We're Rapidly Becoming Europe.

[imreallyperplexed]

For some folks, Appalachia is the center of the universe.

Here is a famous cover from the New Yorker that is one of my favorites. My guess is that we could make a similar cover that referenced Sarge's perspective of the world from his "six acres in God's country."

Appalachia is not the center of the universe.

 

[imreallyperplexed]

I go to Europe two to three times a year on business. I am well aware of what is going on. I expect that there will be a fair amount of unrest. I do not expect an apocalypse. You should get off your six acres more often.

I guess you haven't heard of what's happening in Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy and France.

As a matter of fact, even though Germany has a debt bomb coming too, they are in better shape than the rest of Europe and are being asked to bail those countries out.

Germany's well on its way to returning to it's traditional currency and getting off the Euro.

When that happens, watch out, the government of Europe and the Civil societies all across Europe collapse. And when that happens it won't be pretty.

 

[Lukey]

yeah, they pay for the services they expect from their government and run an efficient country. so whats your point?

And they have a much smaller permanent welfare class and a culture that values work over leisure.

 

[gabriel]

exactly. your culture on the other hand graduates wall street goons and lawyers. but as for the other problem, call up el cid, i hear he has some solutions for that one!!

 

[Wulk]

Where do you get the "limited home ownership" crap from? Never heard of "the right to buy"?

 

[gabriel]

americans cannot conceive of a culture that does not consider homeownership to be the most important human desire on the face of the earth.

 

[Wulk]

It's more expensive Sgt because they don't get the "free" Govt cheese that you get in America. Your food, and gas, are heavily subsidised by the Govt. Let's hear you screech for the gas, and food, socialised subsidies to be done away with - the silence is overwhelming!

 

[gabriel]

you understand that their mortgage payments are tax deductible?? can u imagine that??

 

[Craig]

And they have a much smaller permanent welfare class and a culture that values work over leisure.

Germans get 35 days of paid vacation per year....and they take it.

 

[gabriel]

good point

 

[Craig]

good point

There are many different aspects of their society that result in lower home ownership. One...well...they lost a lot of stuff in WWII...so apartment blocks were built to house the people. Thus, apartments became the norm in the city. Berlin is a renter's city...there just aren't many single family houses. Now...some of these apartments are amazing...as in any great city. And the percenatge of home ownership outside the cities is close the US figures...

And...like you mentioned...a different attitude regarding homes as investments versus...well...homes.


"The acute housing shortage lasted well into the 1970s, so apartment blocks and multi-family dwellings went up very quickly," said Just, who added that renting has been historically far more attractive than buying. "Though high demand forced prices up, rents remained very stable and affordable. That the landlord was often the city or some public entity implicitly meant that rents were subsidized, and below market value."


Unlike other Europeans, most Germans live in apartments rather than single family houses, where home ownership rates are much higher....

...Real estate experts also predict that home ownership rates will rise simply because of a shift in demographics, as the war generation, who were mostly renters, dies out. Among middle-aged baby boomers, almost 60 percent are home owners and favor a suburban rowhouse with a garden and white picket fence...


..."In the US, a house is a commodity," he said. "You buy your first apartment as a single, then sell and buy a bigger one when you are a couple, then upgrade to a house when you have kids, then move to a condo when the kids have left home. For Germans, a house is for life, so they invest their soul and a lot of capital into this one house. Germans haven't learned that houses have re-sale value."



http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,2155971,00.html

 

[gabriel]

i notice that once we get past his simplistic theorizing and start to examine details he, like most cons here, quickly goes on to other threads!!

 

[imreallyperplexed]

It is also a little silly not to take demographic patterns such as the percent of people who live in urban areas to the percent of people that live in rural areas. For example the percent of the population that lives in cities in Germany is 74% while the percent of the population that lives in cities in the U.S. is 82%.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS

Sarge lives in a rural area of Tennessee. Housing and land prices are very different in rural areas than urban areas. You would find similar issues vis a vis healthcare.

In other words, blanket statements about large nations are a little silly and a little misleading.

There are many different aspects of their society that result in lower home ownership. One...well...they lost a lot of stuff in WWII...so apartment blocks were built to house the people. Thus, apartments became the norm in the city. Berlin is a renter's city...there just aren't many single family houses. Now...some of these apartments are amazing...as in any great city. And the percenatge of home ownership outside the cities is close the US figures...

And...like you mentioned...a different attitude regarding homes as investments versus...well...homes.


"The acute housing shortage lasted well into the 1970s, so apartment blocks and multi-family dwellings went up very quickly," said Just, who added that renting has been historically far more attractive than buying. "Though high demand forced prices up, rents remained very stable and affordable. That the landlord was often the city or some public entity implicitly meant that rents were subsidized, and below market value."


Unlike other Europeans, most Germans live in apartments rather than single family houses, where home ownership rates are much higher....

...Real estate experts also predict that home ownership rates will rise simply because of a shift in demographics, as the war generation, who were mostly renters, dies out. Among middle-aged baby boomers, almost 60 percent are home owners and favor a suburban rowhouse with a garden and white picket fence...


..."In the US, a house is a commodity," he said. "You buy your first apartment as a single, then sell and buy a bigger one when you are a couple, then upgrade to a house when you have kids, then move to a condo when the kids have left home. For Germans, a house is for life, so they invest their soul and a lot of capital into this one house. Germans haven't learned that houses have re-sale value."



http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,2155971,00.html

 

[Craig]

It is also a little silly not to take demographic patterns such as the percent of people who live in urban areas to the percent of people that live in rural areas. For example the percent of the population that lives in cities in Germany is 74% while the percent of the population that lives in cities in the U.S. is 82%.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS

Sarge lives in a rural area of Tennessee. Housing and land prices are very different in rural areas than urban areas. You would find similar issues vis a vis healthcare.

In other words, blanket statements about large nations are a little silly and a little misleading.

Sarge insisted the phrase "provide for the ...general welfare" did not appear in the Constitution...and he read my quote below regarding the body as "misuse". He follows his own drummer...

Here's a little piece of rural Germany. Outside Leipzig...looks like 3.5 acres+/- with a house and some out buildings. Could use some work...and is selling for $39,687.00 USD...Less than a...Chevy Volt.

http://www.realigro.com/real_estate/germany/sachsen/agricultural-firm/for-sale/17672.html

 

[imreallyperplexed]

I am not surprised. Leipzig was in the old East Germany and East Germany is still relatively "underdeveloped."

Sarge insisted the phrase "provide for the ...general welfare" did not appear in the Constitution...and he read my quote below regarding the body as "misuse". He follows his own drummer...

Here's a little piece of rural Germany. Outside Leipzig...looks like 3.5 acres+/- with a house and some out buildings. Could use some work...and is selling for $39,687.00 USD...Less than a...Chevy Volt.

http://www.realigro.com/real_estate/germany/sachsen/agricultural-firm/for-sale/17672.html

 

[Craig]

I am not surprised. Leipzig was in the old East Germany and East Germany is still relatively "underdeveloped."

Hmmm...somewhat like...Tennessee? Of course...Tennessee has quite a bit of development...and it was made possible by the TVA, a massive government public works program.

 

[Sgt Staples]

Where do you get the "limited home ownership" crap from? Never heard of "the right to buy"?

There is only a right to buy if a buyer can afford to buy. In Europe, including Germany, prices are higher and net incomes are lower. Why? Because Europeans have become dependent on government run health care, government run pensions, government unemployment payments etc that requires a massive amount of taxation.

And unlike the United States, EVERYONE pays those taxes, they don't just rely on the top 1%, or 10% or top 50 to foot the bill. Therefore people have LESS net income and higher prices. This is what happens in Socialist Welfare States. In other words Europeans pay more for the privilege of have government control over their lives, and are not free to make their own decisions as most things are controlled by big huge governments.

Germany is proposing a new tax to pay for their retirees; and the tax they are proposing will hit everyone except those retirees. That's why Socialist governments always eventually go bankrupt. And it's happening across Europe, they don't create wealth, they consume it and distribute it.

 

[Sgt Staples]

Hmmm...somewhat like...Tennessee? Of course...Tennessee has quite a bit of development...and it was made possible by the TVA, a massive government public works program.

The TVA is a private entity, controlled by government, totally paid for by the people, like me, who consume the electricity they produce.

 

[Sgt Staples]

Germans get 35 days of paid vacation per year....and they take it.

maybe that's why VW built a brand new pant in Chattanooga, and BMW is making cars in South Carolina. There's a couple of European firearms manufactures who have also moved some of their production to the United States.

 

[Craig]

The TVA is a private entity, controlled by government, totally paid for by the people, like me, who consume the electricity they produce.

Yes. A Federally owned, private/public partnership made possible by the United States government and the policies under FDR. It displaced 15,000 families. You have electricity because of it.