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The need to destroy Russia is about a rather simple globalist-communist plan.

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
The agreement at the time of Ukraine's surrender of the nuclear weapons there is a pretty strong case that it was a shitty agreement that had no real teeth. It did not offer any military commitment.

The Role Of 1994 Nuclear Agreement In Ukraine's Current State : NPR

Do you actually think the EU was jerking Ukraine around with the Minsk attempts to get a ceasefire? I think that was an example of how reliable Putin is in any negotiation.
depends on how you read it.. some flim flaam about more autonomy..blah blah.. fed right in to what we see today...Russia thinks its theirs. its not.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Who am I going to believe, you, or my lying eyes? Because it looks to me like we're purposefully dragging the war out to weaken Putin. Good move by America, right? After all, it's only Ukrainians dying for the cause, am I right?
What is it you think you are seeing? You interpret the plan to send additional anti-aircraft weapons as dragging the war out. I see Putin's call up of 300,000 men to fight in Ukraine as an escalation. His threats to use nuclear weapons against the countries supplying weapons to Ukraine is hardly an attempt to come to terms with Ukraine.

So the bottom line is that you pretend to see something that isn't there. Planning for the future ability to defend itself is not dragging the war out.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
What is it you think you are seeing? You interpret the plan to send additional anti-aircraft weapons as dragging the war out. I see Putin's call up of 300,000 men to fight in Ukraine as an escalation. His threats to use nuclear weapons against the countries supplying weapons to Ukraine is hardly an attempt to come to terms with Ukraine.

So the bottom line is that you pretend to see something that isn't there. Planning for the future ability to defend itself is not dragging the war out.
You know what the only thing that isn't dragging it out is? Ending it! Either militarily or diplomatically. What I am "seeing" is us doing neither...
 

EatTheRich

President
Who am I going to believe, you, or my lying eyes? Because it looks to me like we're purposefully dragging the war out to weaken Putin. Good move by America, right? After all, it's only Ukrainians dying for the cause, am I right?
So the answer to that is to double and redouble the supply of weapons.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Yes, because nothing says "eat the rich" like the poorest people in Europe dying to serve America's (elite) neocon objectives.
Er, what? American neocon objectives persuaded Putin to invade Ukraine? Sounds unlikely....or are you saying it is a neocon objective to help the Ukrainians push Russian invasion forces out of Ukraine?

By the way...Moldova is the poorest country in Europe, with an average yearly income of $2,289.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Er, what? American neocon objectives persuaded Putin to invade Ukraine? Sounds unlikely....or are you saying it is a neocon objective to help the Ukrainians push Russian invasion forces out of Ukraine?

By the way...Moldova is the poorest country in Europe, with an average yearly income of $2,289.
I have been saying (if you had paid attention you'd know) that the war a) didn't need to be fought in the first place and b) had a good chance of being ended diplomatically shortly after it started until the US (and Great Britain) intervened to make Ukraine keep fighting because the neocons in control of US politics decided an extended war served their purposes.

1664455076356.png
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Yes, because nothing says "eat the rich" like the poorest people in Europe dying to serve America's (elite) neocon objectives.
Er, what? American neocon objectives persuaded Putin to invade Ukraine? Sounds unlikely....or are you saying it is a neocon objective to help the Ukrainians push Russian invasion forces out of Ukraine?

By the way...Moldova is the poorest country in Europe, with an average yearly income of $2,289.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I have been saying (if you had paid attention you'd know) that the war a) didn't need to be fought in the first place and b) had a good chance of being ended diplomatically shortly after it started until the US (and Great Britain) intervened to make Ukraine keep fighting because the neocons in control of US politics decided an extended war served their purposes.

View attachment 72581
If you weren't so busy re-writing history you would remember that in the first place Putin claimed he wasn't going to invade and Zelensky asked the US to tone down the accusations that Putin was lying. So how could you negotiate with a liar to prevent something he says he wasn't going to do?

Secondly, Putin ordered the invasion. Yes, he didn't need to. He thought he was going to conquer Ukraine and was not about to withdraw. How would you think it could have ended diplomatically? Surrender would have been Ukraine's only option without our help.

We did not "make" Ukraine keep fighting. We provided the weapons Zelensky requested. Ukrainians could have refused to fight. Clearly, they are more motivated than the invading Russians are.

The war can end when Putin decides he's had enough.
 

EatTheRich

President
Does @PhilFish know that you think Ukraine is fighting for the cause of communism?
That’s not my position. Ukraine’s capitalist rulers are fighting for Ukrainian capitalism. But by fighting Russian capitalism they are striking at a bigger obstacle to the ultimate victory of communism. Hence workers standing with the Ukrainian fight.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
That’s not my position. Ukraine’s capitalist rulers are fighting for Ukrainian capitalism. But by fighting Russian capitalism they are striking at a bigger obstacle to the ultimate victory of communism. Hence workers standing with the Ukrainian fight.
The war in Ukraine is not a conflict between capitalism and socialism or communism.

The people of Ukraine were victims of Russian repression...communism, imperialism...whatever "ism" you want to blame. Russia's current government is a kleptocracy that came from the destruction of the USSR and the easy pickings the oligarchs saw in the privatization of government industries.

It is hard to judge what Putin thinks he'll gain from the conquest of Ukraine. His legacy of rebuilding the Russian empire? Maybe. Potential theft on a grand scale of Ukrainian agriculture and industry? Highly likely.
 

EatTheRich

President
The war in Ukraine is not a conflict between capitalism and socialism or communism.

The people of Ukraine were victims of Russian repression...communism, imperialism...whatever "ism" you want to blame. Russia's current government is a kleptocracy that came from the destruction of the USSR and the easy pickings the oligarchs saw in the privatization of government industries.

It is hard to judge what Putin thinks he'll gain from the conquest of Ukraine. His legacy of rebuilding the Russian empire? Maybe. Potential theft on a grand scale of Ukrainian agriculture and industry? Highly likely.
All politics is class conflict. The primary conflict in Ukraine is between two rival capitalist classes. But the workers’ movement has always taken advantage of divisions among capitalists to advance its own interest.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
If you weren't so busy re-writing history you would remember that in the first place Putin claimed he wasn't going to invade and Zelensky asked the US to tone down the accusations that Putin was lying. So how could you negotiate with a liar to prevent something he says he wasn't going to do?

Secondly, Putin ordered the invasion. Yes, he didn't need to. He thought he was going to conquer Ukraine and was not about to withdraw. How would you think it could have ended diplomatically? Surrender would have been Ukraine's only option without our help.

We did not "make" Ukraine keep fighting. We provided the weapons Zelensky requested. Ukrainians could have refused to fight. Clearly, they are more motivated than the invading Russians are.

The war can end when Putin decides he's had enough.
The US told Zalensky Russia was going to invade, so did anyone from the Brandon administration reach out and ask what it would take for them to stand down? Um, no. If he had said self determining votes in the contested regions and assurance that Ukraine wouldn't become a member of NATO for at least 25 years, only an idiot would say, nah go ahead and invade.

A) We told Zalensky that any deal he made to end the war would not be recognized by the west.

B) Zalensky has also asked us to pre-emptively nuke Russia, should we do that too?

Maybe you haven't noticed but reports are that not only are the people in the west getting weary of the war, western armament stockpiles have been seriously depleted - that's what happens when only about 30% of the sh*t makes it to the front. How long do you think you can push this thing? I'm thinking by mid-winter Europe will be ready to abandon their commitments, and so, most likely, will we.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
The US told Zalensky Russia was going to invade, so did anyone from the Brandon administration reach out and ask what it would take for them to stand down? Um, no. If he had said self determining votes in the contested regions and assurance that Ukraine wouldn't become a member of NATO for at least 25 years, only an idiot would say, nah go ahead and invade.

A) We told Zalensky that any deal he made to end the war would not be recognized by the west.

B) Zalensky has also asked us to pre-emptively nuke Russia, should we do that too?

Maybe you haven't noticed but reports are that not only are the people in the west getting weary of the war, western armament stockpiles have been seriously depleted - that's what happens when only about 30% of the sh*t makes it to the front. How long do you think you can push this thing? I'm thinking by mid-winter Europe will be ready to abandon their commitments, and so, most likely, will we.
Just keep making shit up...

Got any credible source for this crap?
 
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