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Will rising gas prices effect your budget?

Discussion in 'Economics, Business, and Taxes' started by American Patriot, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. degsme

    degsme Council Member

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    Yes we are affected - overly so - by gasoline prices.

    But here's your problem
    1. Absent Obama Derangement Syndrome, there is little evidence to expect gas to hit $5.00/Gal - Read what Troby Lundberg writes for a bit
    2. We are past Peak Oil - we cannot "drill" our way out of this. The ONLY Solution is to change the energy mix used
    3. Since the cause has nothing to do with Obama, and everything to do with Iran's choices, Obama has an out.
    So the "good points" made really are neither.
     
  2. American Patriot

    American Patriot Mayor

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    Redneck, Sir , I have a Masters Degree in Electrical Engineering I resent being called a redneck, a label I guess you tack on to anyone and everyone who opposes Obummer. And you , Sir , have no clue as to the technical issues associated with the Obummer Green Car the Volt, if you did you would surely be smarter than you obviously are, the batteries are still an issue of concern as is the lithium batteries used in this car are still being evaluated for their power and safety concerns, but I guess a genius like you who seem to continue to have every answer to every issue or problem cannot face real technical facts or real world issues just like Obummer.
     
  3. degsme

    degsme Council Member

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    Notice I said "redneck LIFESTYLE"...

    what is curious is that you find this insulting yet give yourself permission to make similarly insulting comments about "liberals" and "Obummer" and similar. Amazing how you seem willing to dish it out, but completely unwilling to take it.

    Actually I have a pretty darned good idea of the technical issues associated with the Chevy Volt. and they are LESS than those of a Ranger light pickup (some of the rest of us have EE and other degrees as well). Any compact energy source will have some level of hazard associated with them. but since Li batteries lack the explosive power of gasoline vapors, they are inherently less immediately dangerous than the gas tank in a light pickme up.

    And yes I can pretty much refute any "issue" you create. At the end of the day, our energy profile HAS TO CHANGE - because we are past peak oil. And that means ending our subsidies on cheap gas. Sucks if you cannot take responsibility for failing to make good investments that foresaw that.
     
  4. American Patriot

    American Patriot Mayor

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    Facts are facts, and the real truth is that the technology for electric vehicles that have adequate range, safety, speed, and reliability is just not fully developed yet. I do agree that our dependence on oil and petroleum products must change as this commodity is rapidly being eroded from our planet. As for liberals and Obummer I actually tried to keep an open mind when he was elected, however he has proven to me over and over that he has few real world solutions that actually work and he has driven our nation deeply in debt, not only that but his agendas have wasted billions if not trillions of hard earned taxpayer dollars on pipe dreams that only perpetuated his close associates and contributors at the expense of the rest of us. Liberals in general just don't seem to understand one very basic premise and that is it is impossible to spend your way into prosperity. Another issue I have with liberals is their never ending belief in the right of massive entitlements that someone must actually pay for. How about get a job, pay your own way, work hard and do not expect the government to house, feed, clothe, and medicate everyone who chooses not to work. You say you can refute every thing I mention, this may be true, but how valid is your argument if the facts are irrefutable. Oh by the way, less than 9,000 Government subsidized Chevy Volts have actually been sold since it's introduction. A very poor showing for an auto the government is willing to pay nearly one third it's sticker price for. That fact speaks for itself. Not to mention that all of them were recalled by GM due to technical issues and safety concerns, so now refute that.
     
  5. OldGaffer

    OldGaffer Governor

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    Are you unaware that the NHTSA completely cleared the Volt?


    The only thing wrong with the Volt is that it is built by GM, and Wingers have a problem with that.
     
  6. Lapcat

    Lapcat Governor

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    It already has. Spending more at the pump takes money away for other necessities.

    I will be travelling less and staying home more, as will most Americans, no doubt. So no, this is a disaster for the so-called ""recovery"".



     
  7. degsme

    degsme Council Member

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    Depends on what you define as an EV. The Volt is a form of hybrid, but one that doesn't have a hybrid drive train. The Volt is in essence the same structural drive train as the locomotives that have dominated the American RRs for the last 70 years and which was first put in to service over 110 years ago, combined with the battery storage tech of the Prius which has over 3 million vehicles sold.

    So to suggest that because long range pure EV vehicles are not yet fully developed that therefore the Volt is somehow unproven tech is reasoning that an engineer would know to avoid. Similarly since recalls exist for almost ALL vehicles, including "safe" vehicles like the Ford Ranger that I cited (which as two recalls in just the last 2 years http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/03/recall-alert-2010-ford-ranger-2011-f-series.html http://news.consumerreports.org/saf...-and-other-vehiclesmalfunctioning-lights.html ) So using your standard of "technical issues and safety concerns" - then pickups from Ford ALSO should be considered "unproven" technology.

    And as an engineer you know better


    Nor does the government subsidize the Volt specifically - you yourself admit that we need to move the nation to a different energy mix. Since the subsidies apply to all manner of EVs, this is hardly focussed on the Volt

    As for the rest of your changing of the subject, you do know that those nasty liberals

    So if the kind of policies you advocate - which places like Alabama implement - are so viable and so good for economic growth, why is it that without us blue states bailng you out on issue after issue, you wouldn't even be able to pay for rural hospitals, Fired Departments and even paving?

    When are Conservatives going to actually Take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and Pull their Own Weight?

    You're an engineer. Explain the above data in a manner that does not link the lousy, terrible economic and social outcomes of red states vs. Blue states on the policies the local economies implement. Lets hear it.
     
  8. American Patriot

    American Patriot Mayor

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    First, the technology I was in reference to was the battery and electrical components that have caused numerous fires and small explosions in the Volt. I will admit that the drive train of the Volt is quite ingenious but not new technology by any means. As for the government subsidies and tax rebates the Volt has three times the tax incentive of it's nearest competitor. I personally do not believe the taxpayers should be picking up part of the tab on any new vehicle no matter who manufactured it or where it was built nor what powers it. I had to laugh, I could care less about red states and blue states and some geographical mind stunt used to con-volute the facts about Obummer. I am not a Republican, nor a Democrat, I consider myself a very open minded Independent who has seen enough of the Obummer - Biden show. In my opinion it's time to pull the curtain and wish everyone a pleasant evening on this act. That is the bottom line.
    I completely disagree with your premise that gasoline will never reach five bucks a gallon, already in California, New York, and other parts of the country it is well above four dollars a gallon and climbing daily. Your argument that if adjusted for inflation five dollar a gallon gasoline isn't that bad would stand a chance of being valid if everyone's take home pay had also been adjusted for inflation, this however is far from the truth, in fact median income has diminished since the Obummer regime took the reins. Since Obummer has taken office I have seen my rights violated, the constitution ignored, very unethical actions taken by our justice dept, misguided and out right stupid economic decisions being made that just drove us further in debt, an attempt at a fundamental shift from a republic to a form of progressive socialism that I find extremely dis tasteful, and no it is not just the liberals and democrats, there is more than enough blame to go around. But blame has never solved a problem nor provided solutions to economic, environmental or global issues that face us right now. Someone once said that if you are ignorant you just don't know the answer, on the other hand if you are stupid you just keep making the same mistakes over and over. That is pretty much how I view Obummer, stupid, making the same mistakes over and over. Nice man, just not to bright.
     
  9. lupehernandezdepedajack

    lupehernandezdepedajack Mayor

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    Personally...not much effect if I bring a lunch from home one or two days a week no effect at all. The inflationary effect on food and other goods might take a little more effort to offset
     
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Council Member

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    Degs, I'm in agreement on most of your logic but please enlighten me on the subsidies. As I recall the taxpayer subsidize the oil industry all the while paying taxes per gallon. We're exporting subsidized ethanol, gas and other fuels and chemicals that are tax free to the seller's while gas refiner's are shutting down here from lack of user's which seems to insure price manipulation from the refiners and big oil. By illiminating subsidies I see no reason for a higher priced oil and gas as demand shrink's. If supply and demand are the equivalent of a fair market then with supply growing and our gas usage shrinking we should be getting a better deal at the pump. As far as I can see we are just being manipulated into higher price's with no real excuse for them.
     
  11. gabriel

    gabriel Governor

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    obama designed the car?
     
  12. Bruce

    Bruce Council Member

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    An Alabama Industry Profile
    Economic Development Partnership of Alabama
    www.edpa.org
    Automotive Industry
    Alabama is the home to Mercedes-Benz, Honda and Hyundai assembly plants. Other
    automakers have chosen Alabama to build their engines, including International Diesel,
    which produces advanced technology diesel engines here. When Toyota built its first V-8
    engine facility outside of Japan in 2003, it selected Alabama. Over the last 10 years, the
    automotive industry has invested over $7 billion and created more than 35,000 new jobs
    in Alabama.
    Summary
    In 1998, the first full year of production,
    Mercedes produced 68,800 units in
    Alabama. In 2005, automakers made
    479,465 cars and light trucks in
    Alabama.
    Motor vehicles were Alabama’s top
    export in 2004 at over $2.1 billion –
    equivalent to more than 23 percent of
    the state’s total exports.
    Alabama’s automotive industry
    represents ten percent of the state’s
    manufacturing gross state product.
    Prior to 1997 when the first M-Class
    rolled off Mercedes’ production line,
    Alabama produced no passenger
    vehicles. In 2004, Alabama built its
    1,000,000th automobile.
    There are more than 90 automotive
    suppliers in Alabama that serve either
    Honda, Hyundai or Mercedes.
    Alabama ranks 7th in U.S. light-truck
    production (minivans-pickups-SUVs).
    Source: Alabama Development Office Int’l. Trade Div., 2005
    Automotive News Data Center, 2005
    Economic Development Partnership of Alabama, 2005
    U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis, 2005
    Employment
    The auto industry in Alabama accounted
    for 44,834 direct jobs and 79,356 indirect
    jobs in 2005 with a total payroll of $4.8
    billion.
    Average Weekly Wage: 2004
    Alabama Motor Vehicle Mfg.: $1,318
    All Alabama Mfg Industries: $761
    All Alabama Industries: $643
    Source: Alabama Automotive Manufacturers Assn., 2006
    U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2005
    Trends
    In 1997, the first year of automotive
    manufacturing in Alabama, 1,800 persons
    were employed. In 2005, vehicle
    assembly employment grew to 11,400 in
    the state.
    When the first car made in Alabama rolled
    off the assembly line in 1997, production
    capacity was 80,000 vehicles. In 2005,
    Alabama’s production capacity reached
    760,000 vehicles annually.
    Car and truck engine manufacturing in
    Alabama began in 2001. By 2005,
    assembly capacity had risen to 1,000,000
    engines annually.
    Overview- Southern Business and Development magazine has three times in a row named Alabama
    "State of Year" most recently in 2005, based on its record of job growth and economic development.
    Growth in the automotive industry is only one example of Alabama's successful corporate investments.
    The state has long been home to many world class companies including Mercedes, Wellborn Cabinets,
    Honda, 3M, Boeing and more recently EADS, Toyota and Hyundai.
    Alabama has recorded strong economic growth numbers. Its economic cycles have mirrored those of
    the United States, though on a more moderate scale. Manufacturing is at the center of the Alabama
    economy. The manufacturing sector accounts for almost 20 percent of the gross state product and 16
    percent of the state’s nonagricultural employment. A major contributor to the state's success is AIDT,
    the state's workforce training program ranked #1 in the nation by Site Selection in 2006, helps to train a
    capable workforce for new and expanding companies.
    Alabama is a state with great economic growth. The state’s pro-business climate allows its corporate
    citizens to grow, prosper and profit. At the center of the United States’ fastest growing, most populous
    region, and with 11 metropolitan areas and a variety of industry sectors, Alabama’s economy is
    characterized by great diversity and a bright future for success.
     
  13. gabriel

    gabriel Governor

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    not really. i hedge by buying oil stocks.
     
  14. Barbella

    Barbella Senator

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    Many, many people don't HAVE that choice. They can't AFFORD to buy a new car. What's so hard to understand about THAT?
     
  15. Bruce

    Bruce Council Member

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    Alabama is a state with great economic growth. The state’s pro-business climate allows its corporate
    citizens to grow, prosper and profit
    . At the center of the United States’ fastest growing, most populous
    region, and with 11 metropolitan areas and a variety of industry sectors, Alabama’s economy is
    characterized by great diversity and a bright future for success.
    12.00 an hour jobs = Pro business climate for the corporations. Who said the slaves were freed?
     
  16. OldGaffer

    OldGaffer Governor

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    There have been no "numerous fires", you are just making shit up.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/21/business/us-finds-no-defect-in-volt.html

    The only fire was in a test vehicle, and the problem has been fixed.

     
  17. gabriel

    gabriel Governor

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    so back to the party that led you into iraq with a lie!! hahahaahahahahah
     
  18. KnotaFrayed

    KnotaFrayed Mayor

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    For those concerned about government spending? You can do the math.

    http://www.energybulletin.net/node/13199

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16281892

    Gotta love the idea of continuing to feed our addiction and the pusher's pocket books!

    But wait! Is the military smarter than the average addict?

    http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-military-to-cut-oil-consumption-4292/

    Or have they just turned into tree hugger environmentlists going all squshy and "green" like that Solyndra BS?
     
  19. lupehernandezdepedajack

    lupehernandezdepedajack Mayor

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    Yeah I heard they are developing Humvees, Bradleys and predators to run off of Solyndra collectors
     
  20. Woolleybugger

    Woolleybugger Mayor

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    Urban sprawl and the lack of mass transit has forced us into using personal oil consumption devices as our primary means of transportation. Had we decided to build smarter communities based upon mixed use in centralized areas with excellent transportation facilities, we would not care much about the price of gas would we? Take a look at Europe. They know how to build cities and towns...
     
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