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the genesis of civilization

Winston

Do you feel lucky, Punk
I know you support the idea that it happened over a long time. It may well have. But it also could have happened quickly. Catastrophes do happen. I am not arguing either way, I am simply saying that it is still a question.
I went and read this knuckleheads first post and he is babbling that there were people 35 feet tall in the time of Noah. You are not helping anyone by supporting this schizophrenic, he needs to be medicated pronto. Sorry but that is just how it is, he rambles from 12000 years ago to 3 billion years ago as though they are related, they aren't, the only relation is a very distorted unorganized, word salad creating mind

Really
 

Days

Governor
In the Pliocene Epoch, 2.6 million years ago, the continents were very near their present positions and there was no ice cap.
No doubt the continents were close to where they are today, but pray tell, where did they get weather data from 2.6 million years ago? Even at 10C+ I don't think you eliminate the pole ice caps, shrink 'em, sure, but eliminate them? How much water would that have dumped into the oceans? 2000 feet? So, you are saying mean sea level was 2000 feet higher than it was 12,000 years ago?

Have you grasped the idea of Iceland being at the North pole?

I did the math in my sleep last night, if the net effect from the event 12,000 years ago was to dump 1/3 of an ice cap extra water into the oceans, and the mean sea level rose 400 feet, that means the old ice caps would have been 2 3/4 miles high. Now, all this happened. If you are arguing that there was more displacement in the Arctic ice cap, that just means that the ice caps would have had to be thicker. The mean sea level rose 350-400 feet, and the water came from the ice caps, so what are you preaching?
 

Winston

Do you feel lucky, Punk
No doubt the continents were close to where they are today, but pray tell, where did they get weather data from 2.6 million years ago? Even at 10C+ I don't think you eliminate the pole ice caps, shrink 'em, sure, but eliminate them? How much water would that have dumped into the oceans? 2000 feet? So, you are saying mean sea level was 2000 feet higher than it was 12,000 years ago?

Have you grasped the idea of Iceland being at the North pole?

I did the math in my sleep last night, if the net effect from the event 12,000 years ago was to dump 1/3 of an ice cap extra water into the oceans, and the mean sea level rose 400 feet, that means the old ice caps would have been 2 3/4 miles high. Now, all this happened. If you are arguing that there was more displacement in the Arctic ice cap, that just means that the ice caps would have had to be thicker. The mean sea level rose 350-400 feet, and the water came from the ice caps, so what are you preaching?
Actually since the arc is on mount ararat at 6500 feet you are saying that the water was at least 6500 feet higher then
Lol

Lol you do math while you sleep

Your math is called masterbating

What map of the pangea break up puts Iceland at the north pole
 
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Days

Governor
Actually since the arc is on mount ararat at 6500 feet you are saying that the water was at least 6500 feet higher then
Lol

Lol you do math while you sleep

Your math is called masterbating

What map of the pangea break up puts Iceland at the north pole
No, troll, you are saying that... I never said anything close.
You don't give up easily, do you?
 

Winston

Do you feel lucky, Punk
No, troll, you are saying that... I never said anything close.
You don't give up easily, do you?
You said there were 35 feet tall humans once. Do give us the science behind this, other than you saw the attack of the 50 foot woman and think its real
 

Days

Governor
No doubt the continents were close to where they are today, but pray tell, where did they get weather data from 2.6 million years ago? Even at 10C+ I don't think you eliminate the pole ice caps, shrink 'em, sure, but eliminate them? How much water would that have dumped into the oceans? 2000 feet? So, you are saying mean sea level was 2000 feet higher than it was 12,000 years ago?

Have you grasped the idea of Iceland being at the North pole?

I did the math in my sleep last night, if the net effect from the event 12,000 years ago was to dump 1/3 of an ice cap extra water into the oceans, and the mean sea level rose 400 feet, that means the old ice caps would have been 2 3/4 miles high. Now, all this happened. If you are arguing that there was more displacement in the Arctic ice cap, that just means that the ice caps would have had to be thicker. The mean sea level rose 350-400 feet, and the water came from the ice caps, so what are you preaching?
Okay, so let's look at this from the standpoint that the ice cap in the north was weakened enough to collapse the bridge across the Atlantic. (2.6 million years ago) Now what do we have? It becomes a trade-off in the north, where you add the ice that was over land to the south where you lose the ice that formed over land. There's more land that had ice in the north than land that gained ice in the south, but not near enough to account for the mean sea level rising 350-400 feet. So, the bridge must've held, as long as the bridge held, all the ice in the north was not displacing, and I guess the mean sea level came down for 2 1/2 million years while the ice caps built up to 2 3/4 miles thick.
 

Winston

Do you feel lucky, Punk
Okay, so let's look at this from the standpoint that the ice cap in the north was weakened enough to collapse the bridge across the Atlantic. (2.6 million years ago) Now what do we have? It becomes a trade-off in the north, where you add the ice that was over land to the south where you lose the ice that formed over land. There's more land that had ice in the north than land that gained ice in the south, but not near enough to account for the mean sea level rising 350-400 feet. So, the bridge must've held, as long as the bridge held, all the ice in the north was not displacing, and I guess the mean sea level came down for 2 1/2 million years while the ice caps built up to 2 3/4 miles thick.
Do you answer yourself often
 
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Winston

Do you feel lucky, Punk
Emily, there are no 25 feet tall humans, nor were there ever. You could also post links to bigfoot and nessie, the link means less than nothing. That said the link is messing with an already messed up mind so you are not doing this person any favor. He needs medical attention as he believes everything he sees on the internet to be based in fact
This is a real fossil
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_(Australopithecus)
 
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I owe everyone an apology. I looked into the man behind the video I linked and apparently he is not a geologist or archeologist and has no academic standing anywhere. His videos are interesting and do contain truths but he jumps into psuedo-scientific areas quickly. The one source of doubt might end up being the dating of that impact crater in Greenland. If it is found that it was certainly around 12k BC, then flooding due to extra-terrestrial events is pretty likely. His videos also include stories about ancient civilizations that are now under water. This has some truth to it insofar as rising oceans did inundate many sites. However, there is zero evidence of massive cities or civilizations prior to around 8k years ago.
 

Winston

Do you feel lucky, Punk
I owe everyone an apology. I looked into the man behind the video I linked and apparently he is not a geologist or archeologist and has no academic standing anywhere. His videos are interesting and do contain truths but he jumps into psuedo-scientific areas quickly. The one source of doubt might end up being the dating of that impact crater in Greenland. If it is found that it was certainly around 12k BC, then flooding due to extra-terrestrial events is pretty likely. His videos also include stories about ancient civilizations that are now under water. This has some truth to it insofar as rising oceans did inundate many sites. However, there is zero evidence of massive cities or civilizations prior to around 8k years ago.
In other words what I said
 

Winston

Do you feel lucky, Punk
I owe everyone an apology. I looked into the man behind the video I linked and apparently he is not a geologist or archeologist and has no academic standing anywhere. His videos are interesting and do contain truths but he jumps into psuedo-scientific areas quickly. The one source of doubt might end up being the dating of that impact crater in Greenland. If it is found that it was certainly around 12k BC, then flooding due to extra-terrestrial events is pretty likely. His videos also include stories about ancient civilizations that are now under water. This has some truth to it insofar as rising oceans did inundate many sites. However, there is zero evidence of massive cities or civilizations prior to around 8k years ago.
Did the impact crater melt all the worlds ice creating a flood that floated Noah's ark? Because that is what is being implied hy Doonsbury

Yawn
 
Did the impact crater melt all the worlds ice creating a flood that floated Noah's ark? Because that is what is being implied hy Doonsbury

Yawn
Of course not. I think he has been listening to a guy names Graham Hancock. I watched a TED talk he gave that ended up being banned by Ted. It was actually quite fascinating as he discussed the possible rise of consciousness as a result of drugs. He has spent time in the Amazon doing ayahasco (sp?)...very cool dude but he does believe in prior inundated civilizations.

The discovery of that impact crater though makes this entire discussion a bit more interesting. Surely you can accept the possibility that such an event around 12k years ago would have had immediate and drastic changes to the amount of water released by the ice sheet.
 

Winston

Do you feel lucky, Punk
Of course not. I think he has been listening to a guy names Graham Hancock. I watched a TED talk he gave that ended up being banned by Ted. It was actually quite fascinating as he discussed the possible rise of consciousness as a result of drugs. He has spent time in the Amazon doing ayahasco (sp?)...very cool dude but he does believe in prior inundated civilizations.
Schitzophrenics do gain consciousness from drugs
 
Schitzophrenics do gain consciousness from drugs
Have you ever done LSD or mushrooms? Believe me, they change your consciousness in a unique way. DMT is the drug in ayahuasco (sp?), it is even more powerful as a stimulant then LSD. The tradition of shamans taking drugs to reach another realm is pretty common across the ancient world.
 

Days

Governor
I owe everyone an apology. I looked into the man behind the video I linked and apparently he is not a geologist or archeologist and has no academic standing anywhere. His videos are interesting and do contain truths but he jumps into psuedo-scientific areas quickly. The one source of doubt might end up being the dating of that impact crater in Greenland. If it is found that it was certainly around 12k BC, then flooding due to extra-terrestrial events is pretty likely. His videos also include stories about ancient civilizations that are now under water. This has some truth to it insofar as rising oceans did inundate many sites. However, there is zero evidence of massive cities or civilizations prior to around 8k years ago.
"Zero evidence" is not correct, whether there was massive civilation prior to 8000 years ago, no one can be sure, it might have been massive, it certainly was global, depends on how you define "massive". The thing you have to see is that there was a transition period from 12,000 years ago to 8000 years ago. During that period there wasn't much more than farming and hunting.

You can't discount someone for speculation, everyone has some degree of speculation, this thread does a lot of speculating, when you go back a long time, you are forced to speculate. ETR posted about a period 2.6 million years ago, geologists speculate that there was enough volcanic activity at that time for the global temp to be 10 degrees Celsius hotter than it is today... it is speculation, really, just a wild guess, there's no data on global weather 2.6 million years ago.

However, we are very confident of climate change that occured 10,000 - 12,000 years ago... and it is global. Siberia went from tropical to sub-arctic. North America went from Arctic to moderate. Europe went from Arctic to moderate. North Africa went from Mediterranean to desert. Antarctica went from forested to polar. And there is that long narrow desert in South America that went from at least moderate, possibly rain forest, to desert. So, the whole earth changed latitudes, and it all reflects a meteoric strike in the North Atlantic that drove the impact region southward with the spin of the earth.

Even the location of the polar ice caps changed and everything changed about the same distance and at the same time... 12,000 years ago. Coincidently, Atlantis was said to have gone under water around the same time. Also at the same time, mean sea level rose 350-400 feet, so all the earth's coastal cities went under water, and we find them; off the coast of India, Japan, the UK, Indonesia, in the Bahamas, there's no telling how many disappeared into the sands of time on the ocean floor. So there was civilization running back long before 8000 years ago. Giza pyramids and the Sphinx are around 30,000 years old, and there are much older sites and evidence of plentiful ancient mining and strip mining that was high technology, as well as the megalithic stone work that is also global. Did you know there are over a 100o pyramids in one region alone... in China? There are over 75,000 ancients mines in South Africa; all high tech. There are hundreds of thousands of giant magnetrons that powered the laser mining in those ancient mines. So there is massive evidence of civilization, but no telling how large the populations were... but there is high tech ruins all over the globe.

So, was the earth mostly farmers and hunter/gatherers 8000 - 12,000 years ago? yes. But civilization goes back a lot further, and there's no reason not to speculate that man may have lived on this planet for tens of millions of years, if not hundreds of millions of years. The point being, the earth was prepared for life and for man to live on it... and man was created intelligent. It takes just as much intelligence, if not more, to survive a global apocalypse like what happened 12,000 years ago as it takes to do linear Algebra. Man was never stupid... until Winston came along and trolled this thread.
 
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Winston

Do you feel lucky, Punk
Have you ever done LSD or mushrooms? Believe me, they change your consciousness in a unique way. DMT is the drug in ayahuasco (sp?), it is even more powerful as a stimulant then LSD. The tradition of shamans taking drugs to reach another realm is pretty common across the ancient world.
Some people even see 35 feet tall people, however if you come down and believe that the 35 feet tall people are real. Then your mind has been turned to JELLO PERMANENTLY
 
"Zero evidence" is not correct, whether there was massive civilation prior to 8000 years ago, no one can be sure, it might have been massive, it certainly was global, depends on how you define "massive". The thing you have to see is that there was a transition period from 12,000 years ago to 8000 years ago. During that period there wasn't much more than farming and hunting.

You can't discount someone for speculation, everyone has some degree of speculation, this thread does a lot of speculating, when you go back a long time, you are forced to speculate. ETR posted about a period 2.6 million years ago, geologists speculate that there was enough volcanic activity at that time for the global temp to be 10 degrees Celsius hotter than it is today... it is speculation, really, just a wild guess, there's no data on global weather 2.6 million years ago.

However, we are very confident of climate change that occured 10,000 - 12,000 years ago... and it is global. Siberia went from tropical to sub-arctic. North America went from Arctic to moderate. Europe went from Arctic to moderate. North Africa went from Mediterranean to desert. Antarctica went from forested to polar. And there is that long narrow desert in South America that went from at least moderate, possibly rain forest, to desert. So, the whole earth changed latitudes, and it all reflects a meteoric strike in the North Atlantic that drove the impact region southward with the spin of the earth.

Even the location of the polar ice caps changed and everything changed about the same distance and at the same time... 12,000 years ago. Coincidently, Atlantis was said to have gone under water around the same time. Also at the same time, mean sea level rose 350-400 feet, so all the earth's coastal cities went under water, and we find them; off the coast of India, Japan, the UK, Indonesia, in the Bahamas, there's no telling how many disappeared into the sands of time on the ocean floor. So there was civilization running back long before 8000 years ago. Giza pyramids and the Sphinx are around 30,000 years old, and there are much older sites and evidence of plentiful ancient mining and strip mining that was high technology, as well as the megalithic stone work that is also global. Did you know there are over a 100o pyramids in one region alone... in China? There are over 75,000 ancients mines in South Africa; all high tech. There are hundreds of thousands of giant magnetrons that powered the laser mining in those ancient mines. So there is massive evidence of civilization, but no telling how large the populations were... but there is high tech ruins all over the globe.

So, was the earth mostly farmers and hunter/gatherers 8000 - 12,000 years ago? yes. But civilization goes back a lot further, and there's no reason not to speculate that man may have lived on this planet for tens of millions of years, if not hundreds of millions of years. The point being, the earth was prepared for life and for man to live on it... and man was created intelligent. It takes just as much intelligence, if not more, to survive a global apocalypse like what happened 12,000 years ago as it takes to do linear Algebra. Man was never stupid... until Winston came along and trolled this thread.
I think you would like this book. Got it in Singapore a long time ago.

https://www.amazon.com/Eden-East-Drowned-Continent-Southeast/dp/0753806797/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1544810439&sr=1-1&keywords=eden+in+the+east

I can support the idea that rising oceans inundated coastal settlements of early man. Here where I live the coastline was much further out to sea thousands of years ago. In the middle sea, it is very well established that the filling of the basins did destroy coastal villages.
 
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