New Posts
  • Hi there guest! Welcome to PoliticalJack.com. Register for free to join our community?

Where is the disagreement on climate science?

No - I am not letting you get away with this, not this time - a real friend, any of my friends would have laughed at my 'what's a few pots and pans?' - in fact any one who knows me in real life would have smiled - because they know I hate washing up and they know my humour, that often my posts hold my humour - but you instead called me a liar and a fantasist. Those are serious accusations to throw at a 'friend' - Maybe I was out of England for so long I've forgotten - Are they normal things to call a friend in England?

You then go on to say - out of nowhere - that my real fantasy is that I no longer work, at least that is what you seem to be saying. Perhaps it is your fantasy that I still have lots of clients - but it is not the reality of my life. I stopped working when Sunny needed constant care - and never really went back to work seriously again - after Sunny died I just took to my bed - I hardly left it for a year I was so distraught at the loss of my darlings - and so exhausted from so many troubled years - then I sat and thought 'what shall I do with the rest of my life, I can't be like this, just existing, it is unbearable' so I took to law - meanwhile it was a bit of an amature hour swan song for a bit - but working? I started at 9.30 am in Eng and finished when the phone stopped ringing ------------- working is not amature hour. In Belg the norm was that we opened at 1.30pm and closed at 3,00 am if no one was 'in' but often worked until 6.00 am -7.00 am seven days a week ------------- many boring hours waiting waiting waiting - but when we made money it was work - not for our pleasure but for theirs and the bigger their wallet the harder we worked for the next bottle of Champas or not 'cos they were sweet and easy and generous - or some tighfisted mean little old man who cried about his dead wife whilst pinching you in sensitive places took hours and hours to buy you even a second drink or the burn victims, cripples, a poor father who had to give his children back at the end of the week end and just wanted to sit in silence - and so on - you have no fu'cking idea Poseidon, stop pretending you do - and nor do I expect that anyone who didn't live in those old fashioned brothels could. Just as no one but a soldier knows their life.

So anyway, it seems that because I mentioned on here that I gave up work, which I have, but do not blast across all political discussions every time an occasional old faithful passes through my hands - 'I had a client, so sorry I lied - I haven't really given up working!' Should I give every detail of every encounter too, do you suppose? Would that satisfy? Twice this year I have seen the same fella and twice this year we chatted for a few hours - ok? happy? Or would you rather I made up a lovely lush fantasy for you?

Am I still on line? Yes ................ it would take a lot of effort to shut me down in every nook and cranny of the internet - my phone is off and e mails I answer still - Some of my clients and I still talk - so what? And I might take one when I have time - Is it anyones business to tell me that because I do not shout every fu'cking detail of every single second of my life on line I am a liar?

And this is written in public because you made it so --------- to so cheapen other people's lives on line and for what?
Well, I really am not interested in your work . Since my cancer treatment I have no sex drive - so a lush fantasy would , if anything be a bore.
I cant even be bothered to take Viagra to generate the ability .
You have lived a very hard life , and, I cant pretend to understand what it was like.
What you have told me of it has, on occasion made me cry for you .
I wish you had talked to me before you went to Belgium - I feel that I let you down somehow.

I am sure that having a sink full off pots is something we all have from time to time !!
( well , unless you stick 'em in the oven of course) .
I was not actually referring to your clients - and a fantasy about dishwashers isn't that major.

You said that as Titania - you pull no punches and are not like you are in real life.
I think you may have said that as Poseidon I should do the same.

There is , and was no malice intended .
 

Arkady

President
What about the energy? I mean, I know water is typically pumped by electrical means, that there is a balance to be struck among various environmental goals, and that the source of the energy matters ... but how much energy is conserved by washing by hand?
There have been a couple studies that tried to consider all the environmental effects and concluded machine washing was better. The energy involved in treating wastewater also has to be considered, and the energy to warm the water if you don't try to wash with cold.
 
There have been a couple studies that tried to consider all the environmental effects and concluded machine washing was better. The energy involved in treating wastewater also has to be considered, and the energy to warm the water if you don't try to wash with cold.
I think that the findings that you refer to are relevant to standard machines and that they may not apply to small ones.
 
Well, I really am not interested in your work . Since my cancer treatment I have no sex drive - so a lush fantasy would , if anything be a bore.
I cant even be bothered to take Viagra to generate the ability .
You have lived a very hard life , and, I cant pretend to understand what it was like.
What you have told me of it has, on occasion made me cry for you .
I wish you had talked to me before you went to Belgium - I feel that I let you down somehow.

I am sure that having a sink full off pots is something we all have from time to time !!
( well , unless you stick 'em in the oven of course) .
I was not actually referring to your clients - and a fantasy about dishwashers isn't that major.

You said that as Titania - you pull no punches and are not like you are in real life.
I think you may have said that as Poseidon I should do the same.

There is , and was no malice intended .
Did I bring my Prof onto the board to call myself a liar?
Over sentimentality does not impress me nor is your sex drive any concern of mine in the context of or as an excuse for your calling me a liar and a fantasist.

'What's a few pots and pans?' you simply did not get, perhaps you should stop trying -

I am absolutely certain I said no such thing about Poseidon, again I suspect you of misunderstanding my words - we all form our own personas on here over time -

Malice? I dunno what is in your mind but it came over as disrespect -
 
Did I bring my Prof onto the board to call myself a liar?
Over sentimentality does not impress me nor is your sex drive any concern of mine in the context of or as an excuse for your calling me a liar and a fantasist.

'What's a few pots and pans?' you simply did not get, perhaps you should stop trying -

I am absolutely certain I said no such thing about Poseidon, again I suspect you of misunderstanding my words - we all form our own personas on here over time -

Malice? I dunno what is in your mind but it came over as disrespect -
You post things that are not true - and that you know to be untrue.
If you choose to regard my saying so as calling you a liar that is up to you.
I could spell out the detail but I am not sure if you choose to conceal certain facts out of a desire for a little privacy. That is why I have not "risen to the bait" and spelt it out.

You said it ( about Titania etc.) back in the real world before or just after I joined PJ.

I hope your aviary stood up to the storm the other night - I was thinking of your birds with all that weather .

We have had rats in the street coming out of the drains ...
 
You post things that are not true - and that you know to be untrue.
If you choose to regard my saying so as calling you a liar that is up to you.
I could spell out the detail but I am not sure if you choose to conceal certain facts out of a desire for a little privacy. That is why I have not "risen to the bait" and spelt it out.

You said it ( about Titania etc.) back in the real world before or just after I joined PJ.

I hope your aviary stood up to the storm the other night - I was thinking of your birds with all that weather .

We have had rats in the street coming out of the drains ...
You used the word liar and what things? What things do I post which are untrue and I know to be untrue? What bloody things?

'Risen to the bait' -'risen to the bait' - you are calling me a liar and when asked for proof of that you say I am baiting you?

What? I said something about Titania when drunk and disorderly over a year ago? In that sits your lie? The burblings of a drunken evening of over a year ago? Huh?

Rule number 1) Never tell me what I said when I was drunk - and you are holding it against me? How perfectly dishonorable of you - as if, in my drinking days, I probably did not say what you are holding against me on Slate or PJ anyway! Do we hold such things against each other on here? No ................

We come here as anon - over the years some of us know more about each other and have formed bonds and or become enemies, each one of us has stomped off saying '[Unwelcome language removed] 'em all I am never coming back' at some point - that familiarity which has formed between us as anon does not mean that you can come clomping in here as a 'friend' and blurt out anything you fancy about the person you perceive me to be in life outside the anon -------------- actually it is outrageous.

It is darn right outrageous - even more so that you misinterpret almost everything I have ever said to you -


I have wasted enough time on this, this - I don't even know what to call it -
 

Arkady

President
I think that the findings that you refer to are relevant to standard machines and that they may not apply to small ones.
Perhaps. Here's a fuller discussion:

https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

Looks like although it's conceivable to be greener while hand-washing, it's difficult. I'm not a fan of large inconveniences to get only possible environmental benefits (with the possibility of actually being counter-productive), so I'd go with an Energystar dishwasher. Load it fully before running and enjoy the labor savings.
 
You used the word liar and what things? What things do I post which are untrue and I know to be untrue? What bloody things?

'Risen to the bait' -'risen to the bait' - you are calling me a liar and when asked for proof of that you say I am baiting you?

What? I said something about Titania when drunk and disorderly over a year ago? In that sits your lie? The burblings of a drunken evening of over a year ago? Huh?

Rule number 1) Never tell me what I said when I was drunk - and you are holding it against me? How perfectly dishonorable of you - as if, in my drinking days, I probably did not say what you are holding against me on Slate or PJ anyway! Do we hold such things against each other on here? No ................

We come here as anon - over the years some of us know more about each other and have formed bonds and or become enemies, each one of us has stomped off saying '[Unwelcome language removed] 'em all I am never coming back' at some point - that familiarity which has formed between us as anon does not mean that you can come clomping in here as a 'friend' and blurt out anything you fancy about the person you perceive me to be in life outside the anon -------------- actually it is outrageous.

It is darn right outrageous - even more so that you misinterpret almost everything I have ever said to you -


I have wasted enough time on this, this - I don't even know what to call it -
You are talking about something that never happened.
There was no drunken conversation that I am referring to , just a sober ( both sides ) telephone conversation.
When you say things about the private person to prove a point the anon wishes to make and then say a different thing later to prove an other point in PJ you cannot say that because we know each other , that I am being unfair.
You contradict yourself on PJ.
 
Last edited:
You are talking about something that never happened.
There was no drunken conversation that I am referring to , just a sober ( both sides ) telephone conversation.
When you say things about the private person to prove a point the anon wishes to make and then say a different thing later to prove an other point in PJ you cannot say that because we know each other , that I am being unfair.
You contradict yourself on PJ.

So ------------ let us get this straight - I told you something on the phone at some point. On PJ I said something which contradicted what I had said on the phone, at some point. Something obviously so troubling and enormous that you felt it your duty to call me a fantasist and a liar - on a public forum.

About a dishwasher ............. which in private I tell stories of/make jokes about.

About giving up work ................... because I do not tell all and sundry when an old faithful comes by - being a very private person and living very discretely, why would I do that? Why would I do that on a political board?

About Queen Titania .................. ??????


I now rather regret ever having spoken to you about anything at all because you do not understand where the line is and because you truly don't get me at all.
 
Last edited:

Drumcollie

* See DC's list of Kook posters*
We can do some things about it ... reduce GHG emissions and plan for foreseeable climate change.
You had eight years of Obama and we are all going to die...no thanks. Best you leave this up to God. He knows way better than you.
 
So ------------ let us get this straight - I told you something on the phone at some point. On PJ I said something which contradicted what I had said on the phone, at some point. Something obviously so troubling and enormous that you felt it your duty to call me a fantasist and a liar - on a public forum.

About a dishwasher ............. which in private I tell stories of/make jokes about.

About giving up work ................... because I do not tell all and sundry when an old faithful comes by - being a very private person and living very discretely, why would I do that? Why would I do that on a political board?

About Queen Titania .................. ??????


I now rather regret ever having spoken to you about anything at all because you do not understand where the line is and because you truly don't get me at all.
I think we are not communicating at all.
We all make jokes about dishwashers - etc.
Yours is only slightly wonkier than mine .
your work was not too what I was referring directly.
You assumed it was - I said that it was not - but ..............
Don't get the significance of Queen Titania. ???
 

EatTheRich

President
You had eight years of Obama and we are all going to die...no thanks. Best you leave this up to God. He knows way better than you.
No one says we are all gonna die. It is irresponsible to assume that a deus ex machina will arrive to save us from the foreseeable consequences of the foolish course you advocate.
 
I think we are not communicating at all.
We all make jokes about dishwashers - etc.
Yours is only slightly wonkier than mine .
your work was not too what I was referring directly.
You assumed it was - I said that it was not - but ..............
Don't get the significance of Queen Titania. ???
You have accused me of lying but refuse to tell the alleged lie - who is not communicating?

No, 'we' don't all joke about a non existing dish-bloody-washer - if you had just said 'your dishwasher broke' that would be one thing, a one thing nothing - but no you had to go on to accuse me of living a fantasy life - and again refuse to explain what this bleedin fantasy life is that I lead........... As if anyone would fantasize about having my life - it was a double insult really - belittling -

Oh so you don't have a dish-bloody-washer either don't you? Don't be ridiculous - you have one - I do not - and according to you that not having one is some sort of fantasy life ---------which is just beyond me - how can the truth be fantasy and surely the fantasy would be that I had one when I don't? There was a dishwasher - it broke - I did not replace it - I wrote to Ark I had no dishwasher in a post talking about 'green living' and you shouted 'you live in a fantasy' - ?

Enough!

You came in here that morning shouting bollocks and other such at everything I had posted the day before, which is fine until you came to a post I wrote to Ark and just threw unthinking personal insults at it - which were untrue and written with a presumed familiarity which you have not earned nor do you deserve. If it were the first time - but it is not and it is tiresome which is why I now nip it in the old bud. You could easily have asked me 'why did you say' whatever you were unhappy about but no - there in public you try humiliating via presumed familiarity over an absolute nonsense - for God's sake! A long dead dishwasher! I have had many an insult hurled my way in this arena but over the washing up! - too too ridiculous ---------------- how to bring a 'Nazi' down eh? Insult their washing up .......... I will find it funny one day but now it is just too too tiresome - do I dare even post here anymore without fear of 'Liar!' over some minutiae or other --

So telling me I have lied repeatedly about leaving my past life is not about my work? OK ----------- when did you say it was not? - 1st it was and now it was not - OK ............. I must have some other 'fantasy' life I don't know about that I lied about leaving behind --------------- you utterly ridiculous man - I am nearly 70 years old and you are going on about, I presume, one old faithful who happened to be arriving when you phoned me once ---- That I have shared aspects of my life on here goes back to Slate and how I entered the Fray - but every detail I have never shared, how do you dare to presume it to be you business to do so? Whatever, it is obviously some sort of presumed confidence that you are speaking of - or you wouldn't be so shy of breaking it - whatever it was. It don't matter - it is broken by its mention.

You brought Queen T into it not me ------------- I think you forget what you write from one min to the next and think nothing of hurling baseless insults around - with no qualms about that line which one does not cross - You have gone far far over that line, which you do not seem to see - and worse than that you get it all wrong, muddled, confused but you presume superiority - and in life I would not put up with it either - not as Queen Titania and neither as me - she is just an aspect of me.
 
Last edited:

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
Thank you for a great example of the kind of response I was hoping the right could do better than (a gratuitous swipe at Gore and a failure to identify any specific issue with the science).

As for your claim that those scientists who don't agree being pushed out of a job, that's untrue. In academia, tenured professors have great ability to follow wherever the information leads them without fearing for their jobs. And a few tenured professors have spent many years in the academy pushing positions at odds with the majority -- in both directions.
You have no consensus. The majority of folks who parrot the bullshit, that mankind has created Global Warming, don't really know if it's true or not. They just believe what they are told and they are merely ignorant. The bulk of the believers are shameless dweebs like you who are so invested in the hoax that they will never admit that it's phony.
The real inconvenient truth is that we no longer have an administration that will force the lies and bullshit on the American people. The last time I checked, New York City is still not under water.
 

Arkady

President
You have no consensus. The majority of folks who parrot the bullshit, that mankind has created Global Warming, don't really know if it's true or not. They just believe what they are told and they are merely ignorant. The bulk of the believers are shameless dweebs like you who are so invested in the hoax that they will never admit that it's phony.
The real inconvenient truth is that we no longer have an administration that will force the lies and bullshit on the American people. The last time I checked, New York City is still not under water.
The more knowledgeable and educated people are, the more likely they are to be aligned with the IPCC. Among the leading climatologists, about 97% of them agree with the basic tenets of the IPCC position. Among people with relevant advanced education, it's over 70%. The only groups where you won't find a strong majority backing the IPCC view are people who simply lack a decent science education.

In my own case, I came to the view not by way of the fundamental science, since I don't have advanced education in the topic. Although I started as a physics major at a very good university, my doctorate isn't in a science and I haven't spent years studying this on a full-time basis, so it would seem presumptuous to assume I knew better than those who had. So, I come to the view by way of the meta analysis. Basically, I look at what the views are of those who have "done their homework," and how those views have evolved. What I see is that the more accomplished people are in the field, the more likely they are to support something like the IPCC position. I also see that the consensus has grown broader and more assured over time, as more information is known. And I see that the projections by consensus scientists have been remarkably close to the mark, in terms of the pace of warming and sea level rise. Based on those factors, I find it more likely than not that the consensus is mostly correct, and I make that my working assumption.

As for your comment about New York City, do you think the consensus position was that it should be underwater at this point? Sea level increases have been happening pretty much in line with the consensus projections.
 
The more knowledgeable and educated people are, the more likely they are to be aligned with the IPCC. Among the leading climatologists, about 97% of them agree with the basic tenets of the IPCC position. Among people with relevant advanced education, it's over 70%. The only groups where you won't find a strong majority backing the IPCC view are people who simply lack a decent science education.

In my own case, I came to the view not by way of the fundamental science, since I don't have advanced education in the topic. Although I started as a physics major at a very good university, my doctorate isn't in a science and I haven't spent years studying this on a full-time basis, so it would seem presumptuous to assume I knew better than those who had. So, I come to the view by way of the meta analysis. Basically, I look at what the views are of those who have "done their homework," and how those views have evolved. What I see is that the more accomplished people are in the field, the more likely they are to support something like the IPCC position. I also see that the consensus has grown broader and more assured over time, as more information is known. And I see that the projections by consensus scientists have been remarkably close to the mark, in terms of the pace of warming and sea level rise. Based on those factors, I find it more likely than not that the consensus is mostly correct, and I make that my working assumption.

As for your comment about New York City, do you think the consensus position was that it should be underwater at this point? Sea level increases have been happening pretty much in line with the consensus projections.
The IPPC take one of a study, a report or a mere article ( whether written by a scientist or a journalist) and give that as their evidence on a subject - they then name everyone who put in any addition to the subject even if 1000 out of 1001 did not agree with their chosen 'evidence'. It has taken people years to get their names off the IPPC lists -
 
Last edited:

Arkady

President
The IPPC take one of a study, a report or a mere article ( whether written by a scientist or a journalist) and give that as their evidence on a subject - they then name everyone who put in any addition to the subject even if 1000 out of 1001 did not agree with their chosen 'evidence'. It has taken people years to get their names off the IPPC lists -
The IPCC does the ethical thing and lists their sources. As for how they come up with the actual reports, that requires agreement by each member country which, as you might imagine, tends to make the reports rather conservative:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/dec/04/experts-ipcc-underestimated-sea-level-rise
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-science-predictions-prove-too-conservative/
https://www.skepticalscience.com/ipcc-scientific-consensus.htm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/30/climate-scientists-arent-too-alarmist-theyre-too-conservative/?utm_term=.fa3be236dc1b

Still, I accept it as a good, middle-of-the-road estimate, and so far, they've been doing remarkably well, As I pointed out a few weeks ago, if you go all the way back to the first full IPCC report, from 1992, they nailed the current rate of warming almost perfectly.
 
You have accused me of lying but refuse to tell the alleged lie - who is not communicating?

No, 'we' don't all joke about a non existing dish-bloody-washer - if you had just said 'your dishwasher broke' that would be one thing, a one thing nothing - but no you had to go on to accuse me of living a fantasy life - and again refuse to explain what this bleedin fantasy life is that I lead........... As if anyone would fantasize about having my life - it was a double insult really - belittling -

Oh so you don't have a dish-bloody-washer either don't you? Don't be ridiculous - you have one - I do not - and according to you that not having one is some sort of fantasy life ---------which is just beyond me - how can the truth be fantasy and surely the fantasy would be that I had one when I don't? There was a dishwasher - it broke - I did not replace it - I wrote to Ark I had no dishwasher in a post talking about 'green living' and you shouted 'you live in a fantasy' - ?

Enough!

You came in here that morning shouting bollocks and other such at everything I had posted the day before, which is fine until you came to a post I wrote to Ark and just threw unthinking personal insults at it - which were untrue and written with a presumed familiarity which you have not earned nor do you deserve. If it were the first time - but it is not and it is tiresome which is why I now nip it in the old bud. You could easily have asked me 'why did you say' whatever you were unhappy about but no - there in public you try humiliating via presumed familiarity over an absolute nonsense - for God's sake! A long dead dishwasher! I have had many an insult hurled my way in this arena but over the washing up! - too too ridiculous ---------------- how to bring a 'Nazi' down eh? Insult their washing up .......... I will find it funny one day but now it is just too too tiresome - do I dare even post here anymore without fear of 'Liar!' over some minutiae or other --

So telling me I have lied repeatedly about leaving my past life is not about my work? OK ----------- when did you say it was not? - 1st it was and now it was not - OK ............. I must have some other 'fantasy' life I don't know about that I lied about leaving behind --------------- you utterly ridiculous man - I am nearly 70 years old and you are going on about, I presume, one old faithful who happened to be arriving when you phoned me once ---- That I have shared aspects of my life on here goes back to Slate and how I entered the Fray - but every detail I have never shared, how do you dare to presume it to be you business to do so? Whatever, it is obviously some sort of presumed confidence that you are speaking of - or you wouldn't be so shy of breaking it - whatever it was. It don't matter - it is broken by its mention.

You brought Queen T into it not me ------------- I think you forget what you write from one min to the next and think nothing of hurling baseless insults around - with no qualms about that line which one does not cross - You have gone far far over that line, which you do not seem to see - and worse than that you get it all wrong, muddled, confused but you presume superiority - and in life I would not put up with it either - not as Queen Titania and neither as me - she is just an aspect of me.
I don't recall insulting your washing up .....I am totally uninterested in your work - but was surprised when you told me about your career choices.
I don't quite see a link between Nazi beliefs and Dishwasher breakdowns .
You seem to be upset about something - I never called you a Liar - but there is a disconnect between some of the things that you say.
 
The IPCC does the ethical thing and lists their sources. As for how they come up with the actual reports, that requires agreement by each member country which, as you might imagine, tends to make the reports rather conservative:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/dec/04/experts-ipcc-underestimated-sea-level-rise
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-science-predictions-prove-too-conservative/
https://www.skepticalscience.com/ipcc-scientific-consensus.htm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/30/climate-scientists-arent-too-alarmist-theyre-too-conservative/?utm_term=.fa3be236dc1b

Still, I accept it as a good, middle-of-the-road estimate, and so far, they've been doing remarkably well, As I pointed out a few weeks ago, if you go all the way back to the first full IPCC report, from 1992, they nailed the current rate of warming almost perfectly.
It lists everyone who gave their understandings/findings in on any specific subject - it does not say what all of their actual findings were so even if a scientist's findings are contra to the IPPC 'evidence' their names are still on the list of sources, it is a cheat -------------- scientist have had to go through the courts to get their names of the lists - but they suffer for it so most just let it stand.
 
Top