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18 dead in elementary school shooting in Tx.

condorkristy

Mostly Liberal
Maybe we could have armed guards at all schools, funded by gun nuts.

You good with that?
I can't imagine you're serious about that but I would be.

Grants to districts to hire security officers (ex LEO, ex Military, certified volunteers) would be a great start. We're not going to get rid of guns. We don't have the ability to be honest in this nation about just how kookoo for cocoa puffs the amendment is--the 2nd Amendment has been adopted by precisely zero other nations that have formed since it was written--that should tell us all something about whether it's a good idea or not--a lot of the same nations that have adopted large parts of our systems of justice and economic systems. So the only other alternative is to protect what is vital and vulnerable from folks with guns.
 

trapdoor

Governor
I think we should wait to know more about this Crime. Did he obtain his weapons legally? Would a red flag law have prevented it? How could this have been prevented?

The killer in Buffalo should have been subject to the Red Flag law there, but the person doing the psych eval didn't seem him as a threat. He was wrong.
Therein lies the rub. I as a gun owner don't want to be considered a criminal-before-the-fact -- but a disgruntled ex could say I'm unstable and al of a sudden a red-flag law could pull me in. Whether or not I'm actually unstable is a judgment call, and even professionals get it wrong sometimes as happened in Buffalo.

I'm in Germany and I didn't hear of the Texas tragedy until I first woke up about two hours ago -- I don't have much in the way of detail. But the solution isn't to go after everyone who owns a semiautomatic rifle as though we were all insane.

And those of us who support gun ownership, and the people who see the mass shooting, see two different tragedies. Gun owners see the Buffalo shooting and know that the firearm was purchased legally in a state with all of the restrictions that are being called for nationwide, including a red-flag law and say, "See, the gun laws don't work."
People who don't support gun ownership see the same event and say, "See, we need stricter gun laws."
As a gun owner, I'd be willing to compromise on background checks on secondary sales, beefed up background checks, and red-flag laws, but my support of those is conditional -- any new requirement has to come with a sunset clause or milestones to measure its effectiveness. If it's ineffective, there's no point in having it. And no calling for more such laws until the sunset period is achieved, because that would both affect the measurement and because we want some sort of line in the sand.
But compromise is never offered, "You have something we don't want you to have and we're going to take it" is not a compromise.
 

EatTheRich

President
I say again, a lot of people want to focus on school shootings because they are so horrifying. But most of the damage from guns comes from suicides and gang violence (and war of course). If we want to stop gun carnage, as part of a general program to reduce all violence and other social ills, it makes more sense to focus on those.
 

EatTheRich

President
Look...the store in Buffalo had an armed security guard. He's dead.

What is your suggestion? Turn schools, churches and synagogues into armed camps? Barbed wire and guard towers at every corner?
I think if we do want to make policy for these rare mass shooting events, we should focus on increasing the awareness and education of the general public. Cover vs. concealment, evasive running, psychology, escape routes, the possibility of taking the offensive preferably with surprise, melee scenarios using improvised weapons, gun training for those willing and able to make responsible sentries.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Therein lies the rub. I as a gun owner don't want to be considered a criminal-before-the-fact -- but a disgruntled ex could say I'm unstable and al of a sudden a red-flag law could pull me in. Whether or not I'm actually unstable is a judgment call, and even professionals get it wrong sometimes as happened in Buffalo.

I'm in Germany and I didn't hear of the Texas tragedy until I first woke up about two hours ago -- I don't have much in the way of detail. But the solution isn't to go after everyone who owns a semiautomatic rifle as though we were all insane.

And those of us who support gun ownership, and the people who see the mass shooting, see two different tragedies. Gun owners see the Buffalo shooting and know that the firearm was purchased legally in a state with all of the restrictions that are being called for nationwide, including a red-flag law and say, "See, the gun laws don't work."
People who don't support gun ownership see the same event and say, "See, we need stricter gun laws."
As a gun owner, I'd be willing to compromise on background checks on secondary sales, beefed up background checks, and red-flag laws, but my support of those is conditional -- any new requirement has to come with a sunset clause or milestones to measure its effectiveness. If it's ineffective, there's no point in having it. And no calling for more such laws until the sunset period is achieved, because that would both affect the measurement and because we want some sort of line in the sand.
But compromise is never offered, "You have something we don't want you to have and we're going to take it" is not a compromise.
The guy in Buffalo should have triggered the red flag law. I'd love to hear why someone talked to him at the psych hospital and didn't see a threat.

I don't know enough about the shooter in Texas. Seems he bought the guns a few days ago...
 

protectionist

Governor
After a gun owner uses his gun for its intended purpose.


Neither of these negligent link articles mention if this school is a "gun-free-zone" ( I'll bet a thousand dollars it is).

Neither of them mention if any of the teachers were armed (probably not judging by the number of victims)

Mass murder is not the intended purpose of a gun. I own 2 guns. The intended purpose for both is SELF-DEFENSE. I carry my .380 pistol everywhere I go outside of my residence. If school employees had been doing that, the people who died would be alive right now.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
I can't imagine you're serious about that but I would be.

Grants to districts to hire security officers (ex LEO, ex Military, certified volunteers) would be a great start. We're not going to get rid of guns. We don't have the ability to be honest in this nation about just how kookoo for cocoa puffs the amendment is--the 2nd Amendment has been adopted by precisely zero other nations that have formed since it was written--that should tell us all something about whether it's a good idea or not--a lot of the same nations that have adopted large parts of our systems of justice and economic systems. So the only other alternative is to protect what is vital and vulnerable from folks with guns.
First, the Second Amendment has been grotesquely distorted by right wingers, especially winger SCOTUS justices. They “rewrote” it, carving out the “well regulated militia” language like it’s meaningless in order to meet their objectives.

But yes, I am serious. To those gun nuts who say the “solution” is armed guards, I say put up or shut up. Gun nuts can pay for that. Of course, they refuse. The very essence of being a winger is inflicting misery on others and then refusing to take responsibility for it.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
Neither of these negligent link articles mention if this school is a "gun-free-zone" ( I'll bet a thousand dollars it is).

Neither of them mention if any of the teachers were armed (probably not judging by the number of victims)

Mass murder is not the intended purpose of a gun. I own 2 guns. The intended purpose for both is SELF-DEFENSE. I carry my .380 pistol everywhere I go outside of my residence. If school employees had been doing that, the people who died would be alive right now.
There isn’t any land in the US that is “gun free.” Wake up to reality.
 

protectionist

Governor
Look...the store in Buffalo had an armed security guard. He's dead.

What is your suggestion? Turn schools, churches and synagogues into armed camps? Barbed wire and guard towers at every corner?
Having a school be an "armed camp" (whatever that means), sounds a lot better than having it been unarmed, undefended, vulnerable, unsafe.

My "suggestion" is to have every teach or other staff member who's qualified, and wants to carry a pistol to carry one at all times in the school. We have thousands of military people armed, and ready to go overseas to shoot at enemies, but we allow domestic enemies to shoot us right here ? bad.bad.
 
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protectionist

Governor
But yes, I am serious. To those gun nuts who say the “solution” is armed guards, I say put up or shut up. Gun nuts can pay for that. Of course, they refuse. The very essence of being a winger is inflicting misery on others and then refusing to take responsibility for it.
Armed teachers ARE armed guards, and they are already being paid. We need to decide if they are to be helpful armed guards, or sitting ducks.
 

protectionist

Governor
Everybody is a law-abiding gun owner, right up until the time they decide not to be one.

Going after individuals who might be a threat will not change that equation.
FALSE! Some mass shooters have extensive criminal records deliberately covered up, before they commit mass shootings (ex Nicholas Cruz in the Parkland Massacre).
 
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