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The Silver Lining in Obamacare...the collapse of Socialism.

Obamacare mandates that any firm that has over fifty employees must provide health insurance to its employees if they are full-time employees. It is not just any health insurance that must be provided, but it is GOVERNMENT APPROVED policies that must be provided. These are expensive. If companies refuse to provide this coverage to full-time employees, they have to pay a fine.

The Obamacare law now defines full-time employees as someone who works more than 30 hours a week.

It does not take a rocket scientist or a Ph.D. in Economics to figure out that if there is going to be a huge cost penalty for someone working more than 30 hours a week, then employers are going to try and save costs by having workers work fewer than thirty hours a week.

Many companies are now cutting their marginal employees to 29 hours a week in anticipation of the implementation of Obamacare. For many Americans, this will be the new norm. Many Americans will have to stitch together two or even three or more part time jobs in order to make a living and ALSO to pay the individual penalty for Obamacare that they will be hit with, as they will now not be covered by employer provided insurance.

The new American nightmare will be people who might have been middle class a decade before now trying to tie together a life with part-time jobs.

Instead of hiring that fiftieth employee and triggering all of the costs and penalties that would go along with that employee, many companies are going to start looking at hiring independent contractors or small businesses to handle tasks that once would have been handled in-house.

This is the golden opportunity for conservatives.

There is an old joke. What is a conservative? It is a liberal who has had to pay increasing taxes.


This is the message we must reach out to America with. Many Americans are unemployed thanks to the policies of the Obama Regime. Obamacare will prove, once again, that Socialism is a failure.
 

GordonGecko

President
First....YOU wrote all that, right?

Second, in 1935, the "American Liberty League" claimed that Social Security would "end democracy".

They sounded an AWFUL lot like you, didn't they? :)
 

Bo-4

Senator
Kind of like Medicare, Social Security and VA hospitals proved that socialism was a failure Sarge?

Sorry, but the more people see of Obamacare, the more they like it and the less they want to see it repealed.

Why do you support freeloaders who raise your insurance rates by using ER as their primary physician as last resort after getting zero preventative care.. guess who pays for that?
 
Second, in 1935, the "American Liberty League" claimed that Social Security would "end democracy".
In 1935 the average life expectancy was 65 years old, so most people did not live long enough to collect the money taken in taxes. That money went into the general fund with the intent that most of it would never would be paid out and it would result in a net surplus to the government.

However, our marvelous free market health care system has advanced medicine (at least it did before Obamacare) to the point that life expectancy is far beyond 65 years of age, thus the reality is that, now, Social Security is also mathematically assured to fail.

Thus the need for a government controlled medical system, which can ration care and reduce the number of people that have grown to rely on government provided Medicare and Social Security, and yes Virginia, the country is failing, both socially and economically.

The mathematics are there for any that want to actually take a trip through reality.

Obama's proposed agenda of taxing the rich won't do a damn thing to reduce the debt or deficit.

The 90 billion in increased revenues would run the government for only 8.5 days. IT'S ALL SPENDING, and the gravy train is going to run out of gravy, that is a mathematical certainity.
 

GordonGecko

President
Sarge,

1. Again....your Top Post was your own? No Cut & Pasting from another writer.

2. Not my point. My point was radical conservatives have been making claims of "apocalypse" or whatever about Government programs for nearly EIGHTY years....i.e. the "American Liberty League's" dire prophecy on the "end of democracy" if Social Security came to be.

The Holy and Sainted Ronald Reagan made the same predictons on Medicare in 1961.

Now today, it's true, after endless tax cuts....ODDLY revenues to those programs are down....but not irreversibly so. A simple hike in the "income cap" fixes SS for decades, ditto minor changes in Medicare....that do NOT involve totally scrapping the programs or "privatizing/voucherizing" them.

But regardless....your ideology has not only been WRONG for almost a century (more if we date back to opposition to ending child labor or having a Pure Food & Drug Act or trust-busting).....it has been REJECTED for almost a century (as it was 3 weeks ago).

So both your "The End Is Near" blather...and your belief-system....are both false...and irrelevant.

awww.mattftw.com_wp_content_uploads_EndIsNear1.jpg

Doh! :D
 

Bo-4

Senator
A lot of rapid fire TPing from Sarge this morning no? I think he culls sentences here and there from survivalist nutball sites and then regurgitates the major talking points (usually the most insane ones ;-)
 

trapdoor

Governor
Sarge,
1. Again....your Top Post was your own? No Cut & Pasting from another writer.
I agree if it was a quote it should be attributed.

2. Not my point. My point was radical conservatives have been making claims of "apocalypse" or whatever about Government programs for nearly EIGHTY years....i.e. the "American Liberty League's" dire prophecy on the "end of democracy" if Social Security came to be.
The Holy and Sainted Ronald Reagan made the same predictons on Medicare in 1961.
And many of these dire prophecies have come to pass -- such as the fact that Medicare, projected at its debut to cost $12 billion in 1990, cost $125 billion in 1990 (holy and sainted or not Reagan was correct to be pessimistic about Medicare). Obamacare, projected to cost $938 billion when it was passed, will cost $1.2 trillion according to CBO estimates -- and that is a CURRENT estimate.

Now today, it's true, after endless tax cuts....ODDLY revenues to those programs are down....but not irreversibly so. A simple hike in the "income cap" fixes SS for decades, ditto minor changes in Medicare....that do NOT involve totally scrapping the programs or "privatizing/voucherizing" them.
There have been no permanent tax cuts to FICA, and the existing payroll tax cut was not put in place until Obama took office. Historically, that income cap was put in place for a reason. Has that reason ended? No.

No point in responding to the rest -- it was directed at someone else and was largely blather.
 

GordonGecko

President
trap.....your ideology has been losing for 80 years. Again, why do you think NOW it will suddenly, after all these decades, be "victorious"....

if not the same "apocalyptic" desires that Sarge shows? Desires the Right has ALSO seen fail....for those same 80 years?
 
Actually, that happens regardless of the ACA provisions. Notice how Walmart handles this issue. The key thing the nation must accept as fact is that we pay more for less than any other industrialized nation because for some reason, we want to make a profit at the expense of our sick and aged. It will take time to teach folks like you that mercy costs far less than you think and is well worth the price. When we begin to rearrange our priorities from concentrating wealth at the top and building war machines we may one day rejoin the ranks of the civilized world in regards to the way we deal with our own people.
 

degsme

Council Member
The Obamacare law now defines full-time employees as someone who works more than 30 hours a week.

It does not take a rocket scientist or a Ph.D. in Economics to figure out that if there is going to be a huge cost penalty for someone working more than 30 hours a week, then employers are going to try and save costs by having workers work fewer than thirty hours a week.
Except that any company looking to attract quality workers already offers healthcare. And the amount of work a company has doesn't change.
 
My wife works for a small company locally. They have around 50 employees and offer up insurance if you are full time. Costs the company 500 bucks a month, the employee pays 300.
 
But regardless....your ideology has not only been WRONG for almost a century (more if we date back to opposition to ending child labor or having a Pure Food & Drug Act or trust-busting).....it has been REJECTED for almost a century (as it was 3 weeks ago).
That's not an argument and is not supportable by even the most basic facts. it's just more blather from a person that's trying to support an ideology that is a proven failure.

Really, I mean; Individual economic freedom, private property rights ( the right to keep what you earn without fear of confiscation for redistribution), has been a failure? Yep that's why the United States, when it actually practiced those founding values, became the most successful, most prosperous nation with the highest standard of living for the vast majority of its people.

Now we are a nation that spends a trillion dollars a year on non SS and medicare welfare payouts to people that that pay no taxes, while condemning the very people that create the wealth that supports the government as 'not paying their fair share.'

6,000 years of recorded human history has proven one thing, your ideology, which you have obviously been indoctrinated in, collapses economies, collapses societies, then the immense centralized power that you have ceded to the national government imposed ITS will on a demoralized destitute society.

It can and is happening here under the Neo-Democrats.

Obama's 'balanced approach' simply is the successful pay more and the losers get more, until there is really no incentive to create wealth that is simply redistributed to others.

Pravda, the former organ of the Communist party gets it, and if anyone knows how this ends, they do.

You're screwed and you don't even know it.

Former USSR Paper Calls President Obama A ‘Communist Without Question’

The President Obama communist comment was part of an article titled “Obama’s Soviet Mistake” in which the newspaper offers a biting critique of the President’s policies.

>>>Obama has been re-elected for a 2nd term by an illiterate society and he is ready to continue his lies of less taxes while he raises them.<<<<

Is Obama actually talking about cutting taxes for the middle class? No, He simply wants to maintain the current (BUSH) rates for middle income payers, and raise every other tax they pay, whether it be through the increased cost of a government mandated insurance policy, the increased prices on energy through his attack on fossil fuels, selling a home or raising taxes on their dividends and capital gains.

And why is it your business what another human being pays in taxes, the only place where people worry about what other people pay in taxes is called a police state.

>>>He (Obama) is a Communist without question – promoting the Communist Manifesto without calling it so. How shrewd he is in America. His cult of personality mesmerizes those who cannot go beyond their ignorance. They will continue to follow him like those fools who still praise Lenin and Stalin in Russia. Obama’s fools and Stalin’s fools share the same drink of illusion.<<<

By the way, the article gets even better. Here are a few highlights from a recent speech by Vladimir Putin:

“We are reducing taxes on production – investing money in the economy. We are optimizing state expenses.

The second possible mistake would be excessive interference in the economic life of the country and the absolute faith in the all-mightiness of the state.

There are no grounds to suggest that by putting the responsibility over to the state, one can achieve better results.<<<

>>> During the time of the Soviet Union, the role of the state in economy was made absolute, which eventually led to the total non-competitiveness of the economy. That lesson cost us very dearly. I am sure no one would want history to repeat itself.

We must seek support in the moral values that have ensured the progress of our civilization. Honesty and hard work, responsibility and faith in our strength are bound to bring us success.”

Sounds closer to Ronald Reagan than Barack Obama, doesn’t he?

http://mikesright.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/pravda-communist-obama-reelected-by-illiterate-society/
 

degsme

Council Member
But regardless....your ideology has not only been WRONG for almost a century (more if we date back to opposition to ending child labor or having a Pure Food & Drug Act or trust-busting).....it has been REJECTED for almost a century (as it was 3 weeks ago).
That's not an argument and is not supportable by even the most basic facts.
Sure it is


  • FACT Socialism is defined as government ownership of the means of production
  • FACT Obama has nowhere offered any policy similar to that
  • FACT You cannot point to an Obama policy proposal that is to the left of Dwight D Eisenhower.
  • FACT Even Benjamin Franklin understood that the very notion of what "property is" is defined by society and not by an individual
  • FACT ALL societies engage in wealth redistribution - it is a primary function of society
  • FACT Prior to the USA adopting a policy of Stimultive spending after economic downturns
    • Crashes on avg. occurred THREE TIMES MORE OFTEN
    • Recoveries on avg. took EIGHT TIMES AS LONG
    • The net wealth creation in American Society WAS LOWER even though it was aided by slave labor and expropriation of property
  • FACT Obama's Stimulus WORKED
    • GDP Growth rate improved 12.9% in a mere 12 mos
    • Job Creation rate improved 10.1%+ in roughly 14 mos
  • FACT Reagan's "make people more self reliant" FAILED
    • the breadth of poverty during the recession he created was wider than under the one Carter created
    • the Depth of poverty in Reagan's recession was Deeper than Carters
  • Deregulation over the last 30 years has FAILED destroying more wealth than it has created:
    • Reagan's deregulation of banks caused the S&L crash that at the time was the 2nd biggest fiscal crash in human history
    • GWB and the GOP Congress's deregulation of investment banks caused the 2007-2009 crash wich currently is the 2nd biggest fiscal crash in human history
    • GWB and the GOP Congress's deregulation of derivatives caused the 2007 crash to amplify into a world wide crash via Credit Default swaps - and in the process dragged GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy
  • FACT under FDR's Stimulus policies GDP was growing at an annual rate fo 8.1%
  • FACT in 1937 when FDR cut stimulative spending (not quite believing in Keynesian policies) the economy fell back into recession
  • FACT it was FDR's continuation of stimulative spending - part civillian, part WWII DoD spending that ended the recession
  • FACT Reagan's tax cuts for the wealth REDUCED GDP GROWTH RATES
  • FACT GWB's tax cuts on Long Term Capital Goods resulted in 0% increase in Capital investment

These are just a few FACTS that your ideology ignores.

That Putin speaks in the same language as Reagan should warn you that what Reagan said was mostly bullsh!t...
 

degsme

Council Member
The Holy and Sainted Ronald Reagan made the same predictons on Medicare in 1961
.And many of these dire prophecies have come to pass -- such as the fact that Medicare, projected at its debut to cost $12 billion in 1990, cost $125 billion in 1990 (holy and sainted or not Reagan was correct to be pessimistic about Medicare).
Um that was not Reagan's prediction. And much of the cost is due to expanded scope. in fact MOST of what Reagan predicted in 1961 was nowhere near born out by history.

There have been no permanent tax cuts to FICA, and the existing payroll tax cut was not put in place until Obama took office. Historically, that income cap was put in place for a reason. Has that reason ended? No
The FICA tax rate cuts were forced by the GOP. had the GOP been willing to allow through any policy proposals by Obama - the way the Dems allowe GWB to have a chance of governing, FICA tax rates would be at their legislated program levems and our economy would be growing at about 4% and unemployment would be around 6%-6.5%. So blaming Obama for doing what he could in the face of historically unprecedented filibuster is rather rish.

As for the historic reason for the FICA cap - it was purely political theatre back the. So your assertion is that keeping it in place continues to be political theatre... OKEY DOKEY..


There have been no permanent tax cuts to FICA, and the existing payroll tax cut was not put in place until Obama took office. Historically, that income cap was put in place for a reason. Has that reason ended? No.

No point in responding to the rest -- it was directed at someone else and was largely blather.[/QUOTE]
 

degsme

Council Member
My wife works for a small company locally. They have around 50 employees and offer up insurance if you are full time. Costs the company 500 bucks a month, the employee pays 300.
yeah and the startup I got roped into helping, does not. It treats many of its employees like crap. So I'm gone in 2 weeks, their Dir. of Dev is gone next week (giving 0 weeks notice he's so pissed) their lead Project Manager is gone as soon as she can get a job. Treat employees the way Sarge suggests and you go into bankruptcy fast.
 
One of the key unmentioned benefits of the ACA and the universal mandate is that it will teach every single person to understand that health care costs are something each of us must manage on a personal level if we are to attain savings in the aggregate. Studies have shown that our fee for pay system does nothing to control costs because the entire system is geared towards rewarding higher costs rather than better health care. When different systems are compared, the USA ends up paying for more for health care with virtually no benefit for that extra cost. In fact, in many cases the outcomes are worse because of the very real threat of getting worse while in a hospital due to exposure to diseases, infections and a weakened immune system due to unnecessary treatments. I watched a PBS clip today that discussed a son who insisted that UCLA keep his mother on life support treatments for over 10 months at a total cost of over 5 million. The doctors told the son that his mother was not responding and was in a vegetative state and that further treatments were useless and unnecessary. The mother was on Medicare. The son did what any son would do which is to hope for the miracle cure and wish that one day his mother would wake up. She never did and died. My brother went through the exact same thing. The human desire to fight to live is so strong that even people that know better still end up insisting on more therapy, more treatments and more exploratory procedures. My brothers wife was an RN. She knew his stage 4 lung cancer was a death sentence, my brother did too. But that did not stop him from fighting like hell with his doctor for more radiation, for another cocktail, for more morphine, oxycotin and so on. I think the solution is to have substantive discussions about treatment costs, risks, benefits and likely outcomes in every terminal or life threatening case. The clip mentioned that when family members understand the reality and the cost, they usually opt for quality of life over prolonging the agony.
 
The incredible thing about my wifes job is that her boss is a flaming liberal and when we had to jump on the program because I am now out of work, she freaked out over the extra 500 bucks a month. It drove her nuts even though my wife was fully qualified to get the coverage but had never had to because I was always insured. Things have calmed down but it was a reality check for us because this is a business owned by one family who pay themselves 6 figures while paying their help 10-15 dollars an hour. They are nice people but completely oblivious to the real world. One of the sisters that used to run the business never comes in, she is a hypochondriac who is afraid of the air around her and makes her husband jump in a shower before he can enter their home. She pulls over 100 grand a year never to work. A family business has that right, who would deny them that since it is their business. But let's face it, they only pay what they have to and keep most of it for themselves making each of their employees live on 20-40k a year in one of the most expensive areas in the nation. The business is about a 5-10 million dollar deal with a feed store, two retail outfits and a restaurant space they lease out. Their clients are the well to do horse and ranch folks in the valley and elsewhere.
 
Sure it is


  • FACT Socialism is defined as government ownership of the means of production
  • FACT Obama has nowhere offered any policy similar to that
  • FACT You cannot point to an Obama policy proposal that is to the left of Dwight D Eisenhower.
  • FACT Even Benjamin Franklin understood that the very notion of what "property is" is defined by society and not by an individual
  • FACT ALL societies engage in wealth redistribution - it is a primary function of society
  • FACT Prior to the USA adopting a policy of Stimultive spending after economic downturns
    • Crashes on avg. occurred THREE TIMES MORE OFTEN
    • Recoveries on avg. took EIGHT TIMES AS LONG
    • The net wealth creation in American Society WAS LOWER even though it was aided by slave labor and expropriation of property
  • FACT Obama's Stimulus WORKED
    • GDP Growth rate improved 12.9% in a mere 12 mos
    • Job Creation rate improved 10.1%+ in roughly 14 mos
  • FACT Reagan's "make people more self reliant" FAILED
    • the breadth of poverty during the recession he created was wider than under the one Carter created
    • the Depth of poverty in Reagan's recession was Deeper than Carters
  • Deregulation over the last 30 years has FAILED destroying more wealth than it has created:
    • Reagan's deregulation of banks caused the S&L crash that at the time was the 2nd biggest fiscal crash in human history
    • GWB and the GOP Congress's deregulation of investment banks caused the 2007-2009 crash wich currently is the 2nd biggest fiscal crash in human history
    • GWB and the GOP Congress's deregulation of derivatives caused the 2007 crash to amplify into a world wide crash via Credit Default swaps - and in the process dragged GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy
  • FACT under FDR's Stimulus policies GDP was growing at an annual rate fo 8.1%
  • FACT in 1937 when FDR cut stimulative spending (not quite believing in Keynesian policies) the economy fell back into recession
  • FACT it was FDR's continuation of stimulative spending - part civillian, part WWII DoD spending that ended the recession
  • FACT Reagan's tax cuts for the wealth REDUCED GDP GROWTH RATES
  • FACT GWB's tax cuts on Long Term Capital Goods resulted in 0% increase in Capital investment

These are just a few FACTS that your ideology ignores.

That Putin speaks in the same language as Reagan should warn you that what Reagan said was mostly bullsh!t...
OOOOhHHHHH! So many words, so little sense.

Ownership of The means of production? Hell, Obama Nationalized the Student Loan Industry, and has total control of EVERY industry in the United States through the EPA, OSHA, the ADA the IRS and HHS. And he takes 36% of EVERY damn dollar of profit that they earn for the privilege of controlling them. The government gets a free ride from industry, just like the leeches that pay zero taxes while at the same time sucking on the taxpayers' tit.

And then they complain that the people that do the hiring that pays the wages that pay the taxes AREN'T PAYING ENOUGH by using a bunch of 3rd rate Marxist bullcrap that promotes jealousy, envy and greed.

A simple fact, it is a mathematical impossibility to raise taxes enough to balance the budget, and the Democrats will NEVER cut one dime of government spending; hell they won't even cut back on the automatic 6% increase in spending that occurs every year, and they scream like a bunch of banshees every time anyone even tries to cut back on the growth of their precious bloated all consuming government.

That means the national debt will grow, year, after year, after year.

At some point in the near future, the Liberal bull crap is going to meet the mathematical certainty and the whole system is going to collapse.

All that remains to be seen are how society will react when that happens.

And if you hadn't heard, the progressive income tax is straight out of Marx's Communist Manifesto. We all know how that works out, given enough time.
 
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