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I'm completely in favor of slavery reparations . . .

Spamature

President
I have a much simpler program. No one alive today was a slave -- hence no one alive today can receive reparations for the damages of slavery. They never experienced slavery.

No one alive today (in the U.S.) ever owned a slave; No one alive today is liable for the prior condition of enslavement of anyone alive today (see above).

The U.S. government should act immediately to honor each treaty in arrears with Native American tribes.

All others; descendents of Asian "coolies," ancestors of indentured servitude, etc., can either accept the benefits of being U.S. citizens or are freely offered the opportunity to return to the lands of their forebears at the expense of the U.S. government.
Let's say your grandfather is poisoned with toxic chemicals working for a company. He sues the company. He suffered a long illness that brought great hardship on the family. Not only that, but he dies before you are ever born. Your father continues the suit, but likewise meets his end before a judgment is handed down.

If the company is found to have been the cause of your grandfather's death and your father's suffering, none of which you had to endure. Are you entitled to the compensation your father and grandfather sought ? Or, does the company get to keep the settlement and move on as if it never happened, because its resistance to the truth outlasted the truth seekers ?
 

Spamature

President
Maybe the lesson is: better to be a seller of slaves, than a consumer? Future generations will absolve as "more moral"?
Possession is 9/10th of the law ?

Anyway, they were just prisoners. They weren't slaves until they had masters.
It still comes down to allowing people to be masters over those individuals under the law.
 

trapdoor

Governor
Let's say your grandfather is poisoned with toxic chemicals working for a company. He sues the company. He suffered a long illness that brought great hardship on the family. Not only that, but he dies before you are ever born. Your father continues the suit, but likewise meets his end before a judgment is handed down.

If the company is found to have been the cause of your grandfather's death and your father's suffering, none of which you had to endure. Are you entitled to the compensation your father and grandfather sought ? Or, does the company get to keep the settlement and move on as if it never happened, because its resistance to the truth outlasted the truth seekers ?
No.
 

trapdoor

Governor
No to which ?
Honestly, I missed that there were two questions, and I apologize for doing so.

". Are you entitled to the compensation your father and grandfather sought? No.

"Or, does the company get to keep the settlement and move on as if it never happened, because its resistance to the truth outlasted the truth seekers ? " Maybe. Under these circumstances the government may bring charges and penalties for violations of work standards -- but compensation to the heirs of the harmed party isn't going to happen, especially when they're a generation removed from the harm.

In real life my ancestor (I think he's a "five-greats" grandfather) was a slave owner. He owned nine slaves according to the 1820 census. He's been dead since the 1830s. Every slave he owned was probably dead by the time of the Civil War. Why should my lving family be in anyway liable for an offense no one living committed, on victims who themselves are long dead?

If you're saying the U.S. government has some corporate fiduciary responsibility because it allowed the practice to continue for roughly 90 years, I will cite the 750,000 men, most of a generation, killed, and the concomitant military expense of ending the practice. Reparations from the government? The U.S. government gave at the office already.

Now I have a friend who used to participate in this forum under the screen name Degsme. He would say the reparations aren't for slavery, but for the ongoing practices of racism following slavery that persist in society to this day. My response to that is that the government itself is no longer allowed to be racist, and has been denied the practice both by the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act and numerous smaller pieces of legislation. Any remaining racism is practiced by individuals, and is hence the liability of and the responsibility of those individuals -- and some of it is a right belonging to those individuals. I expect you'll bridle somewhat at the last statement, but we have freedom of thought in America and racists are completely within their rights to be racists in thought and in deed so long as their deeds don't break any laws. They can participate in racist private clubs, make racist statements -- what they do in private in regard to race relations is their own lookout. It isn't the responsibility of government (or the greater society) to compensate anyone because of that.
 

Spamature

President
Honestly, I missed that there were two questions, and I apologize for doing so.

". Are you entitled to the compensation your father and grandfather sought? No.

"Or, does the company get to keep the settlement and move on as if it never happened, because its resistance to the truth outlasted the truth seekers ? " Maybe. Under these circumstances the government may bring charges and penalties for violations of work standards -- but compensation to the heirs of the harmed party isn't going to happen, especially when they're a generation removed from the harm.

In real life my ancestor (I think he's a "five-greats" grandfather) was a slave owner. He owned nine slaves according to the 1820 census. He's been dead since the 1830s. Every slave he owned was probably dead by the time of the Civil War. Why should my lving family be in anyway liable for an offense no one living committed, on victims who themselves are long dead?

If you're saying the U.S. government has some corporate fiduciary responsibility because it allowed the practice to continue for roughly 90 years, I will cite the 750,000 men, most of a generation, killed, and the concomitant military expense of ending the practice. Reparations from the government? The U.S. government gave at the office already.

Now I have a friend who used to participate in this forum under the screen name Degsme. He would say the reparations aren't for slavery, but for the ongoing practices of racism following slavery that persist in society to this day. My response to that is that the government itself is no longer allowed to be racist, and has been denied the practice both by the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act and numerous smaller pieces of legislation. Any remaining racism is practiced by individuals, and is hence the liability of and the responsibility of those individuals -- and some of it is a right belonging to those individuals. I expect you'll bridle somewhat at the last statement, but we have freedom of thought in America and racists are completely within their rights to be racists in thought and in deed so long as their deeds don't break any laws. They can participate in racist private clubs, make racist statements -- what they do in private in regard to race relations is their own lookout. It isn't the responsibility of government (or the greater society) to compensate anyone because of that.
I kind of wonder how something that would essentially be a wrongful death suit by its end shouldn't compensate heirs ?

Anyway, it's not you or your family that owes anything. They were law-abiding citizens. It's the fact that our govt let such an evil exist and pass on its harm that is at issue.

The latter and ongoing practices are another issue. This issue is about of stolen labor. A theft that deprive generations in one race while enriching other generations in another race. Why you think the theft should be ignored when the want left by the theft is so evident is a mystery to me.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
I kind of wonder how something that would essentially be a wrongful death suit by its end shouldn't compensate heirs ?

Anyway, it's not you or your family that owes anything. They were law-abiding citizens. It's the fact that our govt let such an evil exist and pass on its harm that is at issue.

The latter and ongoing practices are another issue. This issue is about of stolen labor. A theft that deprive generations in one race while enriching other generations in another race. Why you think the theft should be ignored when the want left by the theft is so evident is a mystery to me.
There were more Black Massa's than White Massa's
Educate thyself before ranting
 

Spamature

President
The largest number on your list is 287.

It is nothing compared to real large slaveholders


So you are absolutely wrong when you say that number of black slaveholders or the number of slaves they held are anywhere near the number of white slaveholders or the number of individuals they held in bondage.

But yes, the laws of America allowed blacks to keep blacks as slaves in perpetuity, as they did whites. Funny how you wingers now all of a sudden have a problem with holding govt accountable for taking freedom away in the most literal sense.

Why do I always smell the stench of utter hypocrisy roiling from the words of righties ?

I wonder why ?
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
The largest number on your list is 287.

It is nothing compared to real large slaveholders


So you are absolutely wrong when you say that number of black slaveholders or the number of slaves they held are anywhere near the number of white slaveholders or the number of individuals they held in bondage.

But yes, the laws of America allowed blacks to keep blacks as slaves in perpetuity, as they did whites. Funny how you wingers now all of a sudden have a problem with holding govt accountable for taking freedom away in the most literal sense.

Why do I always smell the stench of utter hypocrisy roiling from the words of righties ?

I wonder why ?
Got a problem with Slaves, send your whines to the African KINGS that sold them and the Slave traders in Libya, the Obama's

May be because you live in dem slums where the smell is at in LA
Where did I post I now have the problem you spew?

I nor my family ever owned slaves, take a bath to wash the smell you smell away
 

Spamature

President
Got a problem with Slaves, send your whines to the African KINGS that sold them and the Slave traders in Libya, the Obama's

May be because you live in dem slums where the smell is at in LA
Where did I post I now have the problem you spew?

I nor my family ever owned slaves, take a bath to wash the smell you smell away
Like I said, they were prisoners of war until they were brought here and made slaves under the laws of this nation. Maybe you didn't own slaves and were owned instead. Maybe even by one of those black slaveholder you boast of.
If that happened, it was probably less shameful than the way you were owned by Trump for the last 6 yrs.

Maybe you shouldn't suppose where I live. I sure as hell don't want to live in North Cackalacky. I have seen how your biggest celebrities live down there.
Edneyville, NC - Pose with the Original Carolina Hillbilly (Gone)
No, thanks !

Are you telling me the stench of your hypocrisy rubs off on others ?
Maybe your ilk need to be dipped like the sheep you sleep with.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Like I said, they were prisoners of war until they were brought here and made slaves under the laws of this nation. Maybe you didn't own slaves and were owned instead. Maybe even by one of those black slaveholder you boast of.
If that happened, it was probably less shameful than the way you were owned by Trump for the last 6 yrs.

Maybe you shouldn't suppose where I live. I sure as hell don't want to live in North Cackalacky. I have seen how your biggest celebrities live down there.
View attachment 73293
No, thanks !

Are you telling me the stench of your hypocrisy rubs off on others ?
Maybe your ilk need to be dipped like the sheep you sleep with.
Much nicer than LA projects
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Honestly, I missed that there were two questions, and I apologize for doing so.

". Are you entitled to the compensation your father and grandfather sought? No.

"Or, does the company get to keep the settlement and move on as if it never happened, because its resistance to the truth outlasted the truth seekers ? " Maybe. Under these circumstances the government may bring charges and penalties for violations of work standards -- but compensation to the heirs of the harmed party isn't going to happen, especially when they're a generation removed from the harm.

In real life my ancestor (I think he's a "five-greats" grandfather) was a slave owner. He owned nine slaves according to the 1820 census. He's been dead since the 1830s. Every slave he owned was probably dead by the time of the Civil War. Why should my lving family be in anyway liable for an offense no one living committed, on victims who themselves are long dead?

If you're saying the U.S. government has some corporate fiduciary responsibility because it allowed the practice to continue for roughly 90 years, I will cite the 750,000 men, most of a generation, killed, and the concomitant military expense of ending the practice. Reparations from the government? The U.S. government gave at the office already.

Now I have a friend who used to participate in this forum under the screen name Degsme. He would say the reparations aren't for slavery, but for the ongoing practices of racism following slavery that persist in society to this day. My response to that is that the government itself is no longer allowed to be racist, and has been denied the practice both by the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act and numerous smaller pieces of legislation. Any remaining racism is practiced by individuals, and is hence the liability of and the responsibility of those individuals -- and some of it is a right belonging to those individuals. I expect you'll bridle somewhat at the last statement, but we have freedom of thought in America and racists are completely within their rights to be racists in thought and in deed so long as their deeds don't break any laws. They can participate in racist private clubs, make racist statements -- what they do in private in regard to race relations is their own lookout. It isn't the responsibility of government (or the greater society) to compensate anyone because of that.
If an organization can be shown to have perpetuated racism, file suit against them. The government of the United States has certainly done much to eliminate racism in any federal practices. There may well be grounds to sue some individual states.

I agree with you that there are no living former slaves and no living former slave owners.
 

trapdoor

Governor
I kind of wonder how something that would essentially be a wrongful death suit by its end shouldn't compensate heirs ?

Anyway, it's not you or your family that owes anything. They were law-abiding citizens. It's the fact that our govt let such an evil exist and pass on its harm that is at issue.

The latter and ongoing practices are another issue. This issue is about of stolen labor. A theft that deprive generations in one race while enriching other generations in another race. Why you think the theft should be ignored when the want left by the theft is so evident is a mystery to me.
But as I said elsewhere the government also spent billions (in today's money possibly trillions) and the lives of most of a generation of young men, erasing the practice. The government already paid up.
 

EvMetro

Mayor
View attachment 73228

Levar Burton was paid approx $20Kfor his role as Kunta Kinte in the mini series "Roots".
He went on to earn much more as a lead character in Star Trek.
HIs net worth is estimated at $8 million, not including his mansion in Sherman Oaks, CA.
Levar Burton would be eligible for "slavery reparations" under California's proposed plan.

I'm completely in favor of slavery reparations . . .

But the current approach is untenable. Will 50 states have 50 different standards for qualification, and different payout formulas? California seems to be in the forefront of this issue – even though they were always a free state, and never had slavery. What's to stop black Americans from moving to California by the millions to get “their share”? The same sort of internal migration that is happening into legalized pot states to camp on sidewalks, collect welfare benefits, etc?

Reparations is an issue that needs guardrails around it – a national standard. I don't want some future supreme court case (“Ho v. Quaid”?) muddying the waters with a razor thin majority decision. One which declares some state programs legal, other illegal, and still others subject to 25 years of future litigation, as politicians hope for a “rebalancing” of the justices between political parties.

So . . in the interest of helping our great nation arrive at an equitable solution which applies to ALL states, here goes my list of suggestions
  1. You cannnot collect slavery reparations if you moved here after the civil war. Period. Hard stop. Your ancestors were never slaves. And don't hurry to get your nieces and cousins over before the payout. Limited to ACTUAL descendants of slaves, not posers.
  2. You cannot collect slavery reparations if you are in jail for a capital offense like murder. Or are a drug kingpin. Or have a net worth of millions because you're a big time rapper, Neo Nazi sneaker endorser, sports superstar, famous actor, etc. Back of the bus for you guys.
  3. If you're behind on child support, your reparations check goes FIRST to your baby momma and her struggling kids. If there's any money left over, you can laugh all the way to the bank, homie . ..
  4. A special tax – either one time, or ongoing – must be approved by congress to pay for slavery reparations. We are so NOT adding trillions more to the national debt because of this. Each american family already owes $300,000 in accululated federal debt– this is why we're all living paycheck to paycheck. And no cutting federal funding for things like public schools, medical care, veterans benefits, etc. to cover reparations. These are important programs too.
  5. The new tax – if and when it is implemented – is only applicable to you if your white ancestors arrived BEFORE the civil war. If they were refugees from world war 1, world war 2, korea, vietnam, etc … you can put a big fat zero in this line item on your tax return.
  6. Acceptance of the reparations payment, and/or depositing the check, releases all federal, county, and municipal governments from future lalitigation and liability over slavery. It is not an admission of guilt – reparations are a good faith effort to redress grievous mistakes made by a bunch of people who died hundreds of years ago.
  7. Chinese “coolie” labor, used to build parts of the transcontinental railroad, is not covered by this program
  8. Whites who were brought to America under similar contract worker programs during colonial times are also excluded from collecting reparations – nannies; farmhands; lumberjacks; miners; shipwrights; stonemasons – these men (and women) were paid for their work, and in many cases got free land when their contracts were up. Some even went on to own slaves . .
  9. Current H1B work visa holders are not eligible under this program. You may, in fact, be getting paid “below average wages” compared to native born programmers, engineers, and doctors . . .but you went into this with your eyes open. Look before you leap. You are NOT a slave, you're simply an exploited worker. And less exploited than uber drivers, Starbucks baristas, and amazon “pickers”.
Native Americans – Sorry, but I don't have a good answer for you. Most of YOUR ancestors stole their ancestral hunting grounds from other, more peaceful tribes, and kidnapped their women, and tortured their men to death. You should be ashamed. Continue to litigate, if you think you can make a case. We will watch your progress with “great interest”, as emperor Palpatine put it in that Star Wars prequel.

Are we good then? Still want to proceed? Okay – I see a hand up in the back. Yes – Rhode Island – what is your question? Okay, I heard that – this week one of your Latinx politicians proposed slavery reparations, even though you were among the most northern and free-est liberal states among the 13 colonies. WTF are you thinking? You even proposed payouts to white Rhode Island residents. Explain to me – and to America – why this isn't just some crazy stunt to swing votes in an election. I'm waiting . ..
I'm for reparations, but only under one condition. A one time lump sum of $250,000 in exchange for signing a quit claim on any future government aid. No future unemployment, no protected class, no food stamps, no welfare, no race card, no section 8 housing.
 

trapdoor

Governor
I kind of wonder how something that would essentially be a wrongful death suit by its end shouldn't compensate heirs ?

Anyway, it's not you or your family that owes anything. They were law-abiding citizens. It's the fact that our govt let such an evil exist and pass on its harm that is at issue.

The latter and ongoing practices are another issue. This issue is about of stolen labor. A theft that deprive generations in one race while enriching other generations in another race. Why you think the theft should be ignored when the want left by the theft is so evident is a mystery to me.
OK, let's say we're all in favor of reparations here -- who receives them and who pays them?

I have a direct ancestor who owned slaves, so I presume I'm a "payee" not a recipient. But I have maternal relatives who didn't arrive in the U.S. until the 1880s. Would they still be liable. If your grandmother and grandfather are both of African descent, but moved to the U.S. in 1965, are they eligible?

Basically my feeling is that at a governmental level, the U.S. atoned for the sin of slavery via the blood and gold lost in pursuing the Civil War. As individuals we're 150 years after the crime was committed -- surely the statute of limitations must have been reached (especially given that it was a wholly legal activity at the time).

That leaves ongoing racism. Racism has been outlawed as a governmental practice for three generations -- since the Civil Rights era of the 1960s. Racism practiced by individuals is beyond government control -- racists are absolutely free to be racists because we have liberty of thought when it comes to such matters. What does that leave when it comes to reparations? Reparations to who and for what activity?
 
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