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Just remember who among us argued for far less authoritarian interventionism...

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Regarding Covid...from the get go.

Last weekend, The Times published a survey of pandemic recommendations from experts considering the possibility of another outbreak, and it looked to me as though in nearly every case even those taking the more aggressive side of the argument endorsed mitigation measures that were no stronger and often weaker or more caveated than those that had been put in place in 2020. They did so even though the hypothetical disease they were considering was both more transmissible and more deadly than the new coronavirus (and even though it also affected children and adults equally). That is, faced with a disease that would spread more quickly than Covid, kill more of those infected than Covid, with a mortality burden, compared with Covid’s, markedly rebalanced toward the young, they would vote, in general, to do less.

This isn’t a question limited to abstract, virtual-reality-style debates on op-ed pages and social media. In at least 30 states, The Washington Post reported last week, legislatures have already passed laws limiting public health powers in the wake of the pandemic. Most of the states are in Republican control, but not all, and the restrictions legislated so far are quite intrusive: in many cases, extending outright bans against health officials or governors from issuing mask mandates, closing schools or businesses, restricting large gatherings in places like churches, or testing or vaccine protocols. But what is most striking is how little consideration they give to the particular attributes of future outbreaks — treating a future disease that spreads like measles but kills one in five kids it infects the same as one that spreads like swine flu and doesn’t kill anybody. And stopping public health authorities from doing anything about any of them.

Stop and think about that for a second: As the country emerges from three years of death, disruption and suffering, dozens of states have decided not just that future mitigation measures should be carefully targeted and calibrated, or that they should be time-limited, or that they should always integrate trade-offs and cost-benefit calculations from the beginning. They have decided that the best way to prepare for those future diseases is to tie our hands ahead of time.



Of course, the writer is whining about it (you should read the whole piece - it is a hoot), but the fact is that the majority of Americans are waking up to the completely unnecessary authoritarianism imposed on us by "the experts."

Even The Atlantic has to admit how stupid "the experts" actually are:

Following Your Gut Isn't the Right Way to Go - The Atlantic

Of course, they too whine about it and demand that we continue to get on our knees and accept whatever bad advice they impose upon us.

I think it is hilarious how all these sanctimonious lefties are being forced to address just how badly they erred in demanding our fealty to the likes of Anthony Fauci, Gretchen Whitmer and Joe "beady eyed" Biden, all of whom could not have been more wrong in their Covid beliefs. This isn't rocket science - it is always ALWAYS better to err on the side of freedom and liberty. The people will get it right way more frequently that the pols (and their conflicted "experts").

The line forms on the, um, left, to stop by here and congratulate me on getting this covid situation correct from day 1.
 

EatTheRich

President
It sounds to me as if the experts tend to prefer the kind of active response early on that if taken would have made unnecessary the authoritarian measures Trump et al. obliged the U.S. to institute by forcing us to play catch-up to the disaster that was his lackadaisical response.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
It sounds to me as if the experts tend to prefer the kind of active response early on that if taken would have made unnecessary the authoritarian measures Trump et al. obliged the U.S. to institute by forcing us to play catch-up to the disaster that was his lackadaisical response.
Sounds to me like you want to go on pretending the "experts" haven't been exposed as, well, frankly, idiots.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Regarding Covid...from the get go.

Last weekend, The Times published a survey of pandemic recommendations from experts considering the possibility of another outbreak, and it looked to me as though in nearly every case even those taking the more aggressive side of the argument endorsed mitigation measures that were no stronger and often weaker or more caveated than those that had been put in place in 2020. They did so even though the hypothetical disease they were considering was both more transmissible and more deadly than the new coronavirus (and even though it also affected children and adults equally). That is, faced with a disease that would spread more quickly than Covid, kill more of those infected than Covid, with a mortality burden, compared with Covid’s, markedly rebalanced toward the young, they would vote, in general, to do less.

This isn’t a question limited to abstract, virtual-reality-style debates on op-ed pages and social media. In at least 30 states, The Washington Post reported last week, legislatures have already passed laws limiting public health powers in the wake of the pandemic. Most of the states are in Republican control, but not all, and the restrictions legislated so far are quite intrusive: in many cases, extending outright bans against health officials or governors from issuing mask mandates, closing schools or businesses, restricting large gatherings in places like churches, or testing or vaccine protocols. But what is most striking is how little consideration they give to the particular attributes of future outbreaks — treating a future disease that spreads like measles but kills one in five kids it infects the same as one that spreads like swine flu and doesn’t kill anybody. And stopping public health authorities from doing anything about any of them.

Stop and think about that for a second: As the country emerges from three years of death, disruption and suffering, dozens of states have decided not just that future mitigation measures should be carefully targeted and calibrated, or that they should be time-limited, or that they should always integrate trade-offs and cost-benefit calculations from the beginning. They have decided that the best way to prepare for those future diseases is to tie our hands ahead of time.



Of course, the writer is whining about it (you should read the whole piece - it is a hoot), but the fact is that the majority of Americans are waking up to the completely unnecessary authoritarianism imposed on us by "the experts."

Even The Atlantic has to admit how stupid "the experts" actually are:

Following Your Gut Isn't the Right Way to Go - The Atlantic

Of course, they too whine about it and demand that we continue to get on our knees and accept whatever bad advice they impose upon us.

I think it is hilarious how all these sanctimonious lefties are being forced to address just how badly they erred in demanding our fealty to the likes of Anthony Fauci, Gretchen Whitmer and Joe "beady eyed" Biden, all of whom could not have been more wrong in their Covid beliefs. This isn't rocket science - it is always ALWAYS better to err on the side of freedom and liberty. The people will get it right way more frequently that the pols (and their conflicted "experts").

The line forms on the, um, left, to stop by here and congratulate me on getting this covid situation correct from day 1.
You should re-read the Atlantic article. It doesn't say the experts were stupid. It says those who claimed expertise they didn't have and promoted the conspiracy theories...like you...were to blame for confusion and a lack of compliance.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Sounds to me like you want to go on pretending the "experts" haven't been exposed as, well, frankly, idiots.
No, you have definately been exposed to all as a promoter of conspiracy theories...like the one about controlling the population through forcing people to wear masks. It is truly idiotic to think the medical professionals and government conspired to force the population into subservience by using temporary measures hoping to lessen the impact of a pandemic.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
Regarding Covid...from the get go.

Last weekend, The Times published a survey of pandemic recommendations from experts considering the possibility of another outbreak, and it looked to me as though in nearly every case even those taking the more aggressive side of the argument endorsed mitigation measures that were no stronger and often weaker or more caveated than those that had been put in place in 2020. They did so even though the hypothetical disease they were considering was both more transmissible and more deadly than the new coronavirus (and even though it also affected children and adults equally). That is, faced with a disease that would spread more quickly than Covid, kill more of those infected than Covid, with a mortality burden, compared with Covid’s, markedly rebalanced toward the young, they would vote, in general, to do less.

This isn’t a question limited to abstract, virtual-reality-style debates on op-ed pages and social media. In at least 30 states, The Washington Post reported last week, legislatures have already passed laws limiting public health powers in the wake of the pandemic. Most of the states are in Republican control, but not all, and the restrictions legislated so far are quite intrusive: in many cases, extending outright bans against health officials or governors from issuing mask mandates, closing schools or businesses, restricting large gatherings in places like churches, or testing or vaccine protocols. But what is most striking is how little consideration they give to the particular attributes of future outbreaks — treating a future disease that spreads like measles but kills one in five kids it infects the same as one that spreads like swine flu and doesn’t kill anybody. And stopping public health authorities from doing anything about any of them.

Stop and think about that for a second: As the country emerges from three years of death, disruption and suffering, dozens of states have decided not just that future mitigation measures should be carefully targeted and calibrated, or that they should be time-limited, or that they should always integrate trade-offs and cost-benefit calculations from the beginning. They have decided that the best way to prepare for those future diseases is to tie our hands ahead of time.



Of course, the writer is whining about it (you should read the whole piece - it is a hoot), but the fact is that the majority of Americans are waking up to the completely unnecessary authoritarianism imposed on us by "the experts."

Even The Atlantic has to admit how stupid "the experts" actually are:

Following Your Gut Isn't the Right Way to Go - The Atlantic

Of course, they too whine about it and demand that we continue to get on our knees and accept whatever bad advice they impose upon us.

I think it is hilarious how all these sanctimonious lefties are being forced to address just how badly they erred in demanding our fealty to the likes of Anthony Fauci, Gretchen Whitmer and Joe "beady eyed" Biden, all of whom could not have been more wrong in their Covid beliefs. This isn't rocket science - it is always ALWAYS better to err on the side of freedom and liberty. The people will get it right way more frequently that the pols (and their conflicted "experts").

The line forms on the, um, left, to stop by here and congratulate me on getting this covid situation correct from day 1.
The REAL takeaway from all of this - and it’s made even more apparent by the content of this article - is that statist lefty has succeeded in wrecking what is at America’s very core: We now need to pass incremental laws to PROHIBIT government intrusion into our lives rather than to ENABLE it. The default position is that government CAN shut down churches while leaving liquor stores open, for example.

At federal and state levels, idiot citizens have abided decades and decades of government power grabs, forever ceding more and more authority and autonomy. Again, the default orientation is that of overwhelming State authority over our lives…and we then need to act in small, targeted bits to pare it back here or there. This is precisely OPPOSITE of our charter.

…and American citizens are p*ssies. Pardon my French.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
The REAL takeaway from all of this - and it’s made even more apparent by the content of this article - is that statist lefty has succeeded in wrecking what is at America’s very core: We now need to pass incremental laws to PROHIBIT government intrusion into our lives rather than to ENABLE it. The default position is that government CAN shut down churches while leaving liquor stores open, for example.

At federal and state levels, idiot citizens have abided decades and decades of government power grabs, forever ceding more and more authority and autonomy. Again, the default orientation is that of overwhelming State authority over our lives…and we then need to act in small, targeted bits to pare it back here or there. This is precisely OPPOSITE of our charter.

…and American citizens are p*ssies. Pardon my French.
That is a brilliant observation Rick! That is so extremely sad I need to go crack a cold Stoney's immediately.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
The REAL takeaway from all of this - and it’s made even more apparent by the content of this article - is that statist lefty has succeeded in wrecking what is at America’s very core: We now need to pass incremental laws to PROHIBIT government intrusion into our lives rather than to ENABLE it. The default position is that government CAN shut down churches while leaving liquor stores open, for example.

At federal and state levels, idiot citizens have abided decades and decades of government power grabs, forever ceding more and more authority and autonomy. Again, the default orientation is that of overwhelming State authority over our lives…and we then need to act in small, targeted bits to pare it back here or there. This is precisely OPPOSITE of our charter.

…and American citizens are p*ssies. Pardon my French.
Gee...what could possibly be different between a church and a liquor store?

Yep...it is all about government power....not at all about a genuine concern for the pandemic and its impact on the people of the nation....
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
That is a brilliant observation Rick! That is so extremely sad I need to go crack a cold Stoney's immediately.
Every time you take a step back and survey the larger pattern, one cannot help but have the gag reflex triggered. It really is sad - but what’s worse is that we have no one prominent who makes these observations. The oft used and abused frog boiling story is entirely true. We need a Paul Revere (or PJ O’Roark) to sound the alarm via ongoing commentary.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
Gee...what could possibly be different between a church and a liquor store?

Yep...it is all about government power....not at all about a genuine concern for the pandemic and its impact on the people of the nation....
When confronted with a choice between booze and Christ…lefty chooses da hooch. No shock there.

The point, however, is that the State should not have - and does not have - this authority over the church…and in the future, we Christians should not indulge the State such overreach. I know I won’t.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
When confronted with a choice between booze and Christ…lefty chooses da hooch. No shock there.

The point, however, is that the State should not have - and does not have - this authority over the church…and in the future, we Christians should not indulge the State such overreach. I know I won’t.
When you are faced with a choice between making sense or scraping up crap to blame lefty for...no shock there.

You think temporarily suspending in person church services that people would turn away from Christ? I guess the Christians you know have a pretty thin devotion to the Lord.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Hebrews 10:25 - Do not forsake assembling.

If Middleview wants to forsake assembling, that’s Middleview’s business. However if Middleview wants to coerce others to prohibit their assembling, he is once again Government’view.

…As always.
Who said "forsake assembling"?

For sake:
abandon
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
When you are faced with a choice between making sense or scraping up crap to blame lefty for...no shock there.

You think temporarily suspending in person church services that people would turn away from Christ? I guess the Christians you know have a pretty thin devotion to the Lord.
No, I guess the Christians I know adhere to His Word (like that passage from Hebrews, for example)…whereas statist lefty filters even the authority of the Lord through the state.

And I demonstrated precisely that. You have shown that God’s word is, at best, secondary to that of government. HereticviewGovernment-view. Certainly not a correct Christianview.
 

bdtex

Administrator
Staff member
You should re-read the Atlantic article. It doesn't say the experts were stupid. It says those who claimed expertise they didn't have and promoted the conspiracy theories...like you...were to blame for confusion and a lack of compliance.
Thank God they went to the head of the superspreader lines. Darwin had his way.
 
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