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The popular vote isn't a thing

Discussion in 'Latest Political News and Current Events' started by kaz, May 23, 2019.

  1. Raoul_Luke

    Raoul_Luke I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.

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    No, it wasn't. Market imbalances are market imbalances, regardless of what the calendar says. We'll never know because the "Keynesians" held sway. But we do know what did transpire:

    Screen Shot 2019-03-30 at 7.30.22 AM.

    And the longer that goes on, the more it puts the lie to "it was different."
     
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  2. Raoul_Luke

    Raoul_Luke I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.

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    The economic situation in 1920 was grim. By that year unemployment had jumped from 4 percent to nearly 12 percent, and GNP declined 17 percent. No wonder, then, that Secretary of Commerce Herbert Hoover — falsely characterized as a supporter of laissez-faire economics — urged President Harding to consider an array of interventions to turn the economy around. Hoover was ignored.

    Instead of "fiscal stimulus," Harding cut the government's budget nearly in half between 1920 and 1922. The rest of Harding's approach was equally laissez-faire. Tax rates were slashed for all income groups. The national debt was reduced by one-third.

    The Federal Reserve's activity, moreover, was hardly noticeable. As one economic historian puts it, "Despite the severity of the contraction, the Fed did not move to use its powers to turn the money supply around and fight the contraction."2 By the late summer of 1921, signs of recovery were already visible. The following year, unemployment was back down to 6.7 percent and it was only 2.4 percent by 1923.
     
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  3. Raoul_Luke

    Raoul_Luke I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.

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    Yet their prescription still illuminates the best way forward. Look, capitalism is certainly an imperfect way to run an economy, but it's better than all the rest. Same goes for a representative republic - it's an imperfect federal system, but way better than all the rest.

    I'm not talking about "future government policies" - I'm talking about what can possibly go wrong with the policy you espouse. Who could have predicted the government pension debacle? Anyone who ignored your suggestion that "it's not a big deal now" and actually contemplated what could go wrong with it.
     
  4. middleview

    middleview President Supporting Member

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    Which has f*ck all to do with the EC vs the popular vote...talking to you is like hearding gerbils.
     
  5. Raoul_Luke

    Raoul_Luke I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.

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    And there you have it - we who think for ourselves are no good to the left because we won't be "herded" into going along with their agenda.
     
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  6. middleview

    middleview President Supporting Member

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    You call your inabilty to focus on one subject (the EC) is thinking for yourself?
    Somehow you have now meandered from the popular vote to capitalism vs communism. :rolleyes:

    Oh look...a bird.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  7. Raoul_Luke

    Raoul_Luke I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.

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    Unlike you, I understand how all of this stuff weaves together to impact a society (indeed, including its future prospects). The economy is inextricably linked to the prevailing political philosophy. Lets face it, you don't intervene in the markets (or, as do you, advocate for intervention in the markets) because you want to "help" them. You aren't advocating for auto company bailouts because there are people who want to buy cars who can't seem to find any to buy. You admit freely that your support for the bail out of the auto companies was about keeping people from losing their jobs, a political aim which, of course, hinders the markets ability to align the supply of cars with current levels of demand. Nor do you advocate for bank bailouts because people can't find anyplace to store their excess cash. You admit freely that the reason you supported those was to keep people from losing their investments in bank stocks, a purely political objective because, in so doing, you insure that other more profitable investments will not be made.

    So if these bail outs that you love are aimed at political outcomes and not made for the specific purpose of helping the markets work, why on earth would you expect them to produce a robust, sustainable economic recovery? And, of course, they did not:

    Screen Shot 2019-03-30 at 7.30.22 AM.

    Yet you insist the economy was completely incapable on its own of turning in a better recovery without these interventions that are implemented precisely for the purpose of distorting the markets. Which, of course, is completely absurd!
     
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  8. middleview

    middleview President Supporting Member

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    You should try doing a little research....When did Harding become president? The depression ended shortly after he was sworn in.

    He got his tax cut in 1921, but it didn't take effect until 1922. It was actually signed into law in November 1921. Harding also pushed through tarrifs...forgot that part eh? About 150 banks closed in 1920. By 1921 there were 505 that had closed. That was in Iowa alone.

    Turns out that a huge part of the problem was government price supports for agriculture. Those supports ended in 1920. Add to that the farmers in Europe were beginning to recover and their products were arriving in large quantity.

    http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/mypath/great-depression-begins-1920s

    Add to that the Fed tightened the money supply.

    The unemployment rate went up to 11%...do you know what the unemployment rate was in 1933?

    The federal budget dropped from $18.5 billion in 1919 to $6.4 billion in 1920. Wilson was president. Harding dropped it to $3.3 billion in FY 1922.

    Now, about your "signs of recovery".....
     
  9. middleview

    middleview President Supporting Member

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    You should try doing a little research....When did Harding become president? The depression ended shortly after he was sworn in.

    He got his tax cut in 1921, but it didn't take effect until 1922. It was actually signed into law in November 1921. Harding also pushed through tarrifs...forgot that part eh? About 150 banks closed in 1920. By 1921 there were 505 that had closed. That was in Iowa alone.

    Turns out that a huge part of the problem was government price supports for agriculture. Those supports ended in 1920. Add to that the farmers in Europe were beginning to recover and their products were arriving in large quantity.

    http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/mypath/great-depression-begins-1920s

    Add to that the Fed tightened the money supply.

    The unemployment rate went up to 11%...do you know what the unemployment rate was in 1933?

    The federal budget dropped from $18.5 billion in 1919 to $6.4 billion in 1920. Wilson was president. Harding dropped it to $3.3 billion in FY 1922.

    Now, about your "signs of recovery".....
     
  10. middleview

    middleview President Supporting Member

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    No you don't. You certainly pretend to , but the only one you have convinced is you.
    The electoral college has nothing at all to do with the choice between communism and capitalism...any more than it will help me grow hair on my head or improve the gas mileage on my car.

    This is about participation in elections. Something you'd like to minimize.
     
  11. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich President

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    San Diego
    Oklahoma City
    Fresno
    Omaha
    Colorado Springs
    Miami
    Tulsa
    Wichita
    Rural Tennessee
    Rural Alabama
    Rural Florida
    Rural Wyoming
    Etc., etc., etc.
     
  12. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich President

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    You misspelled Republicans
     
  13. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich President

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    So a culturally vibrant national economic powerhouse?
     
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  14. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich President

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    The most left-wing Democrats support going back to what was supported by Democrats and Republicans alike 65 years ago.
     
  15. JackDallas

    JackDallas Senator Supporting Member

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    Nope, the states that decided the election were all the ones that had a majority of voters who wanted Donald J trump to be our president.
     
  16. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich President

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  17. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich President

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    The pensions are still a fine idea. The only “crisis” stems from the refusal of the rich to pay the necessary taxes to fund them.
     
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  18. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich President

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    Several european countries responded in similar ways to the 2007 crisis and their economies stagnated while the U.S. pulled ahead.
     
  19. Sunset Rose

    Sunset Rose Mayor

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    Can you prove that "illegal aliens" voted in the 2016 election? Also, did you know that aliens are beings from outer space and humans shouldn't be called aliens?
     
  20. middleview

    middleview President Supporting Member

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    And is two sheep and a wolf any more or less democratic?
     

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