Warning - offensive topic and theories below. Proceed with caution.

[as seen on tv]

Is “black urban culture” the common factor behind Ray Rice and Michael Brown?

In various other threads on this board, people are debating why Ray Rice KO'd his fiancé. Some (including this writer) are suggesting redemption and a path to greater self control through anger management and counseling. (Full disclosure – my suggestion was facetious – I doubt it would have much effect).

That’s because I don’t think Ray Rice’s problem springs from a lack of “self control”. Rather, I suggest (sincerely) that his violence comes from "black america's cultural values".

Here’s an analogy - take radical islam, for example. Wife beating and selling girls like livestock isn’t uncommon in this culture. Arabs (or muslims from other races/regions) aren’t a race of Neanderthals, though. This is the culture that invented modern mathematics, international trade, and basic accounting principles. But Islam is also a culture that fervently believes in the inherent superiority of the male - intellectual, moral, and physical.

The same also appears to be true of "latino culture". Anyone who has ever watched a “telenova” or one of those spanish language variety shows – even if you can’t speak Spanish – immediately understands that most women are dressed like, and treated like, sex toys. And that most latino men would flat out refuse to work for a woman supervisor.

Back to Ray Rice and Michael Brown. America’s "black culture" isn't homogenous, certainly. But if you google "the knockout game", attacks on black students for “acting white”, “pimping” etc . .. what you get as search results are hollywood's take on black culture. (Am I allowed to wonder why Islam has such an attraction in the 'hood, and some black men take apparent delight in forcing their women to dress like arab goat herders? If this is too disturbing, I withdraw the suggestion.)

Americas black culture has a longstanding tradition of degrading and acting violently toward women. And consider this - other than rap, is there another Grammy musical category where the typical lyrics refer to women as "bitches and ho's", and glorify the thug life? When was the last time a Nashville or Jazz musician lurked outside a clubs and sprayed patrons with gunfire to settle some grudge?

I sincerely doubt that “Wife Beating Treatment Centers of America” would do any good for the typical abuser in Saudi Arabia, Uruguay, or the hood. It’s not about anger management. It’s something these guys carry around in their heart, learned early in childhood.

 

[Tameamea]

If you learn something in your childhood, it doesn't mean you can't learn anything else or anything different. Like there's one language you typically learn in your childhood, but you can learn many other languages while growing up or as an adult.
I believe it's true for the cultural patterns, too. Of course, it would be harder and would take much more effort, but it's possible.
The thing is, no one cares about changing the pattern. The fact that everybody is just closing their eyes on what's happening in isolated groups gives those people a sort of silent ratification to live on as they are used too...
In my opinion, it's not only race or culture. It is how the society functions as a whole.

 

[as seen on tv]

If you learn something in your childhood, it doesn't mean you can't learn anything else or anything different. Like there's one language you typically learn in your childhood, but you can learn many other languages while growing up or as an adult.
I believe it's true for the cultural patterns, too. Of course, it would be harder and would take much more effort, but it's possible.
The thing is, no one cares about changing the pattern. The fact that everybody is just closing their eyes on what's happening in isolated groups gives those people a sort of silent ratification to live on as they are used too...
In my opinion, it's not only race or culture. It is how the society functions as a whole.

thanks for your reply. i'm certainly NOT suggesting that one cannot "unlearn" disrespect towards women, or believing that fists and guns are the first recourse to any perceived slight.

that said, its a lot harder to break habits than keep them from forming in the first place.

remember when mike tyson was charged with raping the beauty contestant? he was immediately surrounded by black clergymen, who declared that mike was a "good" person, and questioning why the girl was mike's hotel room, if the crime actually took place at all . . .

 

[Colorforms]

Is “black urban culture” the common factor behind Ray Rice and Michael Brown?

In various other threads on this board, people are debating why Ray Rice KO'd his fiancé. Some (including this writer) are suggesting redemption and a path to greater self control through anger management and counseling. (Full disclosure – my suggestion was facetious – I doubt it would have much effect).

That’s because I don’t think Ray Rice’s problem springs from a lack of “self control”. Rather, I suggest (sincerely) that his violence comes from "black america's cultural values".

Here’s an analogy - take radical islam, for example. Wife beating and selling girls like livestock isn’t uncommon in this culture. Arabs (or muslims from other races/regions) aren’t a race of Neanderthals, though. This is the culture that invented modern mathematics, international trade, and basic accounting principles. But Islam is also a culture that fervently believes in the inherent superiority of the male - intellectual, moral, and physical.

The same also appears to be true of "latino culture". Anyone who has ever watched a “telenova” or one of those spanish language variety shows – even if you can’t speak Spanish – immediately understands that most women are dressed like, and treated like, sex toys. And that most latino men would flat out refuse to work for a woman supervisor.

Back to Ray Rice and Michael Brown. America’s "black culture" isn't homogenous, certainly. But if you google "the knockout game", attacks on black students for “acting white”, “pimping” etc . .. what you get as search results are hollywood's take on black culture. (Am I allowed to wonder why Islam has such an attraction in the 'hood, and some black men take apparent delight in forcing their women to dress like arab goat herders? If this is too disturbing, I withdraw the suggestion.)

Americas black culture has a longstanding tradition of degrading and acting violently toward women. And consider this - other than rap, is there another Grammy musical category where the typical lyrics refer to women as "bitches and ho's", and glorify the thug life? When was the last time a Nashville or Jazz musician lurked outside a clubs and sprayed patrons with gunfire to settle some grudge?

I sincerely doubt that “Wife Beating Treatment Centers of America” would do any good for the typical abuser in Saudi Arabia, Uruguay, or the hood. It’s not about anger management. It’s something these guys carry around in their heart, learned early in childhood.

I do believe that much of the violence inherent in black society is cultural. Families passing down the belief that blacks will never get a fair shake in today's society, coupled with gang and alpha male mentality in order to garner respect among peers, have made black culture violent and male oriented.

 

[connieb]

Is “black urban culture” the common factor behind Ray Rice and Michael Brown?

In various other threads on this board, people are debating why Ray Rice KO'd his fiancé. Some (including this writer) are suggesting redemption and a path to greater self control through anger management and counseling. (Full disclosure – my suggestion was facetious – I doubt it would have much effect).

That’s because I don’t think Ray Rice’s problem springs from a lack of “self control”. Rather, I suggest (sincerely) that his violence comes from "black america's cultural values".

Here’s an analogy - take radical islam, for example. Wife beating and selling girls like livestock isn’t uncommon in this culture. Arabs (or muslims from other races/regions) aren’t a race of Neanderthals, though. This is the culture that invented modern mathematics, international trade, and basic accounting principles. But Islam is also a culture that fervently believes in the inherent superiority of the male - intellectual, moral, and physical.

The same also appears to be true of "latino culture". Anyone who has ever watched a “telenova” or one of those spanish language variety shows – even if you can’t speak Spanish – immediately understands that most women are dressed like, and treated like, sex toys. And that most latino men would flat out refuse to work for a woman supervisor.

Back to Ray Rice and Michael Brown. America’s "black culture" isn't homogenous, certainly. But if you google "the knockout game", attacks on black students for “acting white”, “pimping” etc . .. what you get as search results are hollywood's take on black culture. (Am I allowed to wonder why Islam has such an attraction in the 'hood, and some black men take apparent delight in forcing their women to dress like arab goat herders? If this is too disturbing, I withdraw the suggestion.)

Americas black culture has a longstanding tradition of degrading and acting violently toward women. And consider this - other than rap, is there another Grammy musical category where the typical lyrics refer to women as "bitches and ho's", and glorify the thug life? When was the last time a Nashville or Jazz musician lurked outside a clubs and sprayed patrons with gunfire to settle some grudge?

I sincerely doubt that “Wife Beating Treatment Centers of America” would do any good for the typical abuser in Saudi Arabia, Uruguay, or the hood. It’s not about anger management. It’s something these guys carry around in their heart, learned early in childhood.

I agree to a large extent that when you are an abuser and equally - when you seek out and participate in abusive relationships - it is learned behavior. I personally think that the physical abuse - is a much more common learned behavior in low socieconmic groups. Be that poor black inner city - or poor white and rural. There is something eminently "trashy" about getting into a physical altercation. And, also something extremely low class and trashy about not being able to hold your liquor. both of which occured in this scenario.

There are people though whose lives are one big episode of Jerry Springer - minus heavies to break up the fights. They women fight the men and other women of their groups, the men fight the woman and other men of the groups. I have been around enough drunk trailer park trash, to know that getting drunk or just plain being mouthy and belligerant and having a physical altercation result from that isn't just a inner city black thing nor is it so much about male superiority.Although that is of course a factor in much of this. But, more - honestly, its just about low class trashy people who recreate the low class trashyiness that was their lives and experiences.

I can not even comprehend physically assaulting my husband, or him phyiscally assulting me. Not because we haven't gotten mad and lost our tempers and argued, but becasue some lines are so ingrained in us that I couldn't cross it. It is quite frankly beneath me to scream at him in public, or spit on him. As much as it is beneath him to cuss at me and hit me. That kind of behavior is simply - reserved for those who have no class. You can be raised rich and of course also have no class, but frequently - you at LEAST if you are raised rich, have the good sense to not behave like an animal in public. You be behave like it in private, but you have learned there is a public face, and a private face. I think the biggest and most obvious difference between classes of people is WHO has learned this and who has not. Its almost always the lower classes ( until social media at least) who didn't have any differences in their private and public behavior. And, what we have witnessed here is just the old addage about you can take the person from the ghetto/hood/trailer park, but you can't take the ghetto/hood/trailerpark out of the person.

connie

 

[as seen on tv]

I agree to a large extent that when you are an abuser and equally - when you seek out and participate in abusive relationships - it is learned behavior. I personally think that the physical abuse - is a much more common learned behavior in low socieconmic groups. Be that poor black inner city - or poor white and rural. There is something eminently "trashy" about getting into a physical altercation. And, also something extremely low class and trashy about not being able to hold your liquor. both of which occured in this scenario.

There are people though whose lives are one big episode of Jerry Springer - minus heavies to break up the fights. They women fight the men and other women of their groups, the men fight the woman and other men of the groups. I have been around enough drunk trailer park trash, to know that getting drunk or just plain being mouthy and belligerant and having a physical altercation result from that isn't just a inner city black thing nor is it so much about male superiority.Although that is of course a factor in much of this. But, more - honestly, its just about low class trashy people who recreate the low class trashyiness that was their lives and experiences.

I can not even comprehend physically assaulting my husband, or him phyiscally assulting me. Not because we haven't gotten mad and lost our tempers and argued, but becasue some lines are so ingrained in us that I couldn't cross it. It is quite frankly beneath me to scream at him in public, or spit on him. As much as it is beneath him to cuss at me and hit me. That kind of behavior is simply - reserved for those who have no class. You can be raised rich and of course also have no class, but frequently - you at LEAST if you are raised rich, have the good sense to not behave like an animal in public. You be behave like it in private, but you have learned there is a public face, and a private face. I think the biggest and most obvious difference between classes of people is WHO has learned this and who has not. Its almost always the lower classes ( until social media at least) who didn't have any differences in their private and public behavior. And, what we have witnessed here is just the old addage about you can take the person from the ghetto/hood/trailer park, but you can't take the ghetto/hood/trailerpark out of the person.

connie

drunkeness - and certain other abused substances (meth?) seem to amplify and trigger violent impulses for sure.

and "wife beater" shirts are a white/trailer trash trope.

one might also suggest that white/trailer trash culture - to the extent that it intersects with "conservative religions" (snake handling/southern evangelical/speaking in tongues varieties) are a reinforcing mechanism. my impression (not substantiated by any actual scientific studies) is that rural/southern protestant churches are more likely to overlook violence towards women than your average catholic diocese or synogogue.

but trailer trash and snake handling evangelicals don't emit an unremitting drumbeat of violence towards women as a cultural value. there are no bluegrass songs glorifiying the pimping out of "peggy sue". the closest one comes is the cutesy hollywood portrayals of hatfield/mccoy feuds, which usually end up getting comedic treatment rather than "hicksploitation" glorification of mass shootings.

 

[BitterPill]

Is “black urban culture” the common factor behind Ray Rice and Michael Brown?

In various other threads on this board, people are debating why Ray Rice KO'd his fiancé. Some (including this writer) are suggesting redemption and a path to greater self control through anger management and counseling. (Full disclosure – my suggestion was facetious – I doubt it would have much effect).

That’s because I don’t think Ray Rice’s problem springs from a lack of “self control”. Rather, I suggest (sincerely) that his violence comes from "black america's cultural values".

Here’s an analogy - take radical islam, for example. Wife beating and selling girls like livestock isn’t uncommon in this culture. Arabs (or muslims from other races/regions) aren’t a race of Neanderthals, though. This is the culture that invented modern mathematics, international trade, and basic accounting principles. But Islam is also a culture that fervently believes in the inherent superiority of the male - intellectual, moral, and physical.

The same also appears to be true of "latino culture". Anyone who has ever watched a “telenova” or one of those spanish language variety shows – even if you can’t speak Spanish – immediately understands that most women are dressed like, and treated like, sex toys. And that most latino men would flat out refuse to work for a woman supervisor.

Back to Ray Rice and Michael Brown. America’s "black culture" isn't homogenous, certainly. But if you google "the knockout game", attacks on black students for “acting white”, “pimping” etc . .. what you get as search results are hollywood's take on black culture. (Am I allowed to wonder why Islam has such an attraction in the 'hood, and some black men take apparent delight in forcing their women to dress like arab goat herders? If this is too disturbing, I withdraw the suggestion.)

Americas black culture has a longstanding tradition of degrading and acting violently toward women. And consider this - other than rap, is there another Grammy musical category where the typical lyrics refer to women as "bitches and ho's", and glorify the thug life? When was the last time a Nashville or Jazz musician lurked outside a clubs and sprayed patrons with gunfire to settle some grudge?

I sincerely doubt that “Wife Beating Treatment Centers of America” would do any good for the typical abuser in Saudi Arabia, Uruguay, or the hood. It’s not about anger management. It’s something these guys carry around in their heart, learned early in childhood.

Brown was murdered, and Rice beat a woman, so your analogy connecting the two is false from the start.

What I hear you saying is that blacks are violent and lack self-control because of Islam. That is so crazy I wonder what force could be playing in your head, and there is only the one answer.

 

[Addy]

Compassion for the victim on Fox & Friends hard to express apparently...
_______________________________________

Uploaded on Sep 8, 2014
The host of "Fox & Friends" on Monday turned video of NFL player Ray Rice punching his then-girlfriend unconscious in a elevator into a joke, saying that in the future she should "take the stairs."

Fox & Friends Hosts Reach New Lows Joking About Ray Rice’s Brutal Attack on Janay Palmer
I just watched one of the most flippant, inappropriate segments concerning domestic violence I think I’ve ever witnessed. So it doesn’t surprise me that this pathetic display comes from the “good folks” over at Fox News.
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/fox-friends-hosts-reach-new-lows-joking-ray-rices-brutal-attack-janay-palmer/

 

[RickWA]

Compassion for the victim on Fox & Friends hard to express apparently...
_______________________________________

Uploaded on Sep 8, 2014
The host of "Fox & Friends" on Monday turned video of NFL player Ray Rice punching his then-girlfriend unconscious in a elevator into a joke, saying that in the future she should "take the stairs."

Fox & Friends Hosts Reach New Lows Joking About Ray Rice’s Brutal Attack on Janay Palmer
I just watched one of the most flippant, inappropriate segments concerning domestic violence I think I’ve ever witnessed. So it doesn’t surprise me that this pathetic display comes from the “good folks” over at Fox News.
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/fox-friends-hosts-reach-new-lows-joking-ray-rices-brutal-attack-janay-palmer/

I suppose that's one way to salvage some partisan points from yet another horrific episode.

 

[Addy]

I suppose that's one way to salvage some partisan points from yet another horrific episode.

Just making a valid point regarding lack of compassion being shown for a victim of domestic violence ..

 

[Colorforms]

Just making a valid point regarding lack of compassion being shown for a victim of domestic violence ..

Maybe if they simply went to play golf instead?

 

[Addy]

Pres. Obama made a compassionate statement re: Foley/ISIS, nothing he said was flippant as those remarks made on Fox.
If he had shown despair/and lots of disruption in his activities over the horrible incident-- ISIS would have been even more gleeful/cheering at their barbaric act.
_________________________________

Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts
12:52 P.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon, everybody. Today, the entire world is appalled by the brutal murder of Jim Foley by the terrorist group, ISIL.

Jim was a journalist, a son, a brother, and a friend. He reported from difficult and dangerous places, bearing witness to the lives of people a world away. He was taken hostage nearly two years ago in Syria, and he was courageously reporting at the time on the conflict there.

Jim was taken from us in an act of violence that shocks the conscience of the entire world. He was 40 years old -- one of five siblings, the son of a mom and dad who worked tirelessly for his release. Earlier today, I spoke to the Foleys and told them that we are all heartbroken at their loss, and join them in honoring Jim and all that he did.

Jim Foley’s life stands in stark contrast to his killers. Let’s be clear about ISIL. They have rampaged across cities and villages -- killing innocent, unarmed civilians in cowardly acts of violence. They abduct women and children, and subject them to torture and rape and slavery. They have murdered Muslims -- both Sunni and Shia -- by the thousands. They target Christians and religious minorities, driving them from their homes, murdering them when they can for no other reason than they practice a different religion. They declared their ambition to commit genocide against an ancient people.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/08/20/statement-president

 

[Guthrie]

Is “black urban culture” the common factor behind Ray Rice and Michael Brown?

In various other threads on this board, people are debating why Ray Rice KO'd his fiancé. Some (including this writer) are suggesting redemption and a path to greater self control through anger management and counseling. (Full disclosure – my suggestion was facetious – I doubt it would have much effect).

That’s because I don’t think Ray Rice’s problem springs from a lack of “self control”. Rather, I suggest (sincerely) that his violence comes from "black america's cultural values".

Here’s an analogy - take radical islam, for example. Wife beating and selling girls like livestock isn’t uncommon in this culture. Arabs (or muslims from other races/regions) aren’t a race of Neanderthals, though. This is the culture that invented modern mathematics, international trade, and basic accounting principles. But Islam is also a culture that fervently believes in the inherent superiority of the male - intellectual, moral, and physical.

The same also appears to be true of "latino culture". Anyone who has ever watched a “telenova” or one of those spanish language variety shows – even if you can’t speak Spanish – immediately understands that most women are dressed like, and treated like, sex toys. And that most latino men would flat out refuse to work for a woman supervisor.

Back to Ray Rice and Michael Brown. America’s "black culture" isn't homogenous, certainly. But if you google "the knockout game", attacks on black students for “acting white”, “pimping” etc . .. what you get as search results are hollywood's take on black culture. (Am I allowed to wonder why Islam has such an attraction in the 'hood, and some black men take apparent delight in forcing their women to dress like arab goat herders? If this is too disturbing, I withdraw the suggestion.)

Americas black culture has a longstanding tradition of degrading and acting violently toward women. And consider this - other than rap, is there another Grammy musical category where the typical lyrics refer to women as "bitches and ho's", and glorify the thug life? When was the last time a Nashville or Jazz musician lurked outside a clubs and sprayed patrons with gunfire to settle some grudge?

I sincerely doubt that “Wife Beating Treatment Centers of America” would do any good for the typical abuser in Saudi Arabia, Uruguay, or the hood. It’s not about anger management. It’s something these guys carry around in their heart, learned early in childhood.

Odd that black athletes are going nuts on ray rice right now.

Also odd that one in three women in college are sexual assualted. Of course most college men are white. Also odd that most child predators are white.

Also odd that white and black domestic violence is about equal. Also odd that if you control for poverty most domestic violence is dine by white people

Annoying facts tgat destroy your moronic premise.

I know I know facts don't matter.

By the way the content of your post isn't offensive. The fact that you think a semi competent human would buy it is.

 

[Guthrie]

I agree to a large extent that when you are an abuser and equally - when you seek out and participate in abusive relationships - it is learned behavior. I personally think that the physical abuse - is a much more common learned behavior in low socieconmic groups. Be that poor black inner city - or poor white and rural. There is something eminently "trashy" about getting into a physical altercation. And, also something extremely low class and trashy about not being able to hold your liquor. both of which occured in this scenario.

There are people though whose lives are one big episode of Jerry Springer - minus heavies to break up the fights. They women fight the men and other women of their groups, the men fight the woman and other men of the groups. I have been around enough drunk trailer park trash, to know that getting drunk or just plain being mouthy and belligerant and having a physical altercation result from that isn't just a inner city black thing nor is it so much about male superiority.Although that is of course a factor in much of this. But, more - honestly, its just about low class trashy people who recreate the low class trashyiness that was their lives and experiences.

I can not even comprehend physically assaulting my husband, or him phyiscally assulting me. Not because we haven't gotten mad and lost our tempers and argued, but becasue some lines are so ingrained in us that I couldn't cross it. It is quite frankly beneath me to scream at him in public, or spit on him. As much as it is beneath him to cuss at me and hit me. That kind of behavior is simply - reserved for those who have no class. You can be raised rich and of course also have no class, but frequently - you at LEAST if you are raised rich, have the good sense to not behave like an animal in public. You be behave like it in private, but you have learned there is a public face, and a private face. I think the biggest and most obvious difference between classes of people is WHO has learned this and who has not. Its almost always the lower classes ( until social media at least) who didn't have any differences in their private and public behavior. And, what we have witnessed here is just the old addage about you can take the person from the ghetto/hood/trailer park, but you can't take the ghetto/hood/trailerpark out of the person.

connie

Hence my entire point about education to you that you disputed and now are using as an argument.

Though the terms you phrased this in are vile, horrific and trashy.

 

[Colorforms]

Pres. Obama made a compassionate statement re: Foley/ISIS, nothing he said was flippant as those remarks made on Fox.
If he had shown despair/and lots of disruption in his activities over the horrible incident-- ISIS would have been even more gleeful/cheering at their barbaric act.

Ah, so Barry was just flipping ISIL the bird when he went to play golf directly after his "compassionate" statement, "Screw the optics, I'm going to show ISIS that they can't fluster me, no matter how many Americans they kill. FOUR!!"

He's a rascally one, that Obama is.

 

[BitterPill]

Ah, so Barry was just flipping ISIL the bird when he went to play golf directly after his "compassionate" statement, "Screw the optics, I'm going to show ISIS that they can't fluster me, no matter how many Americans they kill. FOUR!!"

He's a rascally one, that Obama is.

Golf enthusiasts are definitely rascals.

 

[Colorforms]

Odd that black athletes are going nuts on ray rice right now.

Also odd that one in three women in college are sexual assualted. Of course most college men are white. Also odd that most child predators are white.

Also odd that white and black domestic violence is about equal. Also odd that if you control for poverty most domestic violence is dine by white people

Annoying facts tgat destroy your moronic premise.

I know I know facts don't matter.

By the way the content of your post isn't offensive. The fact that you think a semi competent human would buy it is.

Racial and Ethnic trends: Black women and men suffer from the highest rates of domestic violence. "Black females experienced domestic violence at a rate 35% higher than that of white females, and about 22 times the rate of women of other races. Black males experienced domestic violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white males and about 22 times the rate of men of other races."

http://www.findcounseling.com/journal/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-statistics.html

 

[Addy]

Ah, so Barry was just flipping ISIL the bird when he went to play golf directly after his "compassionate" statement, "Screw the optics, I'm going to show ISIS that they can't fluster me, no matter how many Americans they kill. FOUR!!"

He's a rascally one, that Obama is.

Much smarter with lots more savvy in all depts than the last WH presidential rascal that played golf..

 

[Colorforms]

Much smarter with lots more savvy in all depts than the last WH presidential rascal that played golf..

Wow, if you say so Addy.

The last WH presidential rascal that played golf quit, because people were starting to wonder about the optics. The current WH presidential rascal that played golf doesn't seem to give a damn what anyone thinks. I consider that a poor quality in the president of all of the people of these United States, including Foley's family.

 

[BitterPill]

Golf enthusiasts are definitely rascals.