Why Citizenship is the Lowest Class of all

[EatTheRich]

Defined right's, huh? Who had the authority to determine what those defined rights should be? If I was not born with any special authority to command you or vote you out of your "undefined" natural law rights and you were not born with any special authority to command me or vote me out of my rights, nor was any other human being on this planet, then I ask you, how do two opr more combine their NON-EXISTENT authority to vote another out of their rights, beyond the law of trespass? Please respond to my question?

It's decided historically in the course of class struggle. Again, class society is inherently unjust; but it is not the birth of liberal government that made it unjust ... rather, liberalism was an effort to mitigate that injustice.

 

[Queen Titania]

It's decided historically in the course of class struggle. Again, class society is inherently unjust; but it is not the birth of liberal government that made it unjust ... rather, liberalism was an effort to mitigate that injustice.

You are talking about two different things - He is questioning the Jurisdiction of Gov over all who are born free - we are all born free - so how does Gov gain any say in connection with that, our freedom?

 

[Iconoclasm]

I understand that - it is the same here and in most countries if not all countries, dunno. Some have a bigger fight on their hands than others.

Absolutely - but there are pros to Gov, it is not all bad. We need to grasp, understand when, where and how our 'Trust Fund' was set up to be able to grasp every aspect from beginning to end, but when we do realize that they have no jurisdiction over certain aspects of our life and or have overstepped the mark or indeed have embezzled from our fund, to simply say 'we the people do not want any more Government', would be rather rash, don't you think? For there would be a ridiculous chaos.

OK as an individual one has that choice - one may choose to be without a pension a country and ect ect ect -

But as a peoples it is surly a matter of bringing Gov back into balance -

One thing a lot of people do not seem to take into account is that under contract law the Constitution is a contract with the People (not to be confused with citizens) and it has been severely trampled upon by the so called leaders which in most cases abrogates the contract. So if the contract is indeed broken, then it should be moot!

 

[Queen Titania]

Maybe so as we do with the Crown here but -------------- only when you are a citizen surely? The Constitution also pertains to Gov - so to your 'Gov name' not the freely born you- the freely born you is sovereign.

Now you are confusing issues too ;-)

 

[EatTheRich]

You are talking about two different things - He is questioning the Jurisdiction of Gov over all who are born free - we are all born free - so how does Gov gain any say in connection with that, our freedom?

The state is a tool of violence exercised in the name of the ruling class against any enemies it has. The ideological rationale is irrelevant, the fact is that this violence is ongoing. As Rousseau put it, "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." But one does not simply renounce the violence of the state by exposing its origin ... the only way to do away with the state is to do away with private property, which is what gives it its power by dividing humanity into classes.

 

[Queen Titania]

The state is a tool of violence exercised in the name of the ruling class against any enemies it has. The ideological rationale is irrelevant, the fact is that this violence is ongoing. As Rousseau put it, "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." But one does not simply renounce the violence of the state by exposing its origin ... the only way to do away with the state is to do away with private property, which is what gives it its power by dividing humanity into classes.

EatTheRich - you are not helping -

 

[Iconoclasm]

Nay -------------- you need to do some more research. Of course you can renounce your citizenship on exactly the grounds you say - they sent your guardians your 'names' papers of citizen ship - when you are of age, of course you can renounce that which your gardians' took on your behalf ------------- as for your driving licence, it is prevalent to Government so if and when you renounce all the 'privledges' of your 'citizen name' by renouncing 'its' citizenship you loose all things pertaining to citizenship - licences and medicare and pensions and ect -

So when asked you only have to say that it no longer applies after I have renounced my citizenship ------ it only applies when you are a citizen, not when you are not. Whilst you are a citizen the licence is valid - after you renounce citizenship it is no longer valid but -------- can you drive still with no citizenship and thus no valid licence? Another question and I think you can but you will have to dig for the answer -

You do need to do some more research, as do I, as the blogger I posted just now says - it is at least a years worth of solid research. Not peoples words but law vs legality and ect -

s on the birth certificate.
I'm talking about Political Jurisdiction. In the US Jurisdiction hinges on citizenship, which hinges on the birth certificate. Interestingly, our births are based on hearsay as no one on the planet remembers by their own memory who their mother is. In other words, we all believe the woman that says she gave birth to us is our mother, but none of us actually remembers the birth event which, in effect makes it hearsay, but hearsay is not admissible in court in most cases. If two boys traded birth certificates and went to get their licenses, they could, in effect, change identities and no one would be the wiser. They would have traded identities and therefore true legal names. This alone could create reasonable doubt in a jurors mind which could ultimately throw a case. About driving without a license, it is being done by a friend of mine. He keeps going to court and basically winning because he challenges the jurisdiction with the aforementioned tactic. The courts simply sweep it under the rug, though it is inconvenient, I think my friend gets a kick out of it.

 

[Iconoclasm]

The state is a tool of violence exercised in the name of the ruling class against any enemies it has. The ideological rationale is irrelevant, the fact is that this violence is ongoing. As Rousseau put it, "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." But one does not simply renounce the violence of the state by exposing its origin ... the only way to do away with the state is to do away with private property, which is what gives it its power by dividing humanity into classes.

They still have protocols and procedures they must follow. If you have a tight jurisdictional argument, they cannot proceed past the administrative til they prove they own you.

 

[EatTheRich]

They still have protocols and procedures they must follow. If you have a tight jurisdictional argument, they cannot proceed past the administrative til they prove they own you.

Yeah, good luck with that. Here are a couple more tips for you: if you write "paid in full" in the memo part of your check, you can get out of any debt; if you write "sovereign citizen" on a piece of cardboard, you don't have to buy license plates for your car; and if you plead the fifth, you don't have to file a tax return.

#sarcasm

 

[Queen Titania]

They still have protocols and procedures they must follow. If you have a tight jurisdictional argument, they cannot proceed past the administrative til they prove they own you.

Own your name - not you - you are the free born on the Live Birth Cert - only your name is on The Birth Cert - not the live you but your name.

 

[Queen Titania]

s on the birth certificate.
I'm talking about Political Jurisdiction. In the US Jurisdiction hinges on citizenship, which hinges on the birth certificate. Interestingly, our births are based on hearsay as no one on the planet remembers by their own memory who their mother is. In other words, we all believe the woman that says she gave birth to us is our mother, but none of us actually remembers the birth event which, in effect makes it hearsay, but hearsay is not admissible in court in most cases. If two boys traded birth certificates and went to get their licenses, they could, in effect, change identities and no one would be the wiser. They would have traded identities and therefore true legal names. This alone could create reasonable doubt in a jurors mind which could ultimately throw a case. About driving without a license, it is being done by a friend of mine. He keeps going to court and basically winning because he challenges the jurisdiction with the aforementioned tactic. The courts simply sweep it under the rug, though it is inconvenient, I think my friend gets a kick out of it.

Darling, that is a competely different kettle of fish and just a muddying of the water, to borrow your expression. for eg - My daughter was born in Queen Charlottes Hospital in London - certianly babies do get muddled up but it is unusual because there are safety valves - In hospital the babe is labelled immediatly after birth with a tag round its ankle - the Registra came hours later or the next day to the parent - he has the paperwork from the hospital and asks the parents chosen name for babe and the parent signs that cert of live birth with the live born babies name on it and parents/guardians name only, it is a cert of live birth ------------ only after - then does the division happen, split jurisdiction, and only of the name on the cert not the life. Ditto if babe is born at home was so in my case - So any messing with the paperwork of that first happening is another question all together - the live birth cert is sent to Gov - the name on that cert they then register on a Birth cert ( not live birth so not a person but the persons name ) signed later by the guardian and the Registra - Actually I gave my daughter different names on both - I was very young the Registra was very gruff and frightened me into giving the first name which came to mind - I paniced and can't even remember what they were now - later I changed them so all 6 names are on the birth cert but only the first 3 are on the live birth cert - more complicated here than in the US and Canada because we are never given a copy of the Live Cert, only the Birth Cert ------------ I am looking into that one as are others We are all unpaid Private Detectives now a days eh?

You are coming from a pov that all this Registration business is a bad thing, it isn't - but the lines are blurred ----------------and Gov everywhere has over stepped the mark - If we wish to reside in our respective countries we needs clear the blurring and then see what we have - If we wish to bugger off and ditch our Citizenship, we had best be were we want to stay and make sure we are welcome there, as a Stateless person, before we do.

 

[Iconoclasm]

EatTheRich - you are not helping -

I have studied criminal and Constitutional law for 15 years and find it to be a joke, and a very bad one without a doubt. I have researched for years only to realize that the ones that should be in prisons are instead running the country and voting themselves largesse yet very few of them end up in prison. Good people create laws to protect themselves from criminals (I believe under the heading of trespassers), unfortunately, the smartest criminals adapt and run for public office! This is the end result. Interestingly, most people are comfortable being led, rather than leading, even though it may mean being lead to slaughter. . The reason for that is that thinking is hard work. In fact it is the hardest work of all! Hitler once stated "how fortunate for those of us in power that people do not think!" Most are clueless that the Rothschild cartel took full control (again) of our monetary system with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913. I am so frustrated in my endeavors of awakening people to their folly with repeated insanity of voting for the same Democrats and Republicans who put us all under the thumbs of the Banksters to a point that we are non stop bailing them out with tax dollars. This country can be run using the Federal Reserve and a little thing called the 28th Amendment which I will post soon. It would make this country truly free as well. That is an event which only occurred one with the ousting of King George and only lasted until the so called Founding Fathers created this mess!

 

[Iconoclasm]

I understand that - it is the same here and in most countries if not all countries, dunno. Some have a bigger fight on their hands than others.

Absolutely - but there are pros to Gov, it is not all bad. We need to grasp, understand when, where and how our 'Trust Fund' was set up to be able to grasp every aspect from beginning to end, but when we do realize that they have no jurisdiction over certain aspects of our life and or have overstepped the mark or indeed have embezzled from our fund, to simply say 'we the people do not want any more Government', would be rather rash, don't you think? For there would be a ridiculous chaos.

OK as an individual one has that choice - one may choose to be without a pension a country and ect ect ect -

But as a peoples it is surly a matter of bringing Gov back into balance -

I agree we need a subservient government that stays within the confines of the laws of trespass and cannot vote itself wealth. I will post the solution to this mess soon, but it probably will never occur as long as the sheep stay asleep and continue to trust the Democrats and Republicans as well as their Bankster owners.

 

[Iconoclasm]

If you conspiracy theorists could ever get all yourselves on the same page, we'd REALLY have something to cry about!

Still couldn't come up with something intellectual to say?

 

[Iconoclasm]

Yeah, good luck with that. Here are a couple more tips for you: if you write "paid in full" in the memo part of your check, you can get out of any debt; if you write "sovereign citizen" on a piece of cardboard, you don't have to buy license plates for your car; and if you plead the fifth, you don't have to file a tax return.

#sarcasm

Hilarious! I'm hoping you are aware that there is no such thing as a "sovereign citizen." Secondly, you have to play within the guidelines if you are to stand a chance it one of their corrupt courtrooms. There are always alternatives. and about that tax return. Taxation is simply a euphemism for armed robbery. The point I have been trying to make is that people have the right to form groups and for that matter governments where they can make a rule that everyone has to vote to get things done within the confines of that group or government. But NO ONE or group has the right to force everyone to opt in! No one has that authority! I was not given another option! I do not like seeing my money go to support Banksters and their Rothschild created wars! This country can be run without taxation and without those criminal Banksters from Europe running things.

 

[Queen Titania]

Hilarious! I'm hoping you are aware that there is no such thing as a "sovereign citizen." Secondly, you have to play within the guidelines if you are to stand a chance it one of their corrupt courtrooms. There are always alternatives. and about that tax return. Taxation is simply a euphemism for armed robbery. The point I have been trying to make is that people have the right to form groups and for that matter governments where they can make a rule that everyone has to vote to get things done within the confines of that group or government. But NO ONE or group has the right to force everyone to opt in! No one has that authority! I was not given another option! I do not like seeing my money go to support Banksters and their Rothschild created wars! This country can be run without taxation and without those criminal Banksters from Europe running things.

You are sovereign but your name is split between the sovereign you and the citizen you.

It is the Citizen name which is taxed not the sovereign you. People are not taxed, their Citizen name is, the Birth Cert is a registration of the birth of your name and so your names' Citizenship - not of the sovereign you who is free -

It is 'their' Court but no you do not have to play their game - people all through the centuries have suffered for refusing too - If you want to win against 'them' and you are right, in Law, not necessarily legally right but under The Law, and this is were, in the last years, we have seen the worst corruption in our systems, one still can win against them on their own turf - need to know your stuff though!

 

[Queen Titania]

I have studied criminal and Constitutional law for 15 years and find it to be a joke, and a very bad one without a doubt. I have researched for years only to realize that the ones that should be in prisons are instead running the country and voting themselves largesse yet very few of them end up in prison. Good people create laws to protect themselves from criminals (I believe under the heading of trespassers), unfortunately, the smartest criminals adapt and run for public office! This is the end result. Interestingly, most people are comfortable being led, rather than leading, even though it may mean being lead to slaughter. . The reason for that is that thinking is hard work. In fact it is the hardest work of all! Hitler once stated "how fortunate for those of us in power that people do not think!" Most are clueless that the Rothschild cartel took full control (again) of our monetary system with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913. I am so frustrated in my endeavors of awakening people to their folly with repeated insanity of voting for the same Democrats and Republicans who put us all under the thumbs of the Banksters to a point that we are non stop bailing them out with tax dollars. This country can be run using the Federal Reserve and a little thing called the 28th Amendment which I will post soon. It would make this country truly free as well. That is an event which only occurred one with the ousting of King George and only lasted until the so called Founding Fathers created this mess!

Please show me where Hitler said any such thing ---

Trespass and Common Law apply to all - The rest is Gov and relates only to the Citizen you and even then only on agreement with said Citizen -

As for the Talmudic and the US - yup and the rest of us too

 

[EatTheRich]

Hilarious! I'm hoping you are aware that there is no such thing as a "sovereign citizen." Secondly, you have to play within the guidelines if you are to stand a chance it one of their corrupt courtrooms. There are always alternatives. and about that tax return. Taxation is simply a euphemism for armed robbery. The point I have been trying to make is that people have the right to form groups and for that matter governments where they can make a rule that everyone has to vote to get things done within the confines of that group or government. But NO ONE or group has the right to force everyone to opt in! No one has that authority! I was not given another option! I do not like seeing my money go to support Banksters and their Rothschild created wars! This country can be run without taxation and without those criminal Banksters from Europe running things.

As Mao Zedong put it, political power comes from the barrel of a gun. "Right" doesn't enter into it except as ideological window dressing.

 

[Queen Titania]

Hilarious! I'm hoping you are aware that there is no such thing as a "sovereign citizen." Secondly, you have to play within the guidelines if you are to stand a chance it one of their corrupt courtrooms. There are always alternatives. and about that tax return. Taxation is simply a euphemism for armed robbery. The point I have been trying to make is that people have the right to form groups and for that matter governments where they can make a rule that everyone has to vote to get things done within the confines of that group or government. But NO ONE or group has the right to force everyone to opt in! No one has that authority! I was not given another option! I do not like seeing my money go to support Banksters and their Rothschild created wars! This country can be run without taxation and without those criminal Banksters from Europe running things.

Another must watch - it disappears from the web all the time! So watch it whilst it is up ------ a four parter on Bernays and the Freudians and how the US was brain washed - and the same tricks are used on the rest of the World now too - more and more.

 

[Queen Titania]

Huh ------------ gone into it a bit deeper here, England, it is more complicated in that the Midwife signs the Live Birth form which is thence forth only to be found in the mothers medical records - she alone then can get a copy and then must off to the Notary and the usual ects and then you can register it in National Archives and then ------------ you are provably the sovereign you - ooohhhh they are buggers eh?