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How to get out of your timeshare

reason10

Governor
I've been hearing this ad on talk radio quite a bit. This subject may come closer to political because a "get you out of your timeshare" company bought time on Sean Hannity's radio show.

Just curious if anyone here knows.

What is a timeshare? What is the concept?

In the state of Florida, a special license is needed to sell timeshare. What kind of license is it?

Are people STUCK in their timeshares? If so, why?


(This will be fun for me to watch because I know all the answers. In the late 80s I used to sell timeshare in Florida.)

I wonder if anyone knows the answer.
 
I've been hearing this ad on talk radio quite a bit. This subject may come closer to political because a "get you out of your timeshare" company bought time on Sean Hannity's radio show.

Just curious if anyone here knows.

What is a timeshare? What is the concept?

In the state of Florida, a special license is needed to sell timeshare. What kind of license is it?

Are people STUCK in their timeshares? If so, why?


(This will be fun for me to watch because I know all the answers. In the late 80s I used to sell timeshare in Florida.)

I wonder if anyone knows the answer.
A timeshare is a hole in the ground in which you pour money.
 

bdtex

Administrator
Staff member
I've been hearing this ad on talk radio quite a bit. This subject may come closer to political because a "get you out of your timeshare" company bought time on Sean Hannity's radio show.

Just curious if anyone here knows.

What is a timeshare? What is the concept?

In the state of Florida, a special license is needed to sell timeshare. What kind of license is it?

Are people STUCK in their timeshares? If so, why?


(This will be fun for me to watch because I know all the answers. In the late 80s I used to sell timeshare in Florida.)

I wonder if anyone knows the answer.
It's one of those things that sounds like a great idea at the time you purchase it.
 

reason10

Governor
Are people STUCK in their timeshares? If so, why?

Quit stalling. Tell us a sad story of some poor sap who felt you pulled the wool over his eyes.
To hear those ads talk, you would think a timeshare is something rather nebulous. As far as my involvement, I wasn't any good at selling it There were few poor saps walking through the gates at the resorts where I sold.

In the state of Florida, timeshare is ownership in a condo, which requires a real estate license to sell. The concept is the idea of having a second home to go to for vacation.

(It gets better.)

Because an average Joe, or family doesn't need a condo for more than a week, the condo is sold in increments of time, of weeks. Around the mid-eighties an average timeshare up the street from the main gate of Disney World would retail to about $9000. Yes, that would mean the condo would cost around $450,000. Around the mid-80s the only homes in Central Florida costing that much were mansions in Windermere, Dr. Phillips area or Sweetwater or Heathrow. (Heathrow had homes that looked like the Clampett Mansion).

But a vacationer only had to pay $9000 for a week's ownership. I know what you're thinking. Why would a vacationer want to go to Disney World year after year? That's where Resort Condominiums International RCI comes in. The concept is you could exchange your week for a week anywhere in the world through RCI. At the time I was selling Resort World, the weeks were traded through Interval International (II), a competitive company. So one $9000 week of timeshare in the high demand Disney region could be used to trade to go to Hawaii, Europe, Tahiti, (pick the spot.)

RCI began as a vacation club ripoff scam. And somehow it actually worked. The crooks who put it together actually became successful. People used it and were happy.

Oh, these "Get you out of your timeshare" companies mention spiraling out of control maintenance fees, an unpopular feature each real estate agent was required by law to mention during the pitch. All condo associations have assessment fees due every month, or every year. These include funds for maintenance, utilities and property taxes. (It IS real estate.) Beach properties obviously would have higher maintenance fees because of the sand, the higher insurance costs and possible repairs from storms if they are in hurricane alley.
 

reason10

Governor
How would you get out of your timeshare? Simple. Sell your $9000 week. Have the person buying it to assume the deed. Sound easy?

Maybe not so easy. it is impossible to get timeshare financing, and it's unlikely the average Joe out there has an extra $9000 in his pocket.

Oh, yeah I forgot. Timeshare resorts have their own financing, so that everyone who walks through the door is automatically qualified. Of course, this is possible because--at least in the late 80s, early 90s--the interest rate was around the Jimmy Carter 18 percent levels. Of course anyone could get a $9000 loan at that rate. And the customers were all told that all they could easily find better financing when they got home

Today, not so easy. It IS impossible to get any kind of financing for a timeshare, outside of the resorts. And timeshares these days start at around $20,000.

Around the early 90s there used to be timeshare resale companies, often located close to the Disney resorts. The timeshare resorts HATED these places because they were undercutting the cost of weeks. In time, the state of Florida shut these resale places down because they were ripping people off, (stuff like selling a week that did not exist, selling a week without a deed, etc)

Some of the bigger companies (Marriott, Wyndam, etc,) got into the timeshare business, and of course their weeks are WAY more expensive. But even they didn't have resale brokers in the system, and that would have been an AMAZING stream of revenue.
 

reason10

Governor
So what about those companies today that can get you out of your timeshare?

In the industry, it was discovered that they require an up front fee. And then you never hear from them again. Apparently they are doing well because they have enough money to buy ads on Sean Hannity's radio show.

Is all timeshare bad?

There are some resorts on the West Coast of Florida where people in the early 80s bought sometimes an entire month or (I've actually seen this) THREE MONTHS worth of timeshares. That many weeks. And these people come down to these resorts every year and stay the entire time. So they may have paid $3000 a week in 81 and every year they get to spend a month in what amounts to a multi million dollar Gulf front Condo for an initial investment of about $12,000. (Yes, condos on the Gulf run in the millions, in places like Naples, Captiva Island, etc)

There are brokers who sell timeshare in those areas. The problem is not customers. There are tons of customers who want to buy. And today, a week of Gulf front timeshare (and I've personally seen the ads) can run around $80,000 EASILY. Thing is, nobody wants to sell. They HAVE their second home for vacation and it cost them a fraction of what second homes in IOWA would run today.
 

reason10

Governor
Was I any good at selling timeshare?

In the beginning, timeshare salesmen got rich. A young 19 year old kid selling at Westgate Resorts (near Disney) in the late Seventies retired a multi millionaire about 20 years ago.

I was never good at selling that product. I'll admit it. I wasn't cut out to be a salesman. And I wasn't prepared to pitch heat like the veterans.

(In sales, kinda like politics, there are two kinds of lies. The small white lie that doesn't hurt anybody, and pitching heat, which is the lie that does. "Yes, if you own timeshare, you fly anywhere in the world for free, guaranteed." That's pitching heat. )

Problem today in Central Florida is (a) there are still timeshare resorts all over the place and (b) the area has become such a traffic nightmare that nobody wants to subject their family to that very expensive ordeal for more than only once in a lifetime.

Selling Timeshare in Central Florida is a losing proposition. If you want to get rich in real estate there, sell housing. People are moving into the area in record rates and houses/apartments/condos, etc are popping up all over the place. Demand is through the roof.

Or you could sell cars and get rich. The local roads STILL haven't caught up to traffic, in terms of construction and cars are selling like crazy.

Anyway, I moved away from that shee ite hole around 2003. I don't miss it at all.
 

reason10

Governor
A timeshare is a hole in the ground in which you pour money.
For some people, yes. There are a lot who are using their timeshares for their vacations. The sales pitch was "you're going to spend that money on hotels anyway. Buy a piece of condo real estate by the week and own your own second home. Exchange it to anywhere in the world and it's like you own second homes all over the world, for the cost of one week of a condo here."

Some people don't vacation any more. For them, the maintenance fees associated with their deeded condo (and ALL condo associations, timeshare or not, come with maintenance fees and property taxes) can run into quite a few bucks, depending on the area they own a week.

There are those who own multiple weeks of timeshare in certain really deep pocket resort regions of Florida. They will actually come down and spend (I've actually seen this) as much as three months in the sun, in a million dollar condo that they bought those 18 weeks in the early 80s for as little as $3000 a week. So they only need to use this multi million dollar condo for an initial investment of $54,000, plus the cost of maintenance.

And right now ONE of their weeks is worth (and I've actually seen the ads at one on-site brokerage) around $80,000. And demand for these $80K plus weeks is through the roof today.

Of course, if someone owns a typical Central Florida $5000 week and that someone can't afford to vacation any more, that person still has to pay taxes and maintenance for that real estate. The agent who sold that person the week was required by law to mention those fees and actually write down the exact amount. And after the credit card was swiped and documents were signed, the new buyer had to appear before a licensed Deeder, who would explain every aspect of timeshare ownership, BY LAW.

The ads for "We'll get you out of your timeshare" don't tell you that they require an up front fee and that they never call you again after they get the fee. Why? It is impossible to get off site timeshare financing.

Of course, you could simply deed your week to another human being. That's a valid real estate transaction. Just give it to someone else, and explain all the laws, maintenance fees, exchange clubs, etc.

Good luck with that transaction.
 

reason10

Governor
It's one of those things that sounds like a great idea at the time you purchase it.
The average timeshare sales pitch would make the typical used car salesman look like a Benedictine Monk by comparison. The idea is the math works out. What you are currently spending for hotel rooms could be just redirected into a week of deeded ownership in a condo in a resort area.

You take the tour of the beautiful resort and then finally to the unit, which can be one to three bedrooms. The final leg of the tour is the master bathroom, with that huge jaccuzi in the middle.

Then the haggling in the sales room.

A lot of licensed real estate agents got rich. A lot of them were rich enough to get into cocaine and shove those wonderful commissions up their nose.

I was never good at it. I decided to go back to college and got a better career.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
To hear those ads talk, you would think a timeshare is something rather nebulous. As far as my involvement, I wasn't any good at selling it There were few poor saps walking through the gates at the resorts where I sold.

In the state of Florida, timeshare is ownership in a condo, which requires a real estate license to sell. The concept is the idea of having a second home to go to for vacation.

(It gets better.)

Because an average Joe, or family doesn't need a condo for more than a week, the condo is sold in increments of time, of weeks. Around the mid-eighties an average timeshare up the street from the main gate of Disney World would retail to about $9000. Yes, that would mean the condo would cost around $450,000. Around the mid-80s the only homes in Central Florida costing that much were mansions in Windermere, Dr. Phillips area or Sweetwater or Heathrow. (Heathrow had homes that looked like the Clampett Mansion).

But a vacationer only had to pay $9000 for a week's ownership. I know what you're thinking. Why would a vacationer want to go to Disney World year after year? That's where Resort Condominiums International RCI comes in. The concept is you could exchange your week for a week anywhere in the world through RCI. At the time I was selling Resort World, the weeks were traded through Interval International (II), a competitive company. So one $9000 week of timeshare in the high demand Disney region could be used to trade to go to Hawaii, Europe, Tahiti, (pick the spot.)

RCI began as a vacation club ripoff scam. And somehow it actually worked. The crooks who put it together actually became successful. People used it and were happy.

Oh, these "Get you out of your timeshare" companies mention spiraling out of control maintenance fees, an unpopular feature each real estate agent was required by law to mention during the pitch. All condo associations have assessment fees due every month, or every year. These include funds for maintenance, utilities and property taxes. (It IS real estate.) Beach properties obviously would have higher maintenance fees because of the sand, the higher insurance costs and possible repairs from storms if they are in hurricane alley.
Somehow it figures that you'd have been part of one of those high pressure schemes...RCI never seemed to have any vacancies anywhere we wanted to go, but didn't mind taking in my four weeks on Kauai without us ever getting anything we wanted...."Hey...how'd you like to vacation in West Va?" ....we were constantly offered place they'd have to pay me to go to.

One our resort was sold it was one shit show after another. It finally ended up with Diamond Resorts and anybody who does business with them is courting disaster.
Their secret plan to take control of the board and put one VPs mother-in-law in unit so she could be on the board and reducing the board from 9 to 5 people with 3 of them employees of Diamond was the last step before they doubled maintenance and did a special assessment for $11k for my weeks.

There is a damned good reason for all those ads to help you get out of timeshares.
 

reason10

Governor
Somehow it figures that you'd have been part of one of those high pressure schemes...RCI never seemed to have any vacancies anywhere we wanted to go, but didn't mind taking in my four weeks on Kauai without us ever getting anything we wanted...."Hey...how'd you like to vacation in West Va?" ....we were constantly offered place they'd have to pay me to go to.

One our resort was sold it was one shit show after another. It finally ended up with Diamond Resorts and anybody who does business with them is courting disaster.
Their secret plan to take control of the board and put one VPs mother-in-law in unit so she could be on the board and reducing the board from 9 to 5 people with 3 of them employees of Diamond was the last step before they doubled maintenance and did a special assessment for $11k for my weeks.

There is a damned good reason for all those ads to help you get out of timeshares.
My brother, (who is still a realtor) used to sell for Diamond resorts. HIs experience wasn't a positive one.

I wasn't very good at sales because I had a problem with the lie. The lie was the original price I was required to write down at the end of the tour. I would have to get the couple to commit to wanting to buy it if they could afford that price. Then I would call in a TO, who would further canoodle them about a new pre-construction project on the property and an option package he had offered but a week came back. He was looking to unload that week at the option price and he was under the gun to do so. Whatever price he wrote down on was the resort's actually retail price. Yes, it was bait and switch. That was the pressure, the lure of the quick deal. (And this "option drop" was used at almost every resort I worked at. I had worked at several.)

If you ask most timeshare owners why they bought, they'll tell you it was because they were offered a great deal they couldn't refuse.

I lasted a little over a year. In the final days, I just couldn't face anybody, and being around some of those other timeshare salesmen caused me to need a shower afterwards.

Disney got into the timeshare business. Their weeks, of course cost a lot more. And they weren't deeded real estate because all of Disney property in Florida is located on the Reedy Creek District, a stretch of land that is almost a separate country from the state of Florida. Walt Disney entered into this agreement back in the late Seventies with the government of Florida. Pretty much Reedy Creek district could do whatever it wanted provided it maintained title to all the real estate on the property.

While you're shaking your head and wondering what in the name of Zeus's Butthole I just said, you might want to drive by those high rise deep pocket Disney hotels and resort on the property. NONE of them own the land. They are all leasing that land from Disney. Everything at Disney Village and Downtown Disney is leased. Virgin Records used to own a giant record store there back in the 90s. It did not own the land beneath. It was leasing the land.

There is a neighborhood called Celebration City, located in a nicer section of Kissimmee, close to I-4 and hwy 192. Their homes (two bedroom simple design with white picket fences) started at around $250,000 about 25 years ago, and that quarter mil would buy you a 100 year right to use.


Yes, I couldn't want to move out of that crowded hell hole of a town.
 

reason10

Governor
I could go on for a MONTH about my experience in that region. It would raise a lot of eyebrows and provide for some pretty decent discussion, with very little rancor. It's one of those things where we could debate it and we'd still agree on the concepts.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
My brother, (who is still a realtor) used to sell for Diamond resorts. HIs experience wasn't a positive one.

I wasn't very good at sales because I had a problem with the lie. The lie was the original price I was required to write down at the end of the tour. I would have to get the couple to commit to wanting to buy it if they could afford that price. Then I would call in a TO, who would further canoodle them about a new pre-construction project on the property and an option package he had offered but a week came back. He was looking to unload that week at the option price and he was under the gun to do so. Whatever price he wrote down on was the resort's actually retail price. Yes, it was bait and switch. That was the pressure, the lure of the quick deal. (And this "option drop" was used at almost every resort I worked at. I had worked at several.)

If you ask most timeshare owners why they bought, they'll tell you it was because they were offered a great deal they couldn't refuse.

I lasted a little over a year. In the final days, I just couldn't face anybody, and being around some of those other timeshare salesmen caused me to need a shower afterwards.

Disney got into the timeshare business. Their weeks, of course cost a lot more. And they weren't deeded real estate because all of Disney property in Florida is located on the Reedy Creek District, a stretch of land that is almost a separate country from the state of Florida. Walt Disney entered into this agreement back in the late Seventies with the government of Florida. Pretty much Reedy Creek district could do whatever it wanted provided it maintained title to all the real estate on the property.

While you're shaking your head and wondering what in the name of Zeus's Butthole I just said, you might want to drive by those high rise deep pocket Disney hotels and resort on the property. NONE of them own the land. They are all leasing that land from Disney. Everything at Disney Village and Downtown Disney is leased. Virgin Records used to own a giant record store there back in the 90s. It did not own the land beneath. It was leasing the land.

There is a neighborhood called Celebration City, located in a nicer section of Kissimmee, close to I-4 and hwy 192. Their homes (two bedroom simple design with white picket fences) started at around $250,000 about 25 years ago, and that quarter mil would buy you a 100 year right to use.


Yes, I couldn't want to move out of that crowded hell hole of a town.
I bought because the maint. that year was about $800 for the four weeks...and that was every other year. I was told that resale for those units was going up...it wasn't. Their numbers were fictional sales. I was also told Embassy would get right of first refusal if I wanted to sell...and their sales numbers showed units that they said had been sold by owners back to Embassy. So by their version of events, an owner who had paid $6,000 for a week had sold it back to Embassy for $9,000 just three or four years later. Either they out and out lied or they had reacquired a few just to be able to put those numbers in the brochure.

By the time I actually joined a lawsuit against Diamond and put a restraining order on them to avoid foreclosure they had jacked up maint to about $3k every other year for my four weeks and had levied an $11,000 special assessment to peel the outer walls off of 11 buildings to remediate mold that they said was due to construction problems in sealing the outer and inner walls.....

They violated the restraining order and foreclosed on about 100 owners who were in on the lawsuit.
 

reason10

Governor
I bought because the maint. that year was about $800 for the four weeks...and that was every other year. I was told that resale for those units was going up...it wasn't. Their numbers were fictional sales. I was also told Embassy would get right of first refusal if I wanted to sell...and their sales numbers showed units that they said had been sold by owners back to Embassy. So by their version of events, an owner who had paid $6,000 for a week had sold it back to Embassy for $9,000 just three or four years later. Either they out and out lied or they had reacquired a few just to be able to put those numbers in the brochure.

By the time I actually joined a lawsuit against Diamond and put a restraining order on them to avoid foreclosure they had jacked up maint to about $3k every other year for my four weeks and had levied an $11,000 special assessment to peel the outer walls off of 11 buildings to remediate mold that they said was due to construction problems in sealing the outer and inner walls.....

They violated the restraining order and foreclosed on about 100 owners who were in on the lawsuit.
I wish I could say that was an isolated incident. Sadly, there are probably more outfits like that out there.
I'm sorry for two things: 1. Your rotten experience with that company, and 2. My having authored this thread and thus opening an old wound.
 

bdtex

Administrator
Staff member
The ads for "We'll get you out of your timeshare" don't tell you that they require an up front fee and that they never call you again after they get the fee. Why? It is impossible to get off site timeshare financing.
I've had a couple of clients who were Executors of estates where the deceased owned a timeshare and they had the problem you just described. Takes too much time and money to fly to another state to take care of that in person.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I wish I could say that was an isolated incident. Sadly, there are probably more outfits like that out there.
I'm sorry for two things: 1. Your rotten experience with that company, and 2. My having authored this thread and thus opening an old wound.
No problem...look at it as an opportunity to inform others to avoid TimeShares and Diamond in particular.
 

reason10

Governor
No problem...look at it as an opportunity to inform others to avoid TimeShares and Diamond in particular.
I'll agree with you whole heartedly on the subject of Diamond. And frankly, timeshare isn't a good concept any more these days. It's expensive and the most desireable areas are already sold out.
 

Schrodinger's Platypus

Radical Constitutional Extremist
I've been hearing this ad on talk radio quite a bit. This subject may come closer to political because a "get you out of your timeshare" company bought time on Sean Hannity's radio show.

Just curious if anyone here knows.

What is a timeshare? What is the concept?

In the state of Florida, a special license is needed to sell timeshare. What kind of license is it?

Are people STUCK in their timeshares? If so, why?


(This will be fun for me to watch because I know all the answers. In the late 80s I used to sell timeshare in Florida.)

I wonder if anyone knows the answer.
We had one a long time ago in the 80s. You “buy” some number of weeks out of the year. For those weeks you can vacation in your condo. We had a week in the summer and one in the winter at a ski resort. The lure is you pay a reduced price for rent and maintenance. . .but more than the pro-rated number of weeks you buy. The idea is you’re only going to use your condo X number of weeks a year so why pay all that money for the time you’re not there? Makes sense on paper. And other people who bought other weeks “share” your condo and pay for their weeks as well. If you’re the landlord and you have all your weeks booked you can make an absolute killing while providing good condos at reduced rates. If you don’t want to go to your condo for those weeks but instead want to go to Mazatlan or Hawaii you can if you can find a condo franchise there in the same system as yours. Sounds great right?

The problem with us is that we could seldom go in the winter because we the kids couldn’t take a week off from school (ain’t gonna happen with my folks) and getting all the homework ahead of time was problematic (tough choice between skiing and homework). And in the summertime we had summer jobs so we couldn’t take off time for that.

You can trade your week(s) but had to find somebody willing to trade with you. Problematic too.

And so you get stuck paying for a condo that you might not use. . .at all! Time to sell. We got out after only a few years when the idea was still new. By now, I think everybody is wise to the game and nobody wants to buy your time share condo for the reasons above. Now, if you’re in one and want to get out of the contract you really are stuck!

That’s the way it was for us in the 80s. I’m sure things have changed by now. Probably not for the better.

(Yeah. Just read all your posts above. Sounds about right.)
 
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reason10

Governor
We had one a long time ago in the 80s. You “buy” some number of weeks out of the year. For those weeks you can vacation in your condo. We had a week in the summer and one in the winter at a ski resort. The lure is you pay a reduced price for rent and maintenance. . .but more than the pro-rated number of weeks you buy. The idea is you’re only going to use your condo X number of weeks a year so why pay all that money for the time you’re not there? Makes sense on paper. And other people who bought other weeks “share” your condo and pay for their weeks as well. If you’re the landlord and you have all your weeks booked you can make an absolute killing while providing good condos at reduced rates. If you don’t want to go to your condo for those weeks but instead want to go to Mazatlan or Hawaii you can if you can find a condo franchise there in the same system as yours. Sounds great right?

The problem with us is that we could seldom go in the winter because we the kids couldn’t take a week off from school (ain’t gonna happen with my folks) and getting all the homework ahead of time was problematic (tough choice between skiing and homework). And in the summertime we had summer jobs so we couldn’t take off time for that.

You can trade your week(s) but had to find somebody willing to trade with you. Problematic too.

And so you get stuck paying for a condo that you might not use. . .at all! Time to sell. We got out after only a few years when the idea was still new. By now, I think everybody is wise to the game and nobody wants to buy your time share condo for the reasons above. Now, if you’re in one and want to get out of the contract you really are stuck!

That’s the way it was for us in the 80s. I’m sure things have changed by now. Probably not for the better.

(Yeah. Just read all your posts above. Sounds about right.)
Definitely not for the better. The timeshare industry started out as a vacation club scam. RCI was originally a ripoff that actually wound up working. Everyone who works in the timeshare industry understands that.

I wouldn't recommend making a career of out of timeshare sales, especially with the negative PR it has been getting through these "get you out of your timeshare" hacks.
 
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