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The death of the middle class...

Discussion in 'Economics, Business, and Taxes' started by Corruptbuddha, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. Corruptbuddha

    Corruptbuddha Governor

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    ...

    I am amazed to still see the lefties on this and other boards rabidly supporting higher taxes on the 'rich' as though it is some sort of weapon in the war on the middle class.

    Listen up folks, you could raise the taxes of everyone making $1 million a year to 100% and still not be able to save the middle class and turn this economy around.

    Quite simply, the reason the middle class is dying has nothing to do with how much Mitt Romney, Warren Buffet and Paris Hilton made or paid last year but has everything to do with the type of economy we now participate in.

    Over a century ago, the US moved from an agrarian economy (based on agriculture) to an economy based on manufacture. Through the next few decades we found that through our innovation, our drive to excel and our hard work, we had built perhaps the strongest, most productive and wealthiest middle class the world had ever seen.

    Somewhere in the late 20th century, however, that economy once again underwent a metamorphosis and evolved into an economy based on services. The high skill - high pay jobs that our grandparents built a life on disappeared to be replaced with lower paying jobs flipping burgers and cleaning pools.

    What was the progenitor of the loss of those jobs? Outsourcing.
    Since 1994, according to the AFL/CIO, over 3 million manufacturing jobs and at least 600,000 professional services and IT jobs have fled our shores. And it's not only the private sector that has embraced this job killing trend. "At least forty states contract out administration of electronic benefit cards for the food stamps program offshore. In one audit, the state of Washington found 36 out of 41 agencies were contracting out work overseas." So, in addition to well paying manufacturing, professional and IT jobs, we are also losing mid-range public sector jobs as well.

    And, according to a study by the University of Berkeley, this trend looks to accelerate as the study finds that 14 MILLION jobs are at risk for outsourcing.

    And now, to make matters worse, the very service industry upon which our anemic economy is now based, is outsourcing at a breakneck (literally) pace. Not to mention that many, many of the lower paying service jobs (again, the bulk of American jobs in total) are now being filled by immigrants both legal and (more numerous) illegal.

    And, here's the rub; these jobs, left to their own devices, will never come back to our shores. Unless this outsourcing trend is stopped, they are gone for good.


    The loss of those jobs, besides taking away to real wealth and spending power of a vibrant middle class, is also a catalyst for another trend we're seeing. Namely, the loss of tax revenue.

    If you don't have a job that pays a good wage, you don't pay as much in taxes. As a matter of fact, some 46% of Americans pay ZERO federal and state income taxes. And most of that 46% actually receive a subsidy in the form of 'tax credits' that turns their tax liability into a tax windfall.

    So, what is the latest plan to stop this outsourcing? In his recent State of the Union speech, President Obama proposed to 'stop rewarding businesses that ship jobs overseas, and start rewarding companies that create jobs right here in America' through the liberal application of tax breaks. A minor, if not insignificant, action that would, at best prevent some serviced based outsourcing, but would do little if anything to stop manufacturing outsourcing as the amount of the 'tax breaks' would just be too great to compensate for the increase in labor costs.

    Not only that, but it will add to the already stifling national debt.


    Now many of you are probably wondering what my solution to this issue is. The truth be told, I don't have one. I can not divine a mechanism that will magically lower the cost of labor in the US, while simultaneously increasing the cost of producing overseas. And that, I fear, is the only thing that will reverse this trend. Why would any business willingly pay more to produce a product in the US and sell it at a lower profit, when they can manufacture overseas, import it to American shores and sell it with a tidier bottom line?

    Answer, they won't.

    So, as you can see, the issue of this economy has little to nothing to do with the amount of taxes that any one group of American's pay but rather the downsizing, quite literally, of the core of the American society, the middle class.
     
  2. mark14

    mark14 Council Member

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    I'm tempted to report you you for breaking this rule with you tedious unattributed cut and paste

    "- If you copy an article from another website there must be a source provided. Entire articles are not allowed to be pasted, and you must make a comment on the article when you paste it."

    but instead I think you might want to report me for this

    " -Self moderating publicly is not allowed. If you see a problem with a post calling them out on the forums is against the rules. Rather click the "report post" button on the bottom left of their post and submit it to the admins for review."

    But I would never make a personal comment on the intellect or ethics of plagiarists because to do so would violate this rule

    "-Refrain from name calling and attacking the poster. If you are reported you will most likely receive an infraction or a warning. Just comment on the POST, not the POSTER."

    and I'm sure you didn't really expect us to think you capable of writing, or even understanding, what you posted.

    but if I don't do/say anything then I'm in violation of this one

    "-Don't take things too serious! Just have fun, post your opinions, maybe sway some Americans to your side of the fence, and earn some Jack Bucks along the way!"

    because where is the joy in just asking for your nonsense to go away when it is so much more fun to ridicule it as it, not of course you, so justly deserves?

    Oh. I forgot to respond to your cut and paste. Well 'the economic policy of the George W. Bush administration was a combination of tax cuts, expenditures for fighting two wars, and a free-market ideology intended to de-emphasize the role of government in the private sector..."

    Aw let's stop the pretending http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_George_W._Bush_administration
     
  3. Lapcat

    Lapcat Governor

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    It's the deliberate murder of the middle class, CB. It's all part of the plan, agenda and leftist ploy to destroy America so they can 'remake' it into their image of a socialist (commie w/a smiley face) utopia with them in complete/total control, of course.

    As usual, they vastly underestimate those pesky Americans.
     
  4. Corruptbuddha

    Corruptbuddha Governor

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    I beg your pardon?

    This was no cut and past, but rather an original composition in which I used links and quotes....and where I quoted, I USED QUOTES FROM THE LINKS I PROVIDED.

    Was it your intent to impugn my writing ability or merely insult my intelligence?
     
  5. Corruptbuddha

    Corruptbuddha Governor

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    It seems that no one 'gets it'.

    Unless we restore the middle class, not massive wealth distribution but with stable, well paying jobs, neither 'side' will win.

    For, if the middle class loses, America loses.

    It appears to me that we're yelling at each other over the symptoms rather than looking together for a cure for the disease.
     
  6. kgswiger

    kgswiger Council Member

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    I don't think this is a C&P. CB and I don't agree all that often, but he's a reasonably intelligent guy (sometimes, anyways :)) and I can see him writing this.
     
  7. Corruptbuddha

    Corruptbuddha Governor

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    I thank you for the support, but I don't think Mark actually believes this to be a C&P. I think it makes so much sense it just blew one of his gaskets and he attacked me rather than the actual post.

    Many folks here can't help it, it's in their genetic makeup.
     
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  8. kgswiger

    kgswiger Council Member

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    Oh, I didn't say it made sense. :)
     
  9. Corruptbuddha

    Corruptbuddha Governor

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    It does,

    Do you have another theory as to why the middle class is shrinking? I'd love to hear it.
     
  10. 888888

    888888 Council Member

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    The problem corrupt is that the rich got rich because of the middle class, and now since the middle class have seen decline and the those at the top have been allowed to soar and suffer nothing is a direct cause of our nation not doing what is needed to keep the whole country on an even keel over the last 50 years.

    It is the job of our country to ensure we have a viable country where everyone has an opportunity to benefit from it, and the only real equalizer that is going to work is taxation. There has become too large of a divide between the top and the bottom because govt has not done their job. The people with money have bough the govt with large sums of money being spent on electing who they want and by lobbying for what they want. Govt has been bought and paid for by those who have money. These people have been able to benefit from this action 10 fold to what it took to get it done.

    Yes govt needs to make sure that this nation stays somewhat equal, and this is not being done right now.
     
  11. 888888

    888888 Council Member

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    You ever thought about a job as a revisionist Lapcat, you are very good at it.
     
  12. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

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    Yes, Obama's "solution" is just more central planning by the Kenyan Kommisar. That will just lead to fewer jobs and less wealth over time. One solution is to stop demonizing the wealthy. The more of them we have the more jobs there will be here as the wealth of the nation continues to grow. Another is to shrink the size of government. The onerous levels of tax laws and regulatory red tape siphons off our efficiencies - we can compete better if we have more economic freedom. Big corporations are insulated from start up competition by all the expense associated with big government. Start ups have less incentive and ability to outsource overseas than megacorps. A third thing we could do is be more welcoming of immigrants. They help grow the economy and will tend to be younger and can help us with our "legacy costs" of the social welfare system covering the baby boomers.
     
  13. Corruptbuddha

    Corruptbuddha Governor

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    And what is your proposal to achieve this 'even keel'?

    Confiscatory taxation? Cradle to grave welfare?

    Or would you rather, as I would, see a robust, vibrant middle class rebuilt with skilled, good paying jobs?

    As I see it, we have but two choices. Either we go the liberal way and tax the rich out of existence, thereby insuring equal misery, or putting an end to the outsourcing craze by taxing the companies that benefit from it. Potentially pushing them out of the US altogether.

    Neither is an enticing prospect.
     
  14. Corruptbuddha

    Corruptbuddha Governor

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    While I agree that demonizing the wealthy is a road to nowhere, I fail to see how merely leaving the free market to it's own devices will bring these lost jobs back. In my mind we need to leave these 'free trade' associations and place taxes on goods produced by American companies in foreign factories.

    A tough row to hoe, I'll admit. But imminently necessary.
     
  15. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

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    I didn't say it would CB. I agree with you that they aren't coming back (although some might if we had a more free market economy and less government induced overhead). Do you really think a protectionist trade policy would help our economy? Would the developing nations (that have a burgeoning middle class counted in billions that could buy Allstate Insurance and ipads and watch our Hollywood movies as they become more affluent) not retaliate? Are you aware that most (serious) economists point to Smoot Hawley trade legislation as the catalyst for our great depression? The only thing that is "imminently necessary" is shrinking government and defending the value of the dollar.
     
  16. mark14

    mark14 Council Member

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    I was wrong and apologize. It certainly has the style of so much of the vacuous right wing talking point cut and paste stuff floating about on the internets but on further review a link to the "University of Berkley" that sends you to "United Methodist Women" which contains a report on "Outsourcing of Jobs. by Washington DC Office of Public Policy" is consistent with your writing.

    Of course your observations that "If you don't have a job that pays a good wage, you don't pay as much in taxes. As a matter of fact, some 46% of Americans pay ZERO federal and state income taxes. And most of that 46% actually receive a subsidy in the form of 'tax credits' that turns their tax liability into a tax windfall.","many, many of the lower paying service jobs (again, the bulk of American jobs in total) are now being filled by immigrants both legal and (more numerous) illegal.", "to 'stop rewarding businesses that ship jobs overseas, and start rewarding companies that create jobs right here in America' through the liberal application of tax breaks.(is) A minor, if not insignificant, action..." which "Not only that, but it will add to the already stifling national debt." "So, as you can see, the issue of this economy has little to nothing to do with the amount of taxes that any one group of American's pay but rather the downsizing, quite literally, of the core of the American society, the middle class." and "Now many of you are probably wondering what my solution to this issue is. The truth be told, I don't have one." were all so familiar in content and style that I mistakenly jumped to an erroneous conclusion.

    So where did you quote your links without attribution?

    Both.
     
  17. mark14

    mark14 Council Member

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    I agree with you that trade wars would be a disaster but there have to be some protections and rules against excessive cheating. Your sure seem pessimistic about America and with it, I think, the future of the world's economy. I still believe that it is morning on planet earth...
     
  18. mark14

    mark14 Council Member

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    Why this incessant "demonizing the wealthy" stuff? The wealthy clearly have and continue to thrived beyond all other groups in society and can therefore afford to pay more of the share and I would thank and value them for doing so.

    I agree there are problems with trade agreement and I would favor adjustments but didn't you say in your top post that you had no solutions?
     
  19. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

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    Only for those in a position to produce value and big government and vast social welfare and public works inhibits a nation's ability to do that. This isn't rocket science - it's econ 101...
     
  20. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

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    By taking 60 percent of everything they make at the federal level? LOL!
     
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