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The Death of the Electric Car

Discussion in 'Economics, Business, and Taxes' started by justoffal, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. justoffal

    justoffal Senator

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    The only hope for the electric car in the future is the return of massive power plants like Nuclear and Coal for instance....driving down the KWH costs to somewhere below six cents per. You can't overcome the laws of thermodynamics. It is not possible to build a portable power plant powerful enough to be on four wheels and economical at the same time. The only venue is hydrocarbon combustion and using a byproduct of that ( electricity ) only inflates the deficiencies of the original product.

    Sure you could put more batteries in it..but that makes it heavier and likely to use a lot more power to drive it. It's the bootstrap law....you can try all day long but you'll never get your feet off the ground.

    There is some hope on the Horizon with the French Breakthroughs in Fusion power...if they can pull off a prototype the returns are said to be nearly unlimited! Imagine your electric bill being chopped down to ten percent! Yep..that's how promising that technology is. But then there might be a reason to fear it too...it will destroy the oil industry and the hydrocarbon industry at large. I don't mind...but they might.

    Here is an excellent article finally and courageously exposing the sheer lunacy of the electric vehicle as an alternative for the Gas Vehicle...

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...campaign=Feed:+BigGovernment+(Big+Government)

    President Barack Obama has said that upon leaving office after his second term, he plans on buying an electric Chevy Volt.

    But according to the Lundberg Survey, the price of a gallon of gas would need to rise to $12.50 before the Volt would be cost-effective for consumers. The reason: before government subsidies, the Chevy Volt costs roughly $40,000.

    The Nissan Leaf fared little better. Gas would need to skyrocket to $8.53 a gallon in order for the Leaf to be economically competitive, "based on the cost of gasoline versus electricity, fuel efficiency and depreciation."

    Mr. Obama has set a goal of having one million electric battery-powered vehicles on American roads by 2015, but experts predict the actual number will be less than 200,000, due to low consumer demand. By 2017, Edmunds predicts that "pure electric cars and plug-in hybrids to make up only 1.5 percent of the U.S. market in 2017, compared with 0.1 percent last year," a projection that, while lackluster, some experts believe is overly optimistic.

    Still, Mr. Obama wants to raise the taxpayer-funded subsidies for electric vehicles from $7,500 to $10,000.Beyond the consumer "rebates," taxpayers have seen millions of their dollars wasted in the form of federal grants:

    Meanwhile, several companies have struggled due to lack of funding or customer troubles.

    A123 Systems posted a wider-than-expected fourth-quarter loss this month after Fisker, one of its largest customers, cut battery orders. Bright Automotive, an Indiana electric commercial truck start-up, closed its doors in February after failing to get a federal loan.

    Ener1 Inc, which received a $118.5 million federal grant to make lithium-ion batteries for EVs, filed for bankruptcy in January, and Aptera Motors, a California-based EV start-up, went out of business last December after it couldn't raise $80 million in private funding.

    For these reasons and more, Bob Martin, a senior consultant to The CarLab, says the viability of electric cars remain largely a mirage: "It's been the Kool-Aid that the entire political system has been drinking for a decade. Electric cars are not ready for prime time. They're really interesting toys for very, very rich people."

     
  2. gabriel

    gabriel Governor

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    the unit cost of the electric car will fall drastically with increased production volume. and if you think youre gonna get by without huge increases in nuclear generation, youre crazy.
     
  3. Old Ridge Runner

    Old Ridge Runner Mayor

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    With the electric car the left has verified one thing for the right. The left doesn't know their asses from a hole in the ground.
     
  4. gabriel

    gabriel Governor

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    wow! what an imaginative post! lol
     
  5. fairsheet

    fairsheet Senator

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    The top-poster's angle is sophomoric, propagandistic drivel. He should be ashamed to've been duped into respewing it, but evidently he's not.

    For a quick and easy primer as to the fundaments he's been caused to ignore, I'd recommend one fun little article. It can be found in "Motor Trend (8/11) and is called, "Green Warriors: Prius Battles Volt and Leaf".

    Now to qualify, this particular test goes specifically to the relative "greeness" of these three technologies more so than their comparative costs per mile. BUT...the same factors can be applied to the same measures. And, what they found out was that where people live and how they drive, are key. As just one for instance, the driver living in the hydro-power PNW, who drives less than 80 miles per day, would be money AND green ahead driving the pure electric Leaf, as compared with any other available technology. And...similar cases for other places and driving styles, can be made for the other two technologies.

    So....where did the poor top-poster allow himself to be spun off into the weeds? It's simple. The screeders to whom he's limited his echo-chamberism, specifically base their conclusions on the worst possible case for electric auto technology. YET, only a small percentage of the total American driving public, actually fits that small demographic.
     
  6. justoffal

    justoffal Senator

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    Hmmm....

    I think we are going to need at least 100 nuke plants of 2500 megawatts or better in the very least within then next fifteen years or we are going to be reading books by candlelight. I'd like to see approximately 250 in that time frame but frankly I'm not sure we can afford to build them.

    Fusion looks promising...but it's still a long way off.

    Cost of production is not the problem with the electric car. The laws of thermodynamics are the problem. They tend to be remarkably stubborn.
     
  7. justoffal

    justoffal Senator

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    Hmm...you are an uneducated Goofball...

    Once you get you're writing straightened out...do some time with the rules and laws of physics and thermodynamics.

    One of the more relevant concepts as it applies to electric vehicles is the concept of Entropy.

    Chew on that for a while but don't break any teeth.

    so yeah.....you come up with the massive scientific solution of moving closer to your job? Bwahahaha... way to go!
     
  8. justoffal

    justoffal Senator

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    Yep...even an eighteenth century farmer knew that his horse couldn't jump up into the wagon and still pull it. But noooo...not our beloved liberals...because the thing is politically correct the rules of physics and science no longer apply.
     
  9. fairsheet

    fairsheet Senator

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    A 6th-grade science student who'd just been introduced to the concept of "entropy", might be inclined to feeling that he'd just discovered "THE" answer to this incredibly complex question. But...by the 7th-grade, he'd probably have figured out that he was only 1% of the way there.

    Of course though - with 300+ million of us afoot, there'll always be a market for shills interested in profitting from the willing ignorance of a few.
     
  10. justoffal

    justoffal Senator

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    Sixth grade...I think not.... but that's not important..

    Threre are no gen sets more efficient than 65%.....Fact
    Line losses are massive even with super conductors...Fact
    Charging losses are at a minimum 10%...Fact
    Battery losses...cold weather losses....

    Sure...the electric car can have a place in a world that restructures to make them usable...but they are a symphony of wastefulness and this can never be changed.

    Hydrocarbon combustion as bad as it is....will always be more efficient....and to date I see no convincing reason to abandon it. Unless of course you call ignorance knowledge.
     
  11. JackDallas

    JackDallas Senator Supporting Member

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    Then it's curtains for the Obama Edsel, right?
     
  12. OldGaffer

    OldGaffer Governor

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    The new 2013 Malibu uses regenerative braking to charge its battery pack, no plug in at all, gets 37 mpg highway and has good power and acceleration. GM is going to do a "light hybrid" on most of their cars in the next few years, it should raise gas mileage a minimum of 10 mpg across the board. We can still use gasoline, we just need to use less of it per mile traveled. If I am going to spend 50 bucks to fill my tank, I like the idea of getting 500 miles out of that gas raTHER than 250, how about you?
     
  13. fairsheet

    fairsheet Senator

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    So Gaffer....what've you got on the diesel GM's gonna put in the Cruze? Is there anything you can share at this point?
     
  14. jammer

    jammer Mayor

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    You lost all credibility when you linked to WWW.breitbart.com. The lying bastrudo is dead and roasting in hell where he belongs.
     
  15. MaryAnne

    MaryAnne Governor

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    FYI,I drove a Volt a coupke of weeks ago and the minute I laid eyes on the car,I fell in love with it.

    You can get a kit installed at your house for $250 to cut the charging time in half. And,even when the Volt switches over to gas, it is not really running on gas, it is simply charging the battery. Like all things the price will come down, but I can tell you, the Volt is one great car and well worth the extra money!.

    Amd take it from me, I have been a GM lover since my first brand new 1957 Chevy Impala. I moved on to the bigger cars over the years, but that Volt is something else, and that is just the beginning.
     
  16. MaryAnne

    MaryAnne Governor

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    One finger pointing,3 pointing back! What is with you guys? Everything is turned into a right/ left thing. Do you ever think of us as Americans? You are scared of your own shadow. Fox likes it that way! Boo!
     
  17. oicu812

    oicu812 "Trust, but Verify"

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    maryann, did you ever figure out who changed the thread about zimmerman to the dead kid?
     
  18. oicu812

    oicu812 "Trust, but Verify"

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    you guys do know we had electric cars in the late 1890s..
     
  19. OldGaffer

    OldGaffer Governor

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    And we had steam powered cars as well, and?
     
  20. MaryAnne

    MaryAnne Governor

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    The new little Cruze is a completely resigned car, but is too small for me. I see Buick has a new one too.
     

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