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You are a partisan hack if...

RickWA

Snagglesooth
"When you talk about pluralist order. I think yeah, that exactly what was done with by liberals during the civil rights movement and how they were labeled as out of town troublemakers. In that bit of hindsight the pluralist order was the enemy of freedom, and I am very glad they were the opponents of it."

Pluralist order - at least in the context I use it here - references the acceptance that PLURALISM - or multiple competing private interests all vie to influence government. Today's left seeks to shut down non-leftist private entities and/or eliminate their ability to have a voice. From Chick-fil-a to radio hosts - the examples are legion. Shut down flower shops and bakeries. Slash and burn.

"When I think of the words of Jesus I say he would have made the Communist blush with his statements anti materialism, and that he would see current Christians as prideful strangers who turned a deaf ear to the heart of his message."

Jesus was born among, traveled with, and ministered to private citizens. At no point did He seek to assume worldly power - be it political or even that of the Jewish hierarchy. At no point did He seek out the seat of power. Never did He travel to Rome. That the left seeks to selectively milk His example on select issues and utterly soil His name and words on others is one of its greatest trespasses. And it continues unabated. Many on the left have no idea just how giving Christians are as individuals and instead attempt to judge believers based on state and public policy preferences. That is heresy. Pure perversion. It's wrong and is Biblically inaccurate. We share whatever wealth we have - of our own volition, and through the agencies of our choosing. We give of our resources and of ourselves - mostly without a government proxy. We are witnesses of Christ's love, not the state. We are to be the salt and light. We are His direct agents in this world. He says so.

"Right now I am working my way through a book titled Why they do it. I think it's a good commentary on the slippery slope between free enterprise and plain old criminal conduct. How easy it was for them to slide from one to the other and hard it was for them to realize they had done so. In every case so far was about ego and the need to see themselves as something smarter and better than the system that surrounded them, rather than creatures of it. It makes it easy to see how the pursuit of enterprise to obtain the intangible things inside of themselves through it was their real downfall."

Egos. Criminals. Greed. Being "seen as above the system"...

Politician, Public Employee, and Hyper-political creatures, heal thyselves. One could readily say the same thing - and to far greater a degree...about the non-private enterprise that is government. Most pols exit the public stage quite wealthy. The state has armies and police forces. The state leverages exclusively public capital. The state regulates itself (aside from elections). And yet...look at the blind spot. Look at the acute-yet-chronic unique demonization of the private sector.

"I think individualism is a fair weather sociological myth. In the bad times, soldiers at war, survivors of a large disaster or any other huge unrest, people are drawn together. I think that aspect is rooted in use since hominids were swinging in trees. That is our true survival mechanism embedded in our nature."

Voluntarily when chosen - whether out of circumstance or general preference - I agree. When coercively collectivized and mandated as pooled resource, not so much.

"While Trump may certainly be all of the things you describe. I think first and foremost he is a mentally ill individual. I think it has been of full display since very early in his campaign. I think much of his behavior reflects the fact that he has a serious personality disorder. I think the real fault lays with the people and groups who would accept the trade off between his illness for their agenda."

Voters always accept their candidate with his/her faults and frailties as well as his/her strengths/qualities. This is nothing new. Likewise, detractors focus uniquely on the deficiencies to the careful neglect of any good. This is also nothing new. Grain of salt.
I don't like Trump. He is a terrible role model. He won't be president forever.


"This leads me to the two parties both being terrible. I think okra and arsenic are both terrible. But it I have to choose between the two I'll take okra thank you."

The proper analogy would be arsenic and hemlock...although both parties are largely led by vegetables.
 

Spamature

President
Pluralist order - at least in the context I use it here - references the acceptance that PLURALISM - or multiple competing private interests all vie to influence government. Today's left seeks to shut down non-leftist private entities and/or eliminate their ability to have a voice. From Chick-fil-a to radio hosts - the examples are legion. Shut down flower shops and bakeries. Slash and burn.
So chick fil a gets to promote to the govt their agenda and the victims of that agenda should shut up and a let them instead of counting that agenda through activism ? Considering how these day media host have a direct pipeline to the POTUS should those who oppose their views also just sit down and shut up ? You sell flowers, cakes, chicken sandwiches. Then maybe pissing off members of the public just might be a bad business strategy because word of mouth is a killer.
Jesus was born among, traveled with, and ministered to private citizens. At no point did He seek to assume worldly power - be it political or even that of the Jewish hierarchy. At no point did He seek out the seat of power. Never did He travel to Rome. That the left seeks to selectively milk His example on select issues and utterly soil His name and words on others is one of its greatest trespasses. And it continues unabated. Many on the left have no idea just how giving Christians are as individuals and instead attempt to judge believers based on state and public policy preferences. That is heresy. Pure perversion. It's wrong and is Biblically inaccurate. We share whatever wealth we have - of our own volition, and through the agencies of our choosing. We give of our resources and of ourselves - mostly without a government proxy. We are witnesses of Christ's love, not the state. We are to be the salt and light. We are His direct agents in this world. He says so.
His words are perversions ? Simple question above all other things in "this world", not the kingdom of Heaven, what did he want people to do ? It surely wasn't beating up trans people in public bathrooms. Many Muslims are truly giving individuals as are many Atheist. That is really as much if not more dependent upon the individual. Yeah and wealth giving from religion only makes up 5% of what is needed. The rest has to be born by that govt proxy you allude to because agents of Christian charity isn't enough for this hard cruel world.


Egos. Criminals. Greed. Being "seen as above the system"...

Politician, Public Employee, and Hyper-political creatures, heal thyselves. One could readily say the same thing - and to far greater a degree...about the non-private enterprise that is government. Most pols exit the public stage quite wealthy. The state has armies and police forces. The state leverages exclusively public capital. The state regulates itself (aside from elections). And yet...look at the blind spot. Look at the acute-yet-chronic unique demonization of the private sector.
I am not demonizing the private sector. And if anything politicians and public employees are more aware of being part of the system than any other group of people considering their lives and livelihoods are embedded within it. Yes the system as armies and police forces. It also has doctors and rescue workers and lawyers to defend your right if you don't have the means to do so yourself. All of it is a non voluntary collective. You are born into it. But you are free to leave for another in some other country as well. But I doubt if you can find a place without one either better or worse. You can even change it, but not alone. You have to find a collection of people to go along with you and then become the system yourselves and are subject to the same human frailties they face.

Voters always accept their candidate with his/her faults and frailties as well as his/her strengths/qualities. This is nothing new. Likewise, detractors focus uniquely on the deficiencies to the careful neglect of any good. This is also nothing new. Grain of salt.
I don't like Trump. He is a terrible role model. He won't be president forever.
NO! This is something new and never seen before, in our nation at least. Saying he won't be here forever is like saying the rattlesnake that bit you won't be here forever. The deed is done. The poison is coursing through our veins. Who cares about the future of the snake at that point. You can tell me how bad he is. But tell me this about right now.

Do you think he's guilty of what he is being charged with, and should he be removed from office for it ?
 

EatTheRich

President
Loyally supporting a Leninist party means two things:

1. We fight as individuals and party supporters to make sure our party doesn’t adapt itself to attempting to take sides in the petty Beltway-politics games of big-business parties such as the Democrats or Republicans. Instead, we always look to take advantage of their divisions to advance the working-class interest, or ignore those turf wars the working class has no stake in.
2. We show iron discipline to the party line. Criticism comes in private correspondence with party members or when party members vote for new officers ... not when it exposes to the public and to the class enemy divisions in the ranks of party supporters. This Bolshevik discipline is how the party wins decisive battles in the class war. Of course, when a revolutionary party degenerates into a counterrevolutionary party, this great strength of Bolshevism becomes a great weakness. But it is up to communists to recognize this moment and wage a political fight for a revolutionary party, and successfully avoiding degeneration depends more than anything else on the international revolution continuing to move forward.

I am proudly a disciplined partisan but far from a hack.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
So chick fil a gets to promote to the govt their agenda and the victims of that agenda should shut up and a let them instead of counting that agenda through activism ? Considering how these day media host have a direct pipeline to the POTUS should those who oppose their views also just sit down and shut up ? You sell flowers, cakes, chicken sandwiches. Then maybe pissing off members of the public just might be a bad business strategy because word of mouth is a killer.


His words are perversions ? Simple question above all other things in "this world", not the kingdom of Heaven, what did he want people to do ? It surely wasn't beating up trans people in public bathrooms. Many Muslims are truly giving individuals as are many Atheist. That is really as much if not more dependent upon the individual. Yeah and wealth giving from religion only makes up 5% of what is needed. The rest has to be born by that govt proxy you allude to because agents of Christian charity isn't enough for this hard cruel world.




I am not demonizing the private sector. And if anything politicians and public employees are more aware of being part of the system than any other group of people considering their lives and livelihoods are embedded within it. Yes the system as armies and police forces. It also has doctors and rescue workers and lawyers to defend your right if you don't have the means to do so yourself. All of it is a non voluntary collective. You are born into it. But you are free to leave for another in some other country as well. But I doubt if you can find a place without one either better or worse. You can even change it, but not alone. You have to find a collection of people to go along with you and then become the system yourselves and are subject to the same human frailties they face.



NO! This is something new and never seen before, in our nation at least. Saying he won't be here forever is like saying the rattlesnake that bit you won't be here forever. The deed is done. The poison is coursing through our veins. Who cares about the future of the snake at that point. You can tell me how bad he is. But tell me this about right now.

Do you think he's guilty of what he is being charged with, and should he be removed from office for it ?
Illuminating, thanks. We could continue talking past one another, but truth and accuracy no longer matter. Fidelity to text meaning and focus on direct historical context doesn’t matter. Across all of the issues covered, what is operative is utility to agenda. Preconceived, predetermined agenda.

We will never align because you are not, nor will ever be a “constructionist” or originalist in observation of Bibles, constitutions, or basic history. I don’t intend this as criticism or insult. It simply is. What you or I consider “progress” is properly subservient to the standard or charter in my value system. What you consider “progress” is the charter in your value system...and that progress is achieved politically, publicly. That’s about 180 degrees difference.
 

Spamature

President
Illuminating, thanks. We could continue talking past one another, but truth and accuracy no longer matter. Fidelity to text meaning and focus on direct historical context doesn’t matter. Across all of the issues covered, what is operative is utility to agenda. Preconceived, predetermined agenda.

We will never align because you are not, nor will ever be a “constructionist” or originalist in observation of Bibles, constitutions, or basic history. I don’t intend this as criticism or insult. It simply is. What you or I consider “progress” is properly subservient to the standard or charter in my value system. What you consider “progress” is the charter in your value system...and that progress is achieved politically, publicly. That’s about 180 degrees difference.
I asked you a question about you, not me.

Separate yourself from the political hacks in your response.

Be illuminating and give an honest answer.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
I asked you a question about you, not me.

Separate yourself from the political hacks in your response.

Be illuminating and give an honest answer.
Sigh. The singular item of interest from this protracted exchange is the political “do you agree with me on Trump”? How anyone can be so emptily one-dimensional, I do not understand. Just sad.

Here’s your answer:

Based on what I’ve seen, read, viewed, and heard to date:

1) Trump probably hoped to unearth dirt on Biden/Biden’s family RE: Burisma. Notwithstanding robotic lefty incuriousity about the apparent Biden hackery, Trump looks like a dude who wanted and sought “dirt”
2) The case for the above has not been made on a level that would suffice in a real prosecution (rather than a strictly political impeachment proceeding). However, impeachment is a strictly political process - and he was/is impeached.
3) Our politicians are a miserably entrenched lot - they pretty much walk in lockstep and adhere to party line. Few are the “Mavericks”. Few are the principled. Fewer still are the citizens who demand such.
4) Trump sucks irrespective of these constant political assaults aimed at de-legitimizing his original election, his future candidacy, etc.

Ok, make with the obligatory stuff.
 

Spamature

President
Sigh. The singular item of interest from this protracted exchange is the political “do you agree with me on Trump”? How anyone can be so emptily one-dimensional, I do not understand. Just sad.

Here’s your answer:

Based on what I’ve seen, read, viewed, and heard to date:

1) Trump probably hoped to unearth dirt on Biden/Biden’s family RE: Burisma. Notwithstanding robotic lefty incuriousity about the apparent Biden hackery, Trump looks like a dude who wanted and sought “dirt”
2) The case for the above has not been made on a level that would suffice in a real prosecution (rather than a strictly political impeachment proceeding). However, impeachment is a strictly political process - and he was/is impeached.
3) Our politicians are a miserably entrenched lot - they pretty much walk in lockstep and adhere to party line. Few are the “Mavericks”. Few are the principled. Fewer still are the citizens who demand such.
4) Trump sucks irrespective of these constant political assaults aimed at de-legitimizing his original election, his future candidacy, etc.

Ok, make with the obligatory stuff.
You told me all I need to know.

Because a real world prosecution would have already be talking plea deal.

You almost had me there though.

PS

Could you please stop whining about talking politics on a political forum.
 
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RickWA

Snagglesooth
You told me all I need to know.

Because a real world prosecution would have already be talking plea deal.

You almost had me there though.

PS

Could you please stop whining about talking politics on a political forum.
Ok. Forgive me for hoping for a better, more real connection. Have a nice night.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
Honestly.
I don't think I can tell you anything that you haven't already made up your mind to believe.
Sure. That’s a bombshell.

Did you ever offer up critique of a lefty the way I recognize the hundreds of deficiencies of conservative pols?

Never mind. We’ve had this exchange before. Each and every time you excuse yourself and just move along. You’ve seen who I criticized in this very strand. You’ve seen this before many, many times. You will continue to see this.

Folks can define “hack” however they want. It’s not my concern. Good evening.
 

Spamature

President
Sure. That’s a bombshell.

Did you ever offer up critique of a lefty the way I recognize the hundreds of deficiencies of conservative pols?

Never mind. We’ve had this exchange before. Each and every time you excuse yourself and just move along. You’ve seen who I criticized in this very strand. You’ve seen this before many, many times. You will continue to see this.

Folks can define “hack” however they want. It’s not my concern. Good evening.
There are deficiencies in all politicians regardless of the side. The difference for me is that Democrats tend to make me cringe more than anything else. Because the truth is that if elected Dems in DC did what the Republicans in DC do as a counter to Republican behavior. The nation would be destroyed. They are the party trying to hold this nation together while the Republicans have for the past 20 yrs pulled us toward that abyss. I don't call him a teabagger messiah for the sheer insult of the phrase. I call Trump that because he is the man this ugliness has been waiting for and he has arrived.

Yes you criticize Trump. But you won't criticize there being a Trump presidency. Because if you did you would have to criticize the real problem. I understand that if you were truly honest about that your fellow conservative would find you as repulsive as they do me.

I am not interested in having you agree with me. Agreeing with me would be as boring and pointless as a sports contest where both side win. Yea !

I want you to be honest, that's all. Anything else makes one a political hack.
 
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Spamature

President
You're a partisan hack if you want testimony from a member of the Biden family to testify.

Especially if you can not answer this question.

What do you think the Bidens know about the activities of Trump and his administration officials in Ukraine in regards to withholding the military aid ?
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
There are deficiencies in all politicians regardless of the side. The difference for me is that Democrats tend to make me cringe more than anything else. Because the truth is that if elected Dems in DC did what the Republicans in DC do as a counter to Republican behavior. The nation would be destroyed. They are the party trying to hold this nation together while the Republicans have for the past 20 yrs pulled us toward that abyss. I don't call him a teabagger messiah for the sheer insult of the phrase. I call Trump that because he is the man this ugliness has been waiting for and he has arrived.

Yes you criticize Trump. But you won't criticize there being a Trump presidency. Because if you did you would have to criticize the real problem. I understand that if you were truly honest about that your fellow conservative would find you as repulsive as they do me.

I am not interested in having you agree with me. Agreeing with me would be as boring and pointless as a sports contest where both side win. Yea !

I want you to be honest, that's all. Anything else makes one a political hack.
You couldn't possibly know the reason that "I don't criticize there being a Trump presidency". For you to categorically offer my "reason" is shamefully dishonest, particularly in a post in which you state, "I want you to be honest, that's all".

How does any adult reconcile such a thing? In a single post no less. That's astonishing, spamature. Does even THIS prompt any introspection at all? Just a tad?

As for criticizing Trump - as I did Obama and Bush before him - I criticize the person, the character, some decisions, some polices. I do not criticize the existence of ANY of their presidencies because they each won the electoral college. They won. Enough people in enough places voted for them.

Finally, if you haven't noticed I don't spend a ton of time in this forum. I certainly don't tread on eggshells for fear of some people finding me repulsive. It is a discussion forum and that is all. I give my honest thoughts and people can choose how they view me. It really isn't my problem.
 

Spamature

President
You couldn't possibly know the reason that "I don't criticize there being a Trump presidency". For you to categorically offer my "reason" is shamefully dishonest, particularly in a post in which you state, "I want you to be honest, that's all".

How does any adult reconcile such a thing? In a single post no less. That's astonishing, spamature. Does even THIS prompt any introspection at all? Just a tad?

As for criticizing Trump - as I did Obama and Bush before him - I criticize the person, the character, some decisions, some polices. I do not criticize the existence of ANY of their presidencies because they each won the electoral college. They won. Enough people in enough places voted for them.

Finally, if you haven't noticed I don't spend a ton of time in this forum. I certainly don't tread on eggshells for fear of some people finding me repulsive. It is a discussion forum and that is all. I give my honest thoughts and people can choose how they view me. It really isn't my problem.
Well, you're here now.

So why don't you criticize the fact that there is a Trump presidency in the first place ?
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
Well, you're here now.

So why don't you criticize the fact that there is a Trump presidency in the first place ?
Because that's who enough voters voted for. Did you ever see me criticize the existence of the Obama presidency? That doesn't make sense to me. It does make sense to criticize what an elected president says, proposes, and does...but not his very existence.

So that's a "no" then on the self-awareness thing in calling for honesty while simultaneously doing something less than honest?
 

Spamature

President
Because that's who enough voters voted for. Did you ever see me criticize the existence of the Obama presidency? That doesn't make sense to me. It does make sense to criticize what an elected president says, proposes, and does...but not his very existence.

So that's a "no" then on the self-awareness thing in calling for honesty while simultaneously doing something less than honest?
So ? That is true for every politician elected by the people.

Yeah all the time I heard that from you. You blamed it on status who were sycophants and it was their misguided understanding of real liberalism at play in the election and support of Obama. You must have used that in just about every post you made during his admin.
It was a constant harangue on your part when ever you participated in this forum.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
So ? That is true for every politician elected by the people.

Yeah all the time I heard that from you. You blamed it on status who were sycophants and it was their misguided understanding of real liberalism at play in the election and support of Obama. You must have used that in just about every post you made during his admin.
It was a constant harangue on your part when ever you participated in this forum.
I "blamed" nothing. I noted how uncritical and unserious most of Obama's supporters on this forum were/are. There was no evidence of critiquing anything he said or did. I, however, criticized some things he did and praised others. So it was with Bush. So it is with Trump. I note what I agree with as well as things with which I disagree.

SW48 has demonstrated that there are far too many robotic sycophants in these parts. I've demonstrated that there is likewise precious little introspection, reciprocity, and self-awareness. That's an adulthood thing - and it is sorely lacking.
 

Spamature

President
I "blamed" nothing. I noted how most of Obama's supporters on this forum were/are. There was no evidence of critiquing anything he said or did. I, however, criticized some things he did and praised others. So it was with Bush. So it is with Trump. I note what I agree with as well as things with which I disagree.

SW48 has demonstrated that there are far too many robotic sycophants in these parts. I've demonstrated that there is likewise precious little introspection, reciprocity, and self-awareness. That's an adulthood thing - and it is sorely lacking.
Yet you will not address the "uncritical and unserious" nature of Trump support and defense of his antics as opposed to your explicit and demeaning statements about Obama supporters for defending a decent human being.

SW48 ?
Are you trying to use someone else's statement as if it is an example of your own ?
Because if anything you jumped on the Trumpie bandwagon with your answer to the question about his impeachment trial. I don't know if that came from an "uncritical and unserious" viewing of the facts or if you just pulled it out of your rear end for the sake of saving face with his supporters here. But it sure seemed like a strange thing to say.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
Yet you will not address the "uncritical and unserious" nature of Trump support and defense of his antics as opposed to your explicit and demeaning statements about Obama supporters for defending a decent human being.

SW48 ?
Are you trying to use someone else's statement as if it is an example of your own ?
Because if anything you jumped on the Trumpie bandwagon with your answer to the question about his impeachment trial. I don't know if that came from an "uncritical and unserious" viewing of the facts or if you just pulled it out of your rear end for the sake of saving face with his supporters here. But it sure seemed like a strange thing to say.
You seem to be incapable of honest, decent discussion. Any person who is uncritical of a sitting prez is not doing his civic job as citizen. SW48 demonstrates what I said he demonstrated by posting this thread and flushing out the responses that resulted. I demonstrated what I said I demonstrated by posting what I posted within his OP. Trump disgusts me, but I find the evidence for much of what he is accused of to be insufficient.
All of the above is my sincere judgment - and at NO point did I project YOUR motives as you did mine.

In other words...as usual...I was honest and forthright throughout our exchange, while you leveraged projection and dishonesty.

You aren’t worth my time. Good night.
 

Spamature

President
You seem to be incapable of honest, decent discussion. Any person who is uncritical of a sitting prez is not doing his civic job as citizen. SW48 demonstrates what I said he demonstrated by posting this thread and flushing out the responses that resulted. I demonstrated what I said I demonstrated by posting what I posted within his OP. Trump disgusts me, but I find the evidence for much of what he is accused of to be insufficient.
All of the above is my sincere judgment - and at NO point did I project YOUR motives as you did mine.

In other words...as usual...I was honest and forthright throughout our exchange, while you leveraged projection and dishonesty.

You aren’t worth my time. Good night.
You absolutely projected my motives in this thread.
Sigh. The singular item of interest from this protracted exchange is the political “do you agree with me on Trump”? How anyone can be so emptily one-dimensional, I do not understand. Just sad.
And let's not pretend your pattern isn't as easy to see through as open window.
You attacked people for defending Obama while never saying a word about the people who attacked him.

Now you are attacking people who attack Trump(if you believe they are liberals) without saying a word about the people who defend the very things you say you are disgusted by in him.

Now say that isn't the truth.
 
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