was more to the story than that, except I experienced something somewhat similar. A few years back, my family was fairly close to the family of one of my cousins. We'd grown close because we'd each had daughters born within a few weeks of each other. The wives shared mommy advice and the kids shared play-dates, and on Facebook there was a regular exchange of photos of our babies. Each little girl came to think of the other as her best friend. But, in addition, there was also a steady stream of right-wing propaganda coming our way. These people hated Obama in a disturbingly personal way, loved their guns with a totemic intensity, and were certain that everyone who wasn't a mainline Christian was going straight to a well-deserved hell -- especially gays, socialists, Muslims, and liberals.

Mostly, I just ignored that stuff. I'm not terribly active on Facebook -- I have sites like this on which to vent my politics, so I vent to strangers, rather than causing problems in the family. It's not a big deal if I piss off someone here, whereas if someone pisses off a member of the extended family, its sets off waves of animosity from aunt to aunt, cousin to cousin. Thanks to my general silence on political issues, most of my relatives assume I'm conservative: I'm a middle-aged, married, able-bodied, natural-born-citizen white guy with a kid, working in a straight-laced job, with a good income, and raised in a conservative Catholic family. I'd also indulged in plenty of "redneck" pastimes with my family, like shooting and camping. So, assuming I was a fellow conservative wasn't a bad bet. And because they assumed they were talking to a "fellow traveler," I got exposed to pretty unvarnished conservatism from my relatives. Generally, I didn't say much, other than to make extremely mild comments to indicate I didn't agree, like "I don't know about that."

Anyway, at one point I finally spoke up on Facebook, in reply to one of my cousins' conservative diatribes (about guns). I was mild about it -- nothing like I am here. I simply said that they had some of their facts wrong, and linked to a Snopes page that explained the error. That was it. But that's all it took. The cousin and his wife "defriended" us on Facebook, as did his mother. The last thing they sent said that they feel sorry for my family and that they would pray that I saw the light before it was too late. Then they cut off contact. My closest cousin became my most distant one, overnight, and nothing has changed in the year and a half since then, despite my attempt to be friendly at a family event.

I'm puzzled by that kind of intense reaction against even the mildest refusal to take conservative falsehood as gospel. I endure mountains of conservative propaganda, while doing my best to compartmentalize it from my feelings about the person. I figure we all have some weak points in our character, so if we were only friends with perfect people, we'd have no friends at all. But some conservatives I know have a real siege mentality, where the idea of being friendly with non-conservatives (or non-Christians, or non-heterosexuals) is treated like an existential threat to the entire edifice of their self definition. Maybe there's more to my story than I know. Maybe when I uncharacteristically talked back to the conservative propaganda, my cousin asked around about me and found out from some other relative that I was actually a left-leaning atheist, and that's why he and his wife freaked. But, even if that's the case, it doesn't really explain it. Why would it be so difficult to be friendly with a left-leaning atheist?
you mixed family with politics and religon..you knew their take on those, yet chose to challenge them..your choice...did you expect something different? did you expect them to say
"gee, i never thought of it that way, you are so right, im gonna change my convictions"? they are your family,,you should know them and their likely response..you chose to ignore what you knew and have at it anyway...a wise man would have recognized and anticapted their response..you did not..i can only assume you wanted to sever ties with them because of your beliefs..you were successful in that regard..be happy...
 

Arkady

President
amazingly though, the press is full of confirmation that it's actually the left that is "ruder" than the right, when it comes to intolerance. if you read more, you'd have encountered these articles; note that even NPR believes people on the left live in a bubble and are relatively more intolerant.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/349431/why-are-liberals-so-rude-right

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/24/video-are-liberals-less-tolerant-than-conservatives-on-line/comment-page-1/

http://theweek.com/article/index/264546/how-liberalism-became-an-intolerant-dogma

of course, if you want to see an example of poltical intolerance and action, you could actually turn to the recent Ferguson MO riots, arson, and car smashing, when the left was dissatisified with the pace of the FBI and Eric Holder's justice department investigation, and went on rampages night after night.
Where is the link to NPR?
 

Arkady

President
you mixed family with politics and religon..you knew their take on those, yet chose to challenge them..your choice...did you expect something different?
Yes, I did. They were nice people in "real life" -- as long as you avoid any topic involving economics, politics, religion, or race. So, when one of them posted something that was simply and verifiably factually incorrect, I figured that he'd just take the new information on board and refine his position to say more or less the same thing without relying on plainly incorrect assertions.

This wouldn't necessarily bug me with some of my relatives. If they're insistent on playing the part of hard-core conservatives, I can happily spar with them, and if they cut me off as a result, no big loss. But with this family, our daughters and wives were close, so I was deliberately walking on egg-shells around them, to avoid creating friction (a courtesy I emphatically never got from them). When, nonetheless, even the slightest provocation set them off, it was genuinely surprising.
 

oicu812

"Trust, but Verify"
Yes, I did. They were nice people in "real life" -- as long as you avoid any topic involving economics, politics, religion, or race. So, when one of them posted something that was simply and verifiably factually incorrect, I figured that he'd just take the new information on board and refine his position to say more or less the same thing without relying on plainly incorrect assertions.

This wouldn't necessarily bug me with some of my relatives. If they're insistent on playing the part of hard-core conservatives, I can happily spar with them, and if they cut me off as a result, no big loss. But with this family, our daughters and wives were close, so I was deliberately walking on egg-shells around them, to avoid creating friction (a courtesy I emphatically never got from them). When, nonetheless, even the slightest provocation set them off, it was genuinely surprising.
so you knew ahead of time your beliefs were contrary to theirs,,but you chose to instigate a response anyway..

your choice,,your actions, your responsible now for any unhappines your family is now experiencing..

a wise man would have ignored their beliefs in favor of maintaining a family unit that was more important to your wife and children than your obsession with pointing out their flaws..

you made the choice for your family..a choice i bet they wish you hadnt.
 

Colorforms

Senator
so you knew ahead of time your beliefs were contrary to theirs,,but you chose to instigate a response anyway..

your choice,,your actions, your responsible now for any unhappines your family is now experiencing..

a wise man would have ignored their beliefs in favor of maintaining a family unit that was more important to your wife and children than your obsession with pointing out their flaws..

you made the choice for your family..a choice i bet they wish you hadnt.
Or, as in the case with my parents, kept their judgments to themselves. My parents were actually planning on spending the night there, but after being accused of being racists, my mom insisted that they find a motel for the night. Naturally, my aunt and uncle were insulted that my parents went somewhere else, as if calling someone a racist is just what you do and it shouldn't be taken offensively.

Some people just don't take being talked down to very well.
 

Zoar

Governor
you mixed family with politics and religon..you knew their take on those, yet chose to challenge them..your choice...did you expect something different? did you expect them to say
"gee, i never thought of it that way, you are so right, im gonna change my convictions"? they are your family,,you should know them and their likely response..you chose to ignore what you knew and have at it anyway...a wise man would have recognized and anticapted their response..you did not..i can only assume you wanted to sever ties with them because of your beliefs..you were successful in that regard..be happy...
Typical. Turn it all upside down and blame Ark instead of the bigotry, hatred and lies and insanity of the people who post bigotry, hatred and lies.

You would sit back and do NOTHING only because you agree with the bigotry, hatred and lies.

Jesus and other great leaders advise to speak up against such things.
 

oicu812

"Trust, but Verify"
Typical. Turn it all upside down and blame Ark instead of the bigotry, hatred and lies and insanity of the people who post bigotry, hatred and lies.

You would sit back and do NOTHING only because you agree with the bigotry, hatred and lies.

Jesus and other great leaders advise to speak up against such things.
you are an idiot,,you know that dont you?
 

Zoar

Governor
so you knew ahead of time your beliefs were contrary to theirs,,but you chose to instigate a response anyway..

your choice,,your actions, your responsible now for any unhappines your family is now experiencing..

a wise man would have ignored their beliefs in favor of maintaining a family unit that was more important to your wife and children than your obsession with pointing out their flaws..

you made the choice for your family..a choice i bet they wish you hadnt.

Wow, despite the facts and what Ark wrote about him only ONE time speaking up at all, YOU chose to mischaracterize it completely and YOU chose to grossly exaggerate how Ark has dealt with these bigot/racsist/xenophobes/haters and YOU chose to lie about the entire scenario. I am glad you do not write history books. The south would have won in your version!
 

Arkady

President
so you knew ahead of time your beliefs were contrary to theirs,,but you chose to instigate a response anyway..

your choice,,your actions, your responsible now for any unhappines your family is now experiencing..

a wise man would have ignored their beliefs in favor of maintaining a family unit that was more important to your wife and children than your obsession with pointing out their flaws..

you made the choice for your family..a choice i bet they wish you hadnt.
I responded in a way that I believed was reserved and mild enough that it wouldn't cause problems. I overestimated my cousin and his wife. I frequently do that with conservatives.
 

oicu812

"Trust, but Verify"
Wow, despite the facts and what Ark wrote about him only ONE time speaking up at all, YOU chose to mischaracterize it completely and YOU chose to grossly exaggerate how Ark has dealt with these bigot/racsist/xenophobes/haters and YOU chose to lie about the entire scenario. I am glad you do not write history books. The south would have won in your version!
still the idiot i see,,,a wise man would have kept his mouth shut for the sake of his wife and children,,i suspect you would have done as ark did...no surprise there...
 

Zoar

Governor
well yes, on that i agree...
You do know what the word "unreasonable" means, right? You do post in such a manner to an alarming degree.

And being unreasonable is precisely what ARK was stating about regarding these uber Conservative Bigots/Racists.

Being unreasonable seems t be a trait of the current "Conservatives/Righties.
 
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oicu812

"Trust, but Verify"
I responded in a way that I believed was reserved and mild enough that it wouldn't cause problems. I overestimated my cousin and his wife. I frequently do that with conservatives.
perhaps you have learned something then that most people knew..that mixing politics, religon and family rarely ends well...
 
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