Unions know so much about running businesses

[lupehernandezdepedajack]

They have. They market and sell labor capital. yes and?

BTW Unions often know more about running the business than the Execs precisely because Unions are actually doing the work and know where the bottlenecks are.

You are exactly correct, my bad I wasn't considering how lucrative extorting paychecks, fellow taxpayers, and Corporations is.

 

[JackDallas]

They have. They market and sell labor capital. yes and?
BTW Unions often know more about running the business than the Execs precisely because Unions are actually doing the work and know where the bottlenecks are.

They know where the bottlenecks are because THEY are the bottlenecks.

 

[Sgt Staples]

That is rather funny since most union shops don't do residential, mostly because they can't compete. And, the only union electricians I know are not actually licensed electricians. See, they only need to have so many licensed ( that would be a Master's license) on any one job. So, most of the guys who are actually stringing the wires are doing so under someone else's licenses.

Where as in most states to have a home improvement licenses, you actually have to have a higher % of your employees have their master licenses because you have to have a master supervising on every job. And, since many small residential jobs are one man jobs, that generally means the guy they have to send out is the one who has the master license. So, if you walk into a Electrical Union hall and ask for some electrical work... chances are you are more likely to get an less qualified person than if you call any electrical service in the phone book.

connie

Yep, unions are great at running businesses......into the ground. 18,000 Hostess employees found that out, that same with Levi Strauss employees who's jobs went to Mexico.

There are many other examples. Unions are the Do-Do bird of Captitalism

 

[degsme]

Yep, unions are great at running businesses......into the ground. 18,000 Hostess employees found that out, that same with Levi Strauss employees who's jobs went to Mexico.

The unions had nothing to do with Hostess filing for bankruptcy. It was a combination of incompetent management not anticipating that Twinkies and SnoBalls had become laughing stock

And because Managment wanted to use bankruptcy to break the Union contract to increase profits.

FACTS Sargie

 

[degsme]

You are exacly correct my bad I wasn't considering how lucrative extorting paychecks and Corporations is.

Where's the extortion?

Its no more extortion than the corporation refusing to give you the product unless you pay them what they ask.

 

[degsme]

They know where the bottlenecks are because THEY are the bottlenecks.

Really?

So GM's problem in the 1980s and 1990s in losing market share was because they couldn't build those great cars fast enough?

Or was it clownschool management that thought they could shovel crap cars out the door and hope the public would not notice?

 

[Sgt Staples]

The unions had nothing to do with Hostess filing for bankruptcy. It was a combination of incompetent management not anticipating that Twinkies and SnoBalls had become laughing stock

And because Managment wanted to use bankruptcy to break the Union contract to increase profits.

FACTS Sargie

For someone who isn't a farmer, you sure are good at spreading Manure

Here's the facts, wiseacre.

The UNIONS went on STRIKE because they were demanding that Hostess used Separate vehicles to deliver bread and snacks, when one vehicle could be used for the purpose. And they went on STRIKE to demand that two people be on each of those two trucks, one to drive and one to unload.

This doubled the overhead that Hostess had to pay. They could no longer make those PROFITS that you Obama supporters so hate.

So they went bankrupt. GET IT!

The same thing that will eventually happen to GM, Ford and Chrysler if they don't get rid of the UAW; that is, unless GM, Ford and Chrysler get smart and move to right to work states.

Oh wait, they don't have to now. Michigan is a right to work state.

 

[Craig]

For someone who isn't a farmer, you sure are good at spreading Manure

Here's the facts, wiseacre.

The UNIONS went on STRIKE because they were demanding that Hostess used Separate vehicles to deliver bread and snacks, when one vehicle could be used for the purpose. And they went on STRIKE to demand that two people be on each of those two trucks, one to drive and one to unload.

This doubled the overhead that Hostess had to pay. They could no longer make those PROFITS that you Obama supporters so hate.

So they went bankrupt. GET IT!

The same thing that will eventually happen to GM, Ford and Chrysler if they don't get rid of the UAW; that is, unless GM, Ford and Chrysler get smart and move to right to work states.

Oh wait, they don't have to now. Michigan is a right to work state.

Teamsters had settled...Bakers had not. Still...Hostess was the victim of a leveraged buyout. This was done with knowledge that the management was terrible...so I'd say the goal was to take the money and run...and blame bakers for the problem.

 

[Craig]

Really?

So GM's problem in the 1980s and 1990s in losing market share was because they couldn't build those great cars fast enough?

Or was it clownschool management that thought they could shovel crap cars out the door and hope the public would not notice?

Really...who didn't want one of these beauties???

 

[lupehernandezdepedajack]

Where's the extortion?

Its no more extortion than the corporation refusing to give you the product unless you pay them what they ask.

Yep when you refuse to pay 2500.00 for an HP you can go to a Dell or a Toshiba

right to work laws gives employers the same option as consumers have

And to go even further in Wi. they found out that the exclsivity of Health Insurance Providers specified in the teacher's contract looks more and more like corrupt extortion and cost the School Districts millions if not billions over the years. With the current changes in the law the state and districts went out for competetive bids and received competetive offers that saved a lot of moolah for the taxpayers footing the bill for teacher's Health Insurance.

Looks like extortion to me

 

[JackDallas]

Few legitimate contractors, Union or Merit shops, can compete profitably in the residential industry without using illegal aliens for labor. Companies can get around this by hiring a labor contractor (almost alway a Mexican) who in turn hires illegals and signs the requisite forms declaring that all payroll taxes will be paid. This allows the primary contractor to avoid the tax issue. It's a bullshit scam but it is, or was, used extensively in the trade when I was managing work.

I don't know where you got your information about companies having to have a master on every job. That is simply not true. Most states require at least one Journeyman on every job. Some states have varying ratios. When I lived in Colorado, the ratio was 3-1) 3 helpers for 1 Journeyman. No where in the country, as far as I know, do they require a master to be on the job.

That is rather funny since most union shops don't do residential, mostly because they can't compete. And, the only union electricians I know are not actually licensed electricians. See, they only need to have so many licensed ( that would be a Master's license) on any one job. So, most of the guys who are actually stringing the wires are doing so under someone else's licenses.

Where as in most states to have a home improvement licenses, you actually have to have a higher % of your employees have their master licenses because you have to have a master supervising on every job. And, since many small residential jobs are one man jobs, that generally means the guy they have to send out is the one who has the master license. So, if you walk into a Electrical Union hall and ask for some electrical work... chances are you are more likely to get an less qualified person than if you call any electrical service in the phone book.

connie

 

[JackDallas]

That sounds like bullshit to me; but it might be required by Unions. It is not typically required by local jurisdictions. But if you're talking about working energized busses and conductors then you may be right. Most companies now have safety programs that do not allow workers to work anything HOT.

Is that right Jack, we had a master Plumber and a master electrician where I worked. If you don't the electricians can not hook up any thing to dirrect power without someone with a masters lic to inspect it. So once again, you know JACK SHIT.

Maybe in those Red states any yahoo like you could do anything they wanted, but not states where the people are more important than the profits.

 

[JackDallas]

Bad management and crippling labor rates.

Really?

So GM's problem in the 1980s and 1990s in losing market share was because they couldn't build those great cars fast enough?

Or was it clownschool management that thought they could shovel crap cars out the door and hope the public would not notice?

 

[connieb]

My clients in the industry have said that they are required to have a master oversee and sign off on each job in order to get their permits processed. So, for residential repairs and small jobs - they generally only send master's out because a Master has to sign off anyway. This is very very different than new construction where there the job can be 400 houses and then there is only one master and then the ratios come into play. But, then part of that is liability related. This is a very litigious state.

I know when ever we have hired independent electricians pretty much its just been the owners that have come out. And, they were the holders of the Master's license. Personally, if the person who came out to my house wasn't the license holder, I would call the company and just tell them to forget it. Aside from new construction projects, I have never had a company send out a repair or small project person who was just some guy on the cheap - illegal or otherwise. I would not do business with a company that did that. But, I do see it all the time in new construction.


connie

 

[JackDallas]

It requires a master electrician to get a state contractor license, which is required to pull a permit, which is required to do any electrical wotk other than simple repairs. The companu's master electrician in effect signs off on every job the company does. The scneario you describe ,a master on every residential repair and small job is jut not true. There are not enough master electricians to go around for that to happen. Plus, it would be cost prohibitive.

If a master electrician is out doing a small residential job then he is working for himself as a 1 man shop. Btw, which state is this that requires what you stated?

My clients in the industry have said that they are required to have a master oversee and sign off on each job in order to get their permits processed. So, for residential repairs and small jobs - they generally only send master's out because a Master has to sign off anyway. This is very very different than new construction where there the job can be 400 houses and then there is only one master and then the ratios come into play. But, then part of that is liability related. This is a very litigious state.

I know when ever we have hired independent electricians pretty much its just been the owners that have come out. And, they were the holders of the Master's license. Personally, if the person who came out to my house wasn't the license holder, I would call the company and just tell them to forget it. Aside from new construction projects, I have never had a company send out a repair or small project person who was just some guy on the cheap - illegal or otherwise. I would not do business with a company that did that. But, I do see it all the time in new construction.


connie

 

[lupehernandezdepedajack]

Still no answer on how come there are no companies owned and operated by Union lackeys that give in to every demand of the workers since they are brothers in the fight