The Hill: "ObamaCare's Collapse"

[Zam-Zam]

To the shock of absolutely no one who has a basic understanding of math, :

ObamaCare's predictable collapse

Everyone knew that it was just a matter of time, but no one expected it to fail this fast. Yet, that is exactly what is happening, as bad news story after bad news story about the state of ObamaCare arrives on a seemingly weekly basis.

ObamaCare co-ops were supposed to provide lower cost health insurance alternatives because they weren't driven by the profit motive. Now, just a couple of years after the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was implemented, 12 out of 23 co-ops have failed, costing taxpayers $1.2 billion in defaulted loan repayments. The failure rate even outstrips the Labor Department's 2011 projections of 36 percent, and as The Carpenters used to sing, "We've Only Just Begun."
The impact on 100,000 New York state users of the failed Health Republic Insurance of New York co-op means they will have to find new health insurance. The New York Post writes, "Add 250 New York cancer patients to the long list of victims of ObamaCare's lies — just one more snapshot of the program's ongoing death spiral."

Complete text: http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/260948-obamacares-predictable-collapse

 

[marvin martian]

To the shock of absolutely no one who has a basic understanding of math, :

ObamaCare's predictable collapse

Everyone knew that it was just a matter of time, but no one expected it to fail this fast. Yet, that is exactly what is happening, as bad news story after bad news story about the state of ObamaCare arrives on a seemingly weekly basis.

ObamaCare co-ops were supposed to provide lower cost health insurance alternatives because they weren't driven by the profit motive. Now, just a couple of years after the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was implemented, 12 out of 23 co-ops have failed, costing taxpayers $1.2 billion in defaulted loan repayments. The failure rate even outstrips the Labor Department's 2011 projections of 36 percent, and as The Carpenters used to sing, "We've Only Just Begun."
The impact on 100,000 New York state users of the failed Health Republic Insurance of New York co-op means they will have to find new health insurance. The New York Post writes, "Add 250 New York cancer patients to the long list of victims of ObamaCare's lies — just one more snapshot of the program's ongoing death spiral."

Complete text: http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/260948-obamacares-predictable-collapse

They really screwed up. This wasn't supposed to happen until after the election.

 

[Wolfert Webber]

To the shock of absolutely no one who has a basic understanding of math, :

ObamaCare's predictable collapse

Everyone knew that it was just a matter of time, but no one expected it to fail this fast. Yet, that is exactly what is happening, as bad news story after bad news story about the state of ObamaCare arrives on a seemingly weekly basis.

ObamaCare co-ops were supposed to provide lower cost health insurance alternatives because they weren't driven by the profit motive. Now, just a couple of years after the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was implemented, 12 out of 23 co-ops have failed, costing taxpayers $1.2 billion in defaulted loan repayments. The failure rate even outstrips the Labor Department's 2011 projections of 36 percent, and as The Carpenters used to sing, "We've Only Just Begun."
The impact on 100,000 New York state users of the failed Health Republic Insurance of New York co-op means they will have to find new health insurance. The New York Post writes, "Add 250 New York cancer patients to the long list of victims of ObamaCare's lies — just one more snapshot of the program's ongoing death spiral."

Complete text: http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/260948-obamacares-predictable-collapse

Is a $6,800 deductible insurance?

Many are finding out it is not.

 

[Arkady]

To the shock of absolutely no one who has a basic understanding of math, :

ObamaCare's predictable collapse

Everyone knew that it was just a matter of time, but no one expected it to fail this fast. Yet, that is exactly what is happening, as bad news story after bad news story about the state of ObamaCare arrives on a seemingly weekly basis.

ObamaCare co-ops were supposed to provide lower cost health insurance alternatives because they weren't driven by the profit motive. Now, just a couple of years after the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was implemented, 12 out of 23 co-ops have failed, costing taxpayers $1.2 billion in defaulted loan repayments. The failure rate even outstrips the Labor Department's 2011 projections of 36 percent, and as The Carpenters used to sing, "We've Only Just Begun."
The impact on 100,000 New York state users of the failed Health Republic Insurance of New York co-op means they will have to find new health insurance. The New York Post writes, "Add 250 New York cancer patients to the long list of victims of ObamaCare's lies — just one more snapshot of the program's ongoing death spiral."

Complete text: http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/260948-obamacares-predictable-collapse

Right-wingers have been predicting a collapse for Obamacare since it was first passed. Yet the most recent numbers have health insurance coverage rates up, healthcare cost growth lower than pre-Obamacare, and improvements in public health outcomes. There are growing pains, as we expected, especially in the South, where people are sickly and therefore expensive. But overall it appears to be an improvement.

Rick Manning is a partisan hack who has been churning out anti-Obamacare propaganda from the start. He'll continue to do so, regardless of how successful Obamacare might be, because he objects to the whole concept of Obamacare, successful or not, since it's an affront to his notions of limited government.

For example, back in 2012, he was convinced Obamacare had cratered based on the share of states that had opted not to set up state-based exchanges. He was also one of the know-nothings who insisted that the slow enrollment in Obamacare in October 2013, long ahead of the deadline, indicated a rejection of the system -- anyone dumb enough to listen to him was doubtless quite surprised when enrollment then surged.

Or how about when that yahoo insisted that Obamacare was responsible for poor job creation?

http://www.americanclarion.com/2012/09/10/president-obamas-shrinking-workforce-12184/

As you'll recall, Obamacare became law in March 2010. It's been six years and four months since then. So, what do we see if we try to gauge the labor market impact of Obamacare by comparing similarly lengthy periods before and after Obamacare?

Private-sector employment by month (in millions):

November 2003 108.961
March 2010 107.378
July 2016 122.272

So, in the six years and four months leading up to Obamacare, the private sector subtracted 1.583 million jobs. In the same length period following Obamacare it added 14.894 million jobs. But, we're told by hacks like Manning, writing from their right-wing think-tanks far removed from the real economy, Obamacare is killing jobs. This is why reasonable people have tuned them out.

 

[Dawg]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/healthcare/one-third-of-us-wont-have-choice-between-obamacare-plans-in-2017/ar-BBvPqWr?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

"We must pass the Bill to see what's in it"............biggest clusterduck in history.........you must prove you have health insurance but you don't have to prove you are a citizen!

 

[Jen]

To the shock of absolutely no one who has a basic understanding of math, :

ObamaCare's predictable collapse

Everyone knew that it was just a matter of time, but no one expected it to fail this fast. Yet, that is exactly what is happening, as bad news story after bad news story about the state of ObamaCare arrives on a seemingly weekly basis.

ObamaCare co-ops were supposed to provide lower cost health insurance alternatives because they weren't driven by the profit motive. Now, just a couple of years after the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was implemented, 12 out of 23 co-ops have failed, costing taxpayers $1.2 billion in defaulted loan repayments. The failure rate even outstrips the Labor Department's 2011 projections of 36 percent, and as The Carpenters used to sing, "We've Only Just Begun."
The impact on 100,000 New York state users of the failed Health Republic Insurance of New York co-op means they will have to find new health insurance. The New York Post writes, "Add 250 New York cancer patients to the long list of victims of ObamaCare's lies — just one more snapshot of the program's ongoing death spiral."

Complete text: http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/260948-obamacares-predictable-collapse

They knew from the start it would collapse. It was the only way to get single payer like they really wanted.

 

[Zam-Zam]

Right-wingers have been predicting a collapse for Obamacare since it was first passed. Yet the most recent numbers have health insurance coverage rates up, healthcare cost growth lower than pre-Obamacare, and improvements in public health outcomes. There are growing pains, as we expected, especially in the South, where people are sickly and therefore expensive. But overall it appears to be an improvement.

Rick Manning is a partisan hack who has been churning out anti-Obamacare propaganda from the start. He'll continue to do so, regardless of how successful Obamacare might be, because he objects to the whole concept of Obamacare, successful or not, since it's an affront to his notions of limited government.

For example, back in 2012, he was convinced Obamacare had cratered based on the share of states that had opted not to set up state-based exchanges. He was also one of the know-nothings who insisted that the slow enrollment in Obamacare in October 2013, long ahead of the deadline, indicated a rejection of the system -- anyone dumb enough to listen to him was doubtless quite surprised when enrollment then surged.

Or how about when that yahoo insisted that Obamacare was responsible for poor job creation?

http://www.americanclarion.com/2012/09/10/president-obamas-shrinking-workforce-12184/

As you'll recall, Obamacare became law in March 2010. It's been six years and four months since then. So, what do we see if we try to gauge the labor market impact of Obamacare by comparing similarly lengthy periods before and after Obamacare?

Private-sector employment by month (in millions):

November 2003 108.961
March 2010 107.378
July 2016 122.272

So, in the six years and four months leading up to Obamacare, the private sector subtracted 1.583 million jobs. In the same length period following Obamacare it added 14.894 million jobs. But, we're told by hacks like Manning, writing from their right-wing think-tanks far removed from the real economy, Obamacare is killing jobs. This is why reasonable people have tuned them out.

And now, back to reality.

United Healthcare, Humana, and Aetna have all pulled out out the ObamaCare exchanges. They did this for a very simple reason; They were all losing money in the exchanges. A lot of money. That's what happens when you have a bad business model to begin with. There is no good reason not to think that, at some point, other companies will do the same and exit ObamaCare. No one goes into business to lose money.

Since they pulled out, and since absolutely no one is rushing in to replace them, obviously the shortfall has to be made up somewhere. The choices are: a) Cut services, which means the quality of healthcare declines, b) Raise premiums, some of which has already occurred, and more seems likely, or c) Dump the shortfall on the taxpayer, which is what inevitably happens with a Huge Failed Government Project.

None of those solutions are good for anyone, except, of course, the government, which loves this sort of thing. More money extracted from the people, to them, is always a good thing. And despite what some would have you believe, that's all this scam was ever about.

 

[Boca]

Or how about when that yahoo insisted that Obamacare was responsible for poor job creation?

http://www.americanclarion.com/2012/09/10/president-obamas-shrinking-workforce-12184/

I was trying to figure out what ObamaCare had to do with job creation, so I went to your link to read the article. Lo and behold ObamaCare isn't even mentioned in it.

So I still don't know about that claim of yours. I do know you're losing your knack as a partisan hack. These must be very trying times for you Archie.

 

[Zam-Zam]

I was trying to figure out what ObamaCare had to do with job creation, so I went to your link to read the article. Lo and behold ObamaCare isn't even mentioned in it.

So I still don't know about that claim of yours. I do know you're losing your knack as a partisan hack. These must be very trying times for you Archie.

It seems to be a diversionary tactic.

 

[Boca]

It seems to be a diversionary tactic.

Most all of his novellas are. Every now and then you can learn something but these days it's rare.

 

[Boca]

And now, back to reality.

United healthcare, Humana, and Aetna have all pulled out out the ObamaCare exchanges. They did this for a very simple reason; They were all losing money in the exchanges. A lot of money. That's what happens when you have a bad business model to begin with. There is no good reason not to think that, at some point, other companies will do the same and exit ObamaCare. No one goes into business to lose money.

Since they pulled out, and since absolutely no one is rushing in to replace them, obviously the shortfall has to be made up somewhere. The choices are: a) Cut services, which means the quality of healthcare declines, b) Raise premiums, some of which has already occurred, and more seems likely, or c) Dump the shortfall on the taxpayer, which is what inevitably happens with a Huge Failed Government Project.

None of those solutions are good for anyone, except, of course, the government, which loves this sort of thing. More money extracted from the people, to them, is always a good thing. And despite what some would have you believe, that's all this scam was ever about.

The ACA was designed to fail. But only after sufficient time had passed to allow it to metastize and spread through the body politic. Then the only supposed solution would be single payer.

And sure enough the day after the Aetna announcement, that is exactly what Robert Reich said.

There is no end to the deceit and corruption in this Administration and with Hillary it will only get worse... much worse. It's what she does best.

 

[Lukey]

Right-wingers have been predicting a collapse for Obamacare since it was first passed. Yet the most recent numbers have health insurance coverage rates up, healthcare cost growth lower than pre-Obamacare, and improvements in public health outcomes. There are growing pains, as we expected, especially in the South, where people are sickly and therefore expensive. But overall it appears to be an improvement.

Rick Manning is a partisan hack who has been churning out anti-Obamacare propaganda from the start. He'll continue to do so, regardless of how successful Obamacare might be, because he objects to the whole concept of Obamacare, successful or not, since it's an affront to his notions of limited government.

For example, back in 2012, he was convinced Obamacare had cratered based on the share of states that had opted not to set up state-based exchanges. He was also one of the know-nothings who insisted that the slow enrollment in Obamacare in October 2013, long ahead of the deadline, indicated a rejection of the system -- anyone dumb enough to listen to him was doubtless quite surprised when enrollment then surged.

Or how about when that yahoo insisted that Obamacare was responsible for poor job creation?

http://www.americanclarion.com/2012/09/10/president-obamas-shrinking-workforce-12184/

As you'll recall, Obamacare became law in March 2010. It's been six years and four months since then. So, what do we see if we try to gauge the labor market impact of Obamacare by comparing similarly lengthy periods before and after Obamacare?

Private-sector employment by month (in millions):

November 2003 108.961
March 2010 107.378
July 2016 122.272

So, in the six years and four months leading up to Obamacare, the private sector subtracted 1.583 million jobs. In the same length period following Obamacare it added 14.894 million jobs. But, we're told by hacks like Manning, writing from their right-wing think-tanks far removed from the real economy, Obamacare is killing jobs. This is why reasonable people have tuned them out.

As is typical of your MO, you propagandize the issue by obscuring the facts and hyping one facet that appears to support your position. Yes, Obamacare "succeeded" in getting more Americans covered by a health care plan. But the fact is that about 85% of the additional "insured" are on Medicaid. There's two things dishonest about using this as evidence of Obamacare "succeeding" 1) it's just a huge expansion of our already unsustainable entitlement spending and 2) many of those who got Medicaid would have qualified for it using pre-Obamacare criterion, because his economy is so weak.

As for the jobs, the fact is that businesses are reporting that they are curtailing hiring specifically because of Obamacare:

http://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2016/08/just-released-firms-assess-the-effects-of-the-affordable-care-act.html#.V7w0x4XronV

And medical costs have stabilized because so much of the burden is being shifted in co-pays and deductables. People are curtailing use because they can't afford the care.

But as long as you have government produced stats, you have propaganda.

And there's certainly no shortage of examples of you putting lipstick on the progressive pig and trying to pass it off as "pretty." So carry on...

 

[Zam-Zam]

The ACA was designed to fail. But only after sufficient time had passed to allow it to metastize and spread through the body politic. Then the only supposed solution would be single payer.

And sure enough the day after the Aetna announcement, that is exactly what Robert Reich said.

There is no end to the deceit and corruption in this Administration and with Hillary it will only get worse... much worse. It's what she does best.

Single payer is another way of saying "dump it on the taxpayer", which is, of course, always the "solution" to another Huge Failed Government Project.

The next HFGP is likely to be "free" college education for everyone. What could go wrong?

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

To the shock of absolutely no one who has a basic understanding of math, :

ObamaCare's predictable collapse

Everyone knew that it was just a matter of time, but no one expected it to fail this fast. Yet, that is exactly what is happening, as bad news story after bad news story about the state of ObamaCare arrives on a seemingly weekly basis.

ObamaCare co-ops were supposed to provide lower cost health insurance alternatives because they weren't driven by the profit motive. Now, just a couple of years after the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was implemented, 12 out of 23 co-ops have failed, costing taxpayers $1.2 billion in defaulted loan repayments. The failure rate even outstrips the Labor Department's 2011 projections of 36 percent, and as The Carpenters used to sing, "We've Only Just Begun."
The impact on 100,000 New York state users of the failed Health Republic Insurance of New York co-op means they will have to find new health insurance. The New York Post writes, "Add 250 New York cancer patients to the long list of victims of ObamaCare's lies — just one more snapshot of the program's ongoing death spiral."

Complete text: http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/260948-obamacares-predictable-collapse

Translation: Our relentless GOP sabotage is having some of its desired effects! Nothing gives us more pleasure than obstructing affordable health care! We are insane!

;-)

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Right-wingers have been predicting a collapse for Obamacare since it was first passed. Yet the most recent numbers have health insurance coverage rates up, healthcare cost growth lower than pre-Obamacare, and improvements in public health outcomes. There are growing pains, as we expected, especially in the South, where people are sickly and therefore expensive. But overall it appears to be an improvement.

Rick Manning is a partisan hack who has been churning out anti-Obamacare propaganda from the start. He'll continue to do so, regardless of how successful Obamacare might be, because he objects to the whole concept of Obamacare, successful or not, since it's an affront to his notions of limited government.

For example, back in 2012, he was convinced Obamacare had cratered based on the share of states that had opted not to set up state-based exchanges. He was also one of the know-nothings who insisted that the slow enrollment in Obamacare in October 2013, long ahead of the deadline, indicated a rejection of the system -- anyone dumb enough to listen to him was doubtless quite surprised when enrollment then surged.

Or how about when that yahoo insisted that Obamacare was responsible for poor job creation?

http://www.americanclarion.com/2012/09/10/president-obamas-shrinking-workforce-12184/

As you'll recall, Obamacare became law in March 2010. It's been six years and four months since then. So, what do we see if we try to gauge the labor market impact of Obamacare by comparing similarly lengthy periods before and after Obamacare?

Private-sector employment by month (in millions):

November 2003 108.961
March 2010 107.378
July 2016 122.272

So, in the six years and four months leading up to Obamacare, the private sector subtracted 1.583 million jobs. In the same length period following Obamacare it added 14.894 million jobs. But, we're told by hacks like Manning, writing from their right-wing think-tanks far removed from the real economy, Obamacare is killing jobs. This is why reasonable people have tuned them out.

Wingers have done everything they can to obstruct the function of the exchanges, and to urge well people to refuse to insure themselves. Their sabotage has been partially effective, and they react with predictable glee.

And all these years later, we still have to listen to their blather about repealing the ACA to replace it with something better. But all they are good for is obstruction and noise. Truly worthless, horrible people.

 

[Arkady]

And now, back to reality.

United Healthcare, Humana, and Aetna have all pulled out out the ObamaCare exchanges.

This is what happens when there's a new business niche. At first, many rush in, knowing that those who aren't on the ground early might be shut out of what could prove a lucrative field. Sometimes the newcomers intentionally price artificially low, in order to carve out market position. This triggers a shake-out, since those prices are unsustainable (recall, Obamacare prices have been below initial projections). Eventually some of the early competitors realize they're not well-positioned for the new market and they drop out. Then sometimes prices rise, and, regardless, those who remain in the market get better economies of scale from consolidating the business, and eventually the new field stabilizes.

For example, consider when the automobile first became a mass consumer product. There were an enormous number of car companies in those early years, but gradually it consolidated down to just three major ones. Or consider, more recently, when home video game consoles first became a new consumer products niche. Between 1976 and 1986, the following companies put out systems: Magnavox, Universal Research Labs, Executive Games, Atari, Coleco, Fairchild Semiconductor, Entex, GHP, RCA, Nintendo, Bally, ATF, Mattel, Milton Bradley, Bentley, DMS, Sega, and Worlds of Wonder. Since then, most of them have gone broke, consolidated, or moved out of the video game console space. But that doesn't mean nobody makes money making video game consoles these days. It's a bigger business than ever before. It's just that there was a shakeout and now the vast majority of the space is dominated by just three corporations: Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo.

So, is this a usual shake-out of a maturing market, or a sign of the "death spiral" right-wingers have thought was happening ever since 2010? Time will tell. But, there's no reason to panic, yet. We can tweak things a bit if needed -- we can raise the penalties for not enrolling, to get more healthy people to insure, making the risk pool healthier on average. Since the fundamentals have been good (lower average healthcare spending growth since Obamacare than before, with better healthcare outcomes), we have some room to play.

 

[Wolfert Webber]

This is what happens when there's a new business niche. At first, many rush in, knowing that those who aren't on the ground early might be shut out of what could prove a lucrative field. Sometimes the newcomers intentionally price artificially low, in order to carve out market position. This triggers a shake-out, since those prices are unsustainable (recall, Obamacare prices have been below initial projections). Eventually some of the early competitors realize they're not well-positioned for the new market and they drop out. Then sometimes prices rise, and, regardless, those who remain in the market get better economies of scale from consolidating the business, and eventually the new field stabilizes.

For example, consider when the automobile first became a mass consumer product. There were an enormous number of car companies in those early years, but gradually it consolidated down to just three major ones. Or consider, more recently, when home video game consoles first became a new consumer products niche. Between 1976 and 1986, the following companies put out systems: Magnavox, Universal Research Labs, Executive Games, Atari, Coleco, Fairchild Semiconductor, Entex, GHP, RCA, Nintendo, Bally, ATF, Mattel, Milton Bradley, Bentley, DMS, Sega, and Worlds of Wonder. Since then, most of them have gone broke, consolidated, or moved out of the video game console space. But that doesn't mean nobody makes money making video game consoles these days. It's a bigger business than ever before. It's just that there was a shakeout and now the vast majority of the space is dominated by just three corporations: Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo.

So, is this a usual shake-out of a maturing market, or a sign of the "death spiral" right-wingers have thought was happening ever since 2010? Time will tell. But, there's no reason to panic, yet. We can tweak things a bit if needed -- we can raise the penalties for not enrolling, to get more healthy people to insure, making the risk pool healthier on average. Since the fundamentals have been good (lower average healthcare spending growth since Obamacare than before, with better healthcare outcomes), we have some room to play.

Of course costs are down, with deductibles in the thousands people don't go to the doctor.

Is a $6,800 deductible insurance?

I think not, unless you get AIDS.

 

[Zam-Zam]

We can tweak things a bit if needed --we can raise the penalties for not enrolling, to get more healthy people to insure, making the risk pool healthier on average..

Yes - Penalize the consumer for not being subservient enough. Force them to comply by taking away their earnings from them in ever-increasing amounts. That's Big Government Compassion at it's finest.

It will be dumped on the taxpayers in one form or another - Huger Failed Government Projects always are. Thanks for admitting it.

Oh, by the way, the suckers already enrolled are about to get it stuck to them already:

California Obamacare rates to rise 13% in 2017, more than three times the increase of last two years

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-covered-california-rates-20160718-snap-story.html

ObamaCare premiums expected to rise sharply amid insurer losses

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/277347-obamacare-premiums-expected-to-rise-sharply-amid-insurer-losses

Study Projects Sharper Increases In Obamacare Premiums For 2017

http://khn.org/news/study-projects-sharper-increases-in-obamacare-premiums-for-2017/


"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help....."

 

[Dawg]

It seems to be a diversionary tactic.

or as libs like to post=it's Thread Jacking

 

[Dawg]

Single payer is another way of saying "dump it on the taxpayer", which is, of course, always the "solution" to another Huge Failed Government Project.

The next HFGP is likely to be "free" college education for everyone. What could go wrong?

USPS............government can't even sell stamps
if government took over the desert thee would be no sand in five years