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Toward a greener car

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
I said I'd been misinformed about the Tesla construction -- but I used your source for the fact, fact mind you, that there will be one supercharger station in the state of Iowa when there is "95 percent saturation." Go to the link, look at the map. By 2015, there will be one -- it appears to be located in Des Moines. That means I might (but not certainly) be able to drive a Tesla from Davenport, where I live, to the nearest supercharger station -- but not to the next one after that (the distances don't add up).
What is your issue?

Yes...you were misinformed...and I informed you.
 

trapdoor

Governor
What is your issue?

Yes...you were misinformed...and I informed you.
Now my issue is that even when things are all hunky dory as you predicted, and assuming I hit the lottery so I can afford a Tesla S's purchase price, I still wouldn't be able to gas the thing up (pardon the colloquialism), within its range.

I'd say that reduces its utility around these parts.
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
Now my issue is that even when things are all hunky dory as you predicted, and assuming I hit the lottery so I can afford a Tesla S's purchase price, I still wouldn't be able to gas the thing up (pardon the colloquialism), within its range.

I'd say that reduces its utility around these parts.

So you live in the middle of nowhere. Not my problem.
 

trapdoor

Governor
So you live in the middle of nowhere. Not my problem.
I live in Davenport, Iowa. You are touting the Tesla as the car for all seasons and all locations. As I said earlier -- it's a great car if you don't need to go anywhere. If you live in Iowa, however, and there's only one refueling station and it is further away than the car's range, not so much.
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
I live in Davenport, Iowa. You are touting the Tesla as the car for all seasons and all locations. As I said earlier -- it's a great car if you don't need to go anywhere. If you live in Iowa, however, and there's only one refueling station and it is further away than the car's range, not so much.
You're a mendacious piece of flotsam...

I am not, nor have I ever touted the Tesla as the car for all seasons and all locations. Indeed, in one of my recent posts in this very thread....I made the point that I have never argued that any of these cars apply to everyone.


From the beginning, I have worked on two basic concepts.

(1)Electric cars are not for everyone and for every use...
(2) but the technology is improving and doing so quite rapidly.


What makes you lie so?
 

trapdoor

Governor
I'm having trouble posting/replying to PJ today. "Reply" takes me to a page that says "Post reply" but provides no screen in which to write. If my responses are not complete, that is why.

As for my lying, I hadn't paged back, and I thought it was Zoar, not yourself, who had made that comment.

Either way, where I live is not "in the middle of nowhere," and Tesla has no plans to support the area, at least not by 2015, the time when Tesla claims it will have 95 percent penetration.
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
I'm having trouble posting/replying to PJ today. "Reply" takes me to a page that says "Post reply" but provides no screen in which to write. If my responses are not complete, that is why.

As for my lying, I hadn't paged back, and I thought it was Zoar, not yourself, who had made that comment.

Either way, where I live is not "in the middle of nowhere," and Tesla has no plans to support the area, at least not by 2015, the time when Tesla claims it will have 95 percent penetration.
If the coverage area of anything is 95% and one does not live in the nearly complete and widespread coverage area, then one is in the vast vast vast minority. Such is the cause of the statement...."in the middle of nowhere"...
 

trapdoor

Governor
If the coverage area of anything is 95% and one does not live in the nearly complete and widespread coverage area, then one is in the vast vast vast minority. Such is the cause of the statement...."in the middle of nowhere"...
If something covers 90 percent of the lower 48, it would have more than one of itself in Iowa. According to the map there are 4 or 5 along the I-70 corridor that stretches from St. Louis to Kansas City, but none along the I-80 corridor between Des Moines and Chicago.

A bootless argument, anyway. Just for grins, I went and looked at the Tesla S website. I'm in the market for a car, and thought I'd see what I could do.

According to that website, the shortest-range S, the 65kw model, sells for $71,070, and has a monthly payment of $916 (for people who qualify for the 2.95 percent interest rate and 72-month financing). The estimated actual monthly cost of ownership, due rebates, fuel savings, etc., is $579.

Although it would be tough for me, I could swing a car payment in the $579 range -- but that wouldn't be my payment. That would be my "ownership cost." And I'd still have to have another car for the long trips I make once or twice each month -- and that would be true in 2015 when there is 95 percent charger saturation, too.

Tesla/Musk have great marketers and build what appears to be a great car. To be truly great, however, they're going to have to halve its price and double its range.
 

Zoar

Governor
Graig, they are completely aggravating, infuriating and manipulative. I Iggied them because trying to discuss electric cars (or anything actually) with them is like diving into a pit of quicksand with an anvil strapped to either foot. They suck you down.
 

Zoar

Governor
Craig
If the coverage area of anything is 95% and one does not live in the nearly complete and widespread coverage area, then one is in the vast vast vast minority. Such is the cause of the statement...."in the middle of nowhere"...
Craig and all -- here is another vehicle that I like a lot and think many people would use particularly when it is easier to get in the US. It is a TWIKE. A 3 wheeled electric / peddle vehicle. Up to 200 mile range on a charge. Up to 60 miles per hour speed. I just was in touch with these folks to see about availability in the US. If someone made these here the price would be way down which means this is a very attractive and promising "greener vehicle" option for the US. (They are already popular in Europe). It is for people who like to be active and healthy and green. This obviously excludes 99% of Republicans/Conservatives because they prefer to shitt on the earth and derisively laugh at anyone who actually cares and who would own such a terrific vehicle as this.


 

trapdoor

Governor
The Twike looks interesting. It could get around some of the collision requirements by being a "motorcycle" (or even a bicycle). Any idea what it costs?
 

trapdoor

Governor
It costs "too much", Trappy, Never you mind.
"Too much" is a sliding-scale figure. Take the electric motorcycles I mentioned above. I could commute on one -- if they didn't cost $12,000. But at $12,000, they cost too much because they don't have enough range to go on a typical poker-run with my pals.

Or the Peraves Eco-mobile monotracer. It "costs too much" only because it is beyond my means to purchase one.

So the Twike might make an excellent commuter for me -- if it costs $4K or less. If it's much higher than that, well, that would exceed what I have available to use for such a limited purchase.
 

Zoar

Governor
"Too much" is a sliding-scale figure. Take the electric motorcycles I mentioned above. I could commute on one -- if they didn't cost $12,000. But at $12,000, they cost too much because they don't have enough range to go on a typical poker-run with my pals.

Or the Peraves Eco-mobile monotracer. It "costs too much" only because it is beyond my means to purchase one.

So the Twike might make an excellent commuter for me -- if it costs $4K or less. If it's much higher than that, well, that would exceed what I have available to use for such a limited purchase.
Like I said "Never you mind," there is really no pont for you to look into anything, the answer will be the same from you: Can't afford it/too expensive. Like i said "Never uou mind,"
 

trapdoor

Governor
Like I said "Never you mind," there is really no pont for you to look into anything, the answer will be the same from you: Can't afford it/too expensive. Like i said "Never uou mind,"[/quote

That simply isn't true. I merely can't afford a " unitasker" -- to borrow a term from cooking show host Alton Brown-- unless the price is modest enough e that I can have a regular vehicle, too.
 

fairsheet

Senator
Those all-electric motorcycles are interesting in that they have so much power and are so quiet. I like "quiet" so's I can sneak up on the wildlife on the FS roads. Unfortunately at this point anyway, they DO cost too much for me to justify one.
 

trapdoor

Governor
Those all-electric motorcycles are interesting in that they have so much power and are so quiet. I like "quiet" so's I can sneak up on the wildlife on the FS roads. Unfortunately at this point anyway, they DO cost too much for me to justify one.
When I started this thread it was about greener cars -- something I think is an achievable goal. Zoar and Craig want it to only be about electric cars, something that I don't think is achievable if the goal is to replace the functionality of today's cars with an equal level of functionality in greener cars.

Zoar made a big deal out of insulting me because I said certain of the vehicles he proffered were too expensive, given that they can't multitask. I merely want an alternative vehicle to be a viable alternative -- something greener, but just as good, as what it is supposed to replace.
 
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