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Good News! State Department IG to probe Biden admin's chaotic Afghanistan withdrawal

Zam-Zam

Senator
Do you think Trump should have withdrawn 10,000 troops in 2020 or agreed to force the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban POWs?

The agreement he signed also stopped all US air support for the Afghan army, but allowed the Taliban to continue to attack the army and in fact kill 3,000 Afghan soldiers.

I think that left BIden with far fewer options.
I think you believe everything is Trump's fault and nothing is Biden's fault.

I think you will always think that, and the facts, whatever they may be, will have no bearing on that.

I think I am content to let the probe go forward and will evaluate the information as it comes out.

I think you've already made up your mind.

That's what I think. Thanks for asking.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I think you believe everything is Trump's fault and nothing is Biden's fault.

I think you will always think that, and the facts, whatever they may be, will have no bearing on that.

I think I am content to let the probe go forward and will evaluate the information as it comes out.

I think you've already made up your mind.

That's what I think. Thanks for asking.
Do you think Trump should have withdrawn 10,000 troops in 2020 or agreed to force the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban POWs?

I do not.

The agreement he signed also stopped all US air support for the Afghan army, but allowed the Taliban to continue to attack the army and in fact kill 3,000 Afghan soldiers. Do you think that might have led to the swift collapse of the Afghan army in April/May 2021?

Do you think Trump's actions left Biden with far fewer options. I do.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Do you think Trump should have withdrawn 10,000 troops in 2020 or agreed to force the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban POWs?

I do not.

The agreement he signed also stopped all US air support for the Afghan army, but allowed the Taliban to continue to attack the army and in fact kill 3,000 Afghan soldiers. Do you think that might have led to the swift collapse of the Afghan army in April/May 2021?

Do you think Trump's actions left Biden with far fewer options. I do.

I think you just proved my point for me.

Thanks again.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
When citizens enlist we knew it may cost us our lives.............

You claim you took the Oath and should know that!
You just can't seem to make up your mind...remember when you posted this...

NO military members died in Afghan in 2020
13 were killed under Biden in 2021
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I think you just proved my point for me.

Thanks again.
Why is that too difficult a question for you to answer?

You wrote this...
I think you believe everything is Trump's fault and nothing is Biden's fault.

I think you believe nothing is Trump's fault and that the mess in Afghanistan is all Joe's fault....
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Why is that too difficult a question for you to answer?

You wrote this...
I think you believe everything is Trump's fault and nothing is Biden's fault.

I think you believe nothing is Trump's fault and that the mess in Afghanistan is all Joe's fault....
I think you are wrong about that - I'm not going to carry water for any politician, including Trump. That's why I'm content to wait and see what the probe reveals, if anything.

You, of course, need not wait - Your mind is made up. You do carry water for your favorite politicians.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I don't know how many casualties by the Taliban occurred during the withdrawal?

I thought the Afghan army ran away?
I was suggesting the American casualties could well have resulted if we'd attempted to surge troops into Kabul to hold the city until all Americans and our Afghan allies had been evacuated. If the Taliban had chosen to make it a siege they could have surrounded the city and killed both our troops and civilians using artillery from outside the city.

You have to evaluate worst case.

The Taliban got a surrender agreement from Trump in Feb 2020. It included a ceasefire that Trump honored, but the Taliban did not. The Afghan army collapsed in the spring of 2021. Well after Trump had withdrawn 10,000 troops and ceased air support for the army.
The Taliban appear to have conducted a very effective campaign to persuade local officials and commanders that they were on their own. If they agreed to cooperate then they were safe...if not they were killed. As the withdrawal got closer the army surrendered, defected or ran away.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I think you are wrong about that - I'm not going to carry water for any politician, including Trump. That's why I'm content to wait and see what the probe reveals, if anything.

You, of course, need not wait - Your mind is made up. You do carry water for your favorite politicians.
Hilarious....It is easy to find your posts about Trump's impeachment or the Mueller investigation in which you found it far easier to make up your mind without knowing the results of any investigation.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Hilarious....It is easy to find your posts about Trump's impeachment or the Mueller investigation in which you found it far easier to make up your mind without knowing the results of any investigation.
It seems like you are conceding my point that your mind is made up.

So now you change the subject.

That is hilarious.

Feel free to review any post of mine that you wish.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
I think you believe everything is Trump's fault and nothing is Biden's fault.

I think you will always think that, and the facts, whatever they may be, will have no bearing on that.

I think I am content to let the probe go forward and will evaluate the information as it comes out.

I think you've already made up your mind.

That's what I think. Thanks for asking.
Such pathetic dodging.

So typical of wingers.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
It seems like you are conceding my point that your mind is made up.

So now you change the subject.

That is hilarious.

Feel free to review any post of mine that you wish.
My post is very specific about things Trump did in 2020 that contributed, in my opinion, to a surprise collapse in Afghanistan. You claim that means I find Biden blameless and Trump is at fault and that you will happily wait for the investigation.

As has been posted already, the investigation is about the state department visa program...not the allocation of military resources to hold on to Kabul or to better organize the evacuation.

Your post about not carrying water is what I answered by bringing up other threads where you weren't so patient.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
I was suggesting the American casualties could well have resulted if we'd attempted to surge troops into Kabul to hold the city until all Americans and our Afghan allies had been evacuated. If the Taliban had chosen to make it a siege they could have surrounded the city and killed both our troops and civilians using artillery from outside the city.

You have to evaluate worst case.

The Taliban got a surrender agreement from Trump in Feb 2020. It included a ceasefire that Trump honored, but the Taliban did not. The Afghan army collapsed in the spring of 2021. Well after Trump had withdrawn 10,000 troops and ceased air support for the army.
The Taliban appear to have conducted a very effective campaign to persuade local officials and commanders that they were on their own. If they agreed to cooperate then they were safe...if not they were killed. As the withdrawal got closer the army surrendered, defected or ran away.

Did the Taliban honor it's ceasefire immediately surrounding Kabul? How many soldiers were killed in armed conflict with the Taliban during the exit?

Are we saying there was no thing whatsoever that the US could do to ease that Exodus, keep people from clinging to plane wheels....nothing??
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Did the Taliban honor it's ceasefire immediately surrounding Kabul? How many soldiers were killed in armed conflict with the Taliban during the exit?

Are we saying there was no thing whatsoever that the US could do to ease that Exodus, keep people from clinging to plane wheels....nothing??
The Taliban killed 3,000 Afghan troops in 2020. They did not initiate fighting with US troops. The US also did not provide any air support to the afghan army.

The options available, after the rapid collapse of the Afghan army and government were pretty limited.

1. Rush thousands of US troops to secure Kabul. The downside would well have been a renewal of combat operations against the Taliban.

2. ?
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
My post is very specific about things Trump did in 2020 that contributed, in my opinion, to a surprise collapse in Afghanistan. You claim that means I find Biden blameless and Trump is at fault and that you will happily wait for the investigation.

As has been posted already, the investigation is about the state department visa program...not the allocation of military resources to hold on to Kabul or to better organize the evacuation.

Your post about not carrying water is what I answered by bringing up other threads where you weren't so patient.

You did what I said you would do.

To the shock of absolutely no one.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
The Taliban killed 3,000 Afghan troops in 2020. They did not initiate fighting with US troops. The US also did not provide any air support to the afghan army.

The options available, after the rapid collapse of the Afghan army and government were pretty limited.

1. Rush thousands of US troops to secure Kabul. The downside would well have been a renewal of combat operations against the Taliban.

2. ?

Yes. They did not initiate fighting with US troops

Why would they need to rush thousands? There was an agreement. Right?

Perhaps clearing a corridor and effecting an orderly exit was all that was needed
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Yes. They did not initiate fighting with US troops

Why would they need to rush thousands? There was an agreement. Right?

Perhaps clearing a corridor and effecting an orderly exit was all that was needed
a corridor through Taliban occupied Kabul?
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
a corridor through Taliban occupied Kabul?
did we have an agreement with the Taliban? (you know, the one you assert was ironclad and inalterable)?

was the Taliban engaging US troops during the Exit? (i think we already established, no)/?

does it stand to reason that we could have set some measure of orderly transition out with the taliban?? (this is where you dissemble and fail to provide any answer because of fealty to party....)
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
did we have an agreement with the Taliban? (you know, the one you assert was ironclad and inalterable)?

was the Taliban engaging US troops during the Exit? (i think we already established, no)/?

does it stand to reason that we could have set some measure of orderly transition out with the taliban?? (this is where you dissemble and fail to provide any answer because of fealty to party....)
We had an agreement with the Taliban which required we withdraw all troops by May 1st 2021. I don't recall writing a post with "ironclad" or "inalterable" in it.

The "agreement" or more accurately the "Surrender" signed by Trump in February did not involve the Afghan government in the negotiations and did not consider the Afghan army in the ceasefire. Would you agree that Trump threw our allies under the bus?

Would you also agree that Trump did nothing to prepare for an evacuation of US citizens, contractors or Afghan allies?

I'm not sure what it has to do with anything when you mention the Taliban "engaging" US troops.

Does it stand to reason we could have what? Did you forget the threats from the Taliban when Biden announced we would not be out by Trump's deadline?

I've posted what I thought Biden's options were...and none were all that great. If on his first day in office he had ordered between 20k and 50k troops back into the country and once on their way had dumped Trump's treaty we might not have lost to country to the Taliban....but we would have renewed our longest war for another decade.

Would you agree?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
"But, but, but...TRUMP!"

:D
I guess Trump wasn't president in 2020.

and Trump didn't sign a surrender agreement?

and Trump didn't pull out 10,000 US troops, leaving 2,500 in country....not enough to secure both Kabul airport and Bagram...a barely enough to secure Kabul airport.

Trump didn't throw the Kabul government and the Afghan army under the bus?
 
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