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I, too, am in favor of reparations.

trapdoor

Governor
HOLY SHIT !?!!?!?!?!??

First of all, the very idea of repaying reparations is simply unheard of, and so generous as to be self insulting. If you've never heard, reparations are supposed to be ONE WAY and not include returning the payment for damages. Yet somehow that is not good enough for you ?
Plus, you think someone outside those responsible for repayment should have a say in how it works and who should be entitled to what and how ?

Amazing....

The wealth created by the labor of their ancestor that was STOLEN is one of the central, if not most central, foundations of American wealth. It raised one group and lowered another. That has an effect that has lasted to this day.

Reparations are for damage done to one specific group. You seem to think every American should be compensated for what happened to one group of Americans.
Chattel Slavery was exclusive to one group in America.

You can't hide the wrong done here by trying to shift the blame to some other country. You didn't care that the Brits paid reparations to slave owners. So why are you trying to drag what African countries did in their lands as some kind of excuse for what was done here. This is about America, not anywhere else.

That did come up when reparations were paid to any other group. It went specifically to that group and no other group. Yet for the descendants of slaves it unconstitutional. How exactly do you figure that ?
A reparation is a repayment for damage.
the wealth stolen was stolen by other people from other people. You are providing reap a ration to the wrong people.

I wasn’t trying to shift blame to another country - you spoke of slavery as an EXCLUSIVE wrong, and I was pointing out that it isn’t exclusiv.
 

Spamature

President
A reparation is a repayment for damage.
the wealth stolen was stolen by other people from other people. You are providing reap a ration to the wrong people.

I wasn’t trying to shift blame to another country - you spoke of slavery as an EXCLUSIVE wrong, and I was pointing out that it isn’t exclusiv.
Do you deny the rights of Native Americans to receive reparations for their stolen land, even if the individuals who were forced from the land are no longer alive ?
By that I mean did that land belong to a people with the ownership of that land passing down to the next generations ? Or was that land never theirs to keep ?

Is the income from YOUR labor yours to pass on to future generations and theirs to receive ?
OR
Do you believe thievery to be a legitimate form of acquisition leading to rightful ownership ?


I said American chattel slavery was unique.
I have described the horrific ways in which it was unique to this land.
Do you know that the word motherfucker comes from the stories that in some cases sons were forced to breed with their own mothers on those breeding farms ?
 

trapdoor

Governor
Do you deny the rights of Native Americans to receive reparations for their stolen land, even if the individuals who were forced from the land are no longer alive ?
By that I mean did that land belong to a people with the ownership of that land passing down to the next generations ? Or was that land never theirs to keep ?

Is the income from YOUR labor yours to pass on to future generations and theirs to receive ?
OR
Do you believe thievery to be a legitimate form of acquisition leading to rightful ownership ?


I said American chattel slavery was unique.
I have described the horrific ways in which it was unique to this land.
Do you know that the word motherfucker comes from the stories that in some cases sons were forced to breed with their own mothers on those breeding farms ?
Yes, now having said that we are in violation of several active treaties signed with various Native American tribes and we should strive to come to full compliance with those treaties, but the people of America today didn't steal land from the native Americans -- they were born on it after it was stolen by other people.

My income isn't passed on to anyone. I may leave my nephews a very small inheritance, but none of it comes as the result of theft or other malfeasance and I owe it to no one else. In the same way, I owe no descendants of slaves any reparations -- I didn't steal from them, I didn't own them and even more importantly, they were never slaves.

I disagree that chattel slavery in the U.S. (during the roughly 90 years it was practiced in the U.S.) was significantly different from other places where it either was or is practiced on earth.
 

Spamature

President
Yes, now having said that we are in violation of several active treaties signed with various Native American tribes and we should strive to come to full compliance with those treaties, but the people of America today didn't steal land from the native Americans -- they were born on it after it was stolen by other people.

My income isn't passed on to anyone. I may leave my nephews a very small inheritance, but none of it comes as the result of theft or other malfeasance and I owe it to no one else. In the same way, I owe no descendants of slaves any reparations -- I didn't steal from them, I didn't own them and even more importantly, they were never slaves.

I disagree that chattel slavery in the U.S. (during the roughly 90 years it was practiced in the U.S.) was significantly different from other places where it either was or is practiced on earth.
Well, I think the idea of inheritance is well established and recognized under our laws, regardless of any individual's situation. Yet by your beliefs possession of a stolen inheritance does not even require the return of that theft so long as the individual in possession did not personally commit the crime. You believe that some how this type of thinking is the justifiable ?

Why ?

Then tell me where else did all the thinks I have mentioned exist together

Eternal enslavement of the individual and their descendants automatic enslavement based purely on skin color or assumed race.

The incorporation of that slavery into a modern constitution that was stated to be based upon individual liberty and freedom.


Breeding farms where rape and incest as production models

Men selling their own children at auction

These are some of the differences make American Chattel Slavery unique among other practices around the world.
 

trapdoor

Governor
Well, I think the idea of inheritance is well established and recognized under our laws, regardless of any individual's situation. Yet by your beliefs possession of a stolen inheritance does not even require the return of that theft so long as the individual in possession did not personally commit the crime. You believe that some how this type of thinking is the justifiable ?

Why ?

Then tell me where else did all the thinks I have mentioned exist together

Eternal enslavement of the individual and their descendants automatic enslavement based purely on skin color or assumed race.

The incorporation of that slavery into a modern constitution that was stated to be based upon individual liberty and freedom.


Breeding farms where rape and incest as production models

Men selling their own children at auction

These are some of the differences make American Chattel Slavery unique among other practices around the world.
Inheritance is well established, but if my grandfather was a thief, I don't inherit his theft nor culpability for that theft. This is quintuply true when the thief was not my grandfather, but his great-great-great grandfather. You ask me why I should pay for a "stolen" legacy. Well, like many if not most descendants of slave owners, I have no such legacy. My family experienced more than a century of semi-literate poverty. My grandfather on the side of my family that owned slaves was a share-cropper who never owned his own home. My father was born in a tar-paper shack with only a woodstove for heat -- it was the size of a shed you'd keep a lawn mower in today. His "legacy" was multi-generational poverty of a type you'd call third world today.

As for your links, almost nowhere else was kind enough to provide a written record, but those conditions existed almost everywhere the British Empire left a footprint before 1830, and later than that in many places with Muslim faith traditions. Chattel slavery is a horror. For good or ill it is not a horror unique to the history of the United States.
 

Spamature

President
Inheritance is well established, but if my grandfather was a thief, I don't inherit his theft nor culpability for that theft. This is quintuply true when the thief was not my grandfather, but his great-great-great grandfather. You ask me why I should pay for a "stolen" legacy. Well, like many if not most descendants of slave owners, I have no such legacy. My family experienced more than a century of semi-literate poverty. My grandfather on the side of my family that owned slaves was a share-cropper who never owned his own home. My father was born in a tar-paper shack with only a woodstove for heat -- it was the size of a shed you'd keep a lawn mower in today. His "legacy" was multi-generational poverty of a type you'd call third world today.

As for your links, almost nowhere else was kind enough to provide a written record, but those conditions existed almost everywhere the British Empire left a footprint before 1830, and later than that in many places with Muslim faith traditions. Chattel slavery is a horror. For good or ill it is not a horror unique to the history of the United States.
Well if we are going back to who is going to pay for reparations.
I have to remind you of what this thread poses as a solution for payment.
So the descendants of slavers are not on the hook for repairing the damage their ancestors inflicted. The question is whether they are entitled to recoup what was stolen, not the liability of the descendants of those who stole it.

It has been written about.






Plantation owners raping female slaves was a common occurrence. These children were born into slavery, through a legal doctrine known as partus sequitur ventrem. They were classified as mulattoes, a former term for a multiracial person. The one drop rule meant that they could never be part of white society. Some of the fathers treated these children well, sometimes providing educational or career opportunities, or manumitting (freeing) them. Examples are Archibald and Francis Grimké, and Thomas Jefferson's children by Sally Hemings. Others treated their multiracial children as property; Alexander Scott Withers, for instance, sold two of his children to slave traders, where they were sold again.
 

trapdoor

Governor
Well if we are going back to who is going to pay for reparations.
I have to remind you of what this thread poses as a solution for payment.
So the descendants of slavers are not on the hook for repairing the damage their ancestors inflicted. The question is whether they are entitled to recoup what was stolen, not the liability of the descendants of those who stole it.

It has been written about.






Plantation owners raping female slaves was a common occurrence. These children were born into slavery, through a legal doctrine known as partus sequitur ventrem. They were classified as mulattoes, a former term for a multiracial person. The one drop rule meant that they could never be part of white society. Some of the fathers treated these children well, sometimes providing educational or career opportunities, or manumitting (freeing) them. Examples are Archibald and Francis Grimké, and Thomas Jefferson's children by Sally Hemings. Others treated their multiracial children as property; Alexander Scott Withers, for instance, sold two of his children to slave traders, where they were sold again.
I repeat, no matter how you attempt to put it your scheme will not survive the political process as revenue neutral. The activists calling for reparations want not only compensation for slavery and racism, but retribution.
It wasn't necessary to provide proof of breeding and rape on American plantations as I never denied them.
 

Spamature

President
I repeat, no matter how you attempt to put it your scheme will not survive the political process as revenue neutral. The activists calling for reparations want not only compensation for slavery and racism, but retribution.
It wasn't necessary to provide proof of breeding and rape on American plantations as I never denied them.
Reparation not being revenue neutral is a big so what ?
When have any reparations ever been revenue neutral ?
The promise is that the principle will be repaid in full.

This calls for no retribution.
The benefit will be shared with other groups which is also something that is not supposed to happen in reparations. Especially when you share the benefit with group who from which the wrong originated. That is simply unheard of.

I thought you doubted the existence of the unique system of slavery practiced in America. Normally slavers invade a country, do their harm and eventually leave.
In America the enslavers were the occupants of the land. They were never going to leave and their intentions were to never let those they enslaved leave bondage. They intended that the enslaved would live forever, as property, no better than the other animals they bred.

I guess you could call it the prime example of our American exceptionalism, we speak of so often.
 

trapdoor

Governor
Reparation not being revenue neutral is a big so what ?
When have any reparations ever been revenue neutral ?
The promise is that the principle will be repaid in full.

This calls for no retribution.
The benefit will be shared with other groups which is also something that is not supposed to happen in reparations. Especially when you share the benefit with group who from which the wrong originated. That is simply unheard of.

I thought you doubted the existence of the unique system of slavery practiced in America. Normally slavers invade a country, do their harm and eventually leave.
In America the enslavers were the occupants of the land. They were never going to leave and their intentions were to never let those they enslaved leave bondage. They intended that the enslaved would live forever, as property, no better than the other animals they bred.

I guess you could call it the prime example of our American exceptionalism, we speak of so often.
I doubt breeding was unique to the US.

when it comes to your plan I’m merely assuming the existence of politics.
 

Spamature

President
I doubt breeding was unique to the US.

when it comes to your plan I’m merely assuming the existence of politics.
Enslavement is almost always carried out by invaders to a land or upon an invaded people through capture.

Breeding has to take place within the slavers long term control in order to profit from it. because capturing adults is a lot easier than spending years breeding slaves. It was practiced in America because the importation of slaves had been outlawed.

The reparations plan is designed to appeal to a potential coalition of financial and political interest aimed at counteracting resistance. It's also designed to be self contained in order to insulate itself from outside political interest.
 

Spamature

President
This effort to whitewash the history of American chattel slavery is what insults all communities in America, except for the racist ones promoting it of course.

In fact, when given the chance they always try to change the subject.

I am not interested in changing the subject.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
This effort to whitewash the history of American chattel slavery is what insults all communities in America, except for the racist ones promoting it of course.

In fact, when given the chance they always try to change the subject.

I am not interested in changing the subject.
It's strange how you can continue calling me a Racist and it's allowed........

How much reparations did you hand out today?
 

Spamature

President
It's strange how you can continue calling me a Racist and it's allowed........

How much reparations did you hand out today?
Wait ?

I said that racist try to whitewash American chattel slavery.
Or they try to change the subject.

If you are saying that post is about you in particular.

Then please tell me this:

Are you admitting to trying to whitewash American chattel slavery ?

Or

Are you admitting to trying to change the subject ?
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member

Spamature

President
True. CA was not a slave state.
But the slavery states like yours, they should pay for their evil sinful savages who practiced American chattel slavery.

Nothing in the top post proposal is unconstitutional.
Our govt loans more money than any entity on Earth.
Surely they can do for their own black people what they do for white people all over this planet.

We rebuilt both Germany and Japan after a war they started. Blacks never did anything to America except to be its most loyal citizens. Through its history, America could have never treated whites like black and then have whites still love America as much as blacks do.

There is no reason not to do this other than further hatred against black people. None.
 
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Dawg

President
Supporting Member
True. CA was not a slave state.
But the slavery states like yours, they should pay for their evil sinful savages who practiced American chattel slavery.

Nothing in the top post proposal is unconstitutional.
Our govt loans more money than any entity on Earth.
Surely they can do for their own black people what they do for white people all over this planet.

We rebuilt both Germany and Japan after a war they started. Blacks never did anything to America except to be its most loyal citizens. Through its history, America could have never treated whites like black and then have whites still love America as much as blacks do.

There is no reason not to do this other than further hatred against black people. None.
Of course you are and will LA be next after San Fran?

Octavia Spencer Says ‘Free And Liberal Thinking’ Los Angeles Has ‘More Racism’ Than South (msn.com)

Own it

Critics slam San Francisco's proposed $5 million reparations: 'Outrageous,' 'unconstitutional,' 'unlawful' (msn.com)
 
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Dawg

President
Supporting Member
The America's Army burned down Atlanta to keep the union together and out of the hands of traitors.

Beside, their ancestors built Atlanta.
I suppose you could say that this is what happens when you do not pay the debts for work already done.
So they burning down they people's neighborhoods as in most Blue cities

Oh well, Granny will just have to go without her Meds
 
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