Unions - Good or bad?

[degsme]

Do you have a point?

I can ask the same of you.

The point is that union incompetence is no harder to fire than private sector incompetence.

 

[Addy]

So much truth there, MaryAnne.. re: Unions -- plus their efforts and demands in making the work place safe, environmentally healthy, as possible, for workers..decent wages, benefits, makes for happy workers and happy workers usually means better productivity...from my POV.

So.. miners, factory workers, plus skilled white collar workers, etc. benefit by having unions. I thought the movie, Norma Rae, was great in the way it portrayed why Unions are necessary.

 

[connieb]

I disagree. I can fire anyone that works for me at any time for their incompetence, and I don't need hearings and advocates to deal with it. You F-ED up you are out of here. Pretty simple in the private world in at will states.

 

[lupehernandezdepedajack]

So much truth there, MaryAnne.. re: Unions -- plus their efforts and demands in making the work place safe environment healthy and safe as possible for workers..decent wages, benefits, makes for happy workers and happy workers usually means better productivity...from my POV.

So.. miners, factory workers, plus skilled white collar workers, etc. benefit by having unions. I thought the movie Norma Rae was great in the way it portrayed why Unions are necessary.

Wasn't Norma Rae about textile workers?.....How did that work out?

 

[lilly]

Do you have a point?

Yes teachers, we need good ones and not ones that feel they have a job, no matter what.

I am so embarrassed, I edited when I read I typed 'there' instead of 'their' but when it was quoted it did not take the edit. My teacher daughter had better not see this. lol

 

[lilly]

I can ask the same of you.

The point is that union incompetence is no harder to fire than private sector incompetence.

In some cases you are right. I was engaged at one time to a Union mediator and what a difficult job that was. He took his job seriously and I know the saying, 'you can't please all of the people all of the time' came to mind every day. He didn't have a law degree but spent half his life the law libraries.

 

[Addy]

Wasn't Norma Rae about textile workers?.....How did that work out?

So probably taking work overseas to China sweat shops was their cop-out... companies are greedy.. profit above all else.

Also know that lots of textile workers developed brown lung.. about the same as coal miners suffering with black lung disease...


Scabs are usually to blame for Union failures.. but they are the first in line for the benefits if the Union succeeds ..

 

[degsme]

I disagree. I can fire anyone that works for me at any time for their incompetence, and I don't need hearings and advocates to deal with it. You F-ED up you are out of here. Pretty simple in the private world in at will states.

Then why did the execs at GM not get fired for 30 years of running their companies into the ground?

See what Unions are there for is to offset that disparity. Because in an "at Will" state, you can fire someone for reasons OTHER than incompetence. That you need to SHOW incompetence when dealing with unionized labor is no different than having to show malfeasance in trying to break a contract you have with a vendor.

So what you are asking for really, is the ability to fire WITHOUT a basis of incompetence... simply based on prejudice.

 

[lupehernandezdepedajack]

So it didn't work out too good

 

[lilly]

I wouldn't mind one bit, if Walmart had a union take over. They tread their employees like dirt and something should be done.

 

[MaryAnne]

How much over time does your daughter put in Lily? Without pay? Homework,Furthering her Education? If the state pays her for that,good. Many companies do the same for employees.

I know how dedicated most Teachers are. With the Education they have most could certainly be paid more in other jobs.

My Son is an Engineer and is one of the few who are in a Union. He has seen the destruction imposed on many workers on the floor and it really makes him angry. One of the rare few who think about their workers.Do not kid yourself,if Republican get their way the middle class is going down. I have watched the destruction because a few were greedy in the Union and got in bed with the bosses.

My Son sat in on contract negotiations and has seen more than he cares to.

 

[Dave]

While setting up our booth at the OTC we had to go get a work order for a forklift operator. He showed up workorder in hand and started to off load our display he lowered it to ground level and just stopped doing anything. After a couple of minutes we asked what was the matter. His reply was the display had a steel frame and we had to go get an ironworker to supervise his forklift driving. All in all it was trying on the patience and nothing but a an exercise in inefficiency

I have dealt with unions at tradeshows as well. It's total bullshit.

 

[degsme]

I have dealt with unions at tradeshows as well. It's total bullshit.

How so? Trade shows are "fast and furious" followed by long periods of fallowness. Union requirements at tradeshows create an incentive for the venue bookers to keep the usually tax payer funded venue, as full as possible.

You keep forgetting the offsetting factors and only see the hassle factors

 

[MaryAnne]

So much truth there, MaryAnne.. re: Unions -- plus their efforts and demands in making the work place safe, environmentally healthy, as possible, for workers..decent wages, benefits, makes for happy workers and happy workers usually means better productivity...from my POV.

So.. miners, factory workers, plus skilled white collar workers, etc. benefit by having unions. I thought the movie, Norma Rae, was great in the way it portrayed why Unions are necessary.

I loved that movie, Addy. Having been close to the Union movement all my adult life I find it infuriating when someone blames everything on the Unions.

Where do they think the greed comes from? Look at the mess we have today.Union members ahve taken all kinds of cuts,but you do not see that in Management. They just get bigger and more expensive.

 

[connieb]

I don't know - you would have to ask that board of directors.

Sometimes it is difficult to add all the little daily incompetencies in documentation that actually accounts for a looser employee. Some times an employee is just a PITA. Sometimes they don't have a good attitude. And, yes sometimes you just don't like them - but since productiviity depends on people working well together - if you have a person who is throwing that out of whack - then there is no point in keeping them.

So yes, I do agree with firing people for any reason not already protected by law.... i.e. race, gender, etc. But, we have already been through this.

 

[connieb]

Yes teachers, we need good ones and not ones that feel they have a job, no matter what.

I am so embarrassed, I edited when I read I typed 'there' instead of 'their' but when it was quoted it did not take the edit. My teacher daughter had better not see this. lol

Lilly - I wasn't asking you if you had a point. Sorry that wasn't clear. I did get your point FWIW and agree.

 

[lupehernandezdepedajack]

How so? Trade shows are "fast and furious" followed by long periods of fallowness. Union requirements at tradeshows create an incentive for the venue bookers to keep the usually tax payer funded venue, as full as possible.

You keep forgetting the offsetting factors and only see the hassle factors

The only thing not fast and furious at a tradeshow are the Teamsters

 

[degsme]

The only thing not fast and furious at a tradeshow are the Teamsters

And why should they be? How is your failure to plan a crisis on their part?

 

[connieb]

LOl.

 

[Jen]

Unions started up to protect the workers. They served a good purpose at that time, but like many good things, they've grown into a big strong effort in the direction of "screw everybody but me".

I see unions being a huge detriment to progress and a huge contributor to our bad economy. Just my opinion.