3 Key Reasons for War in Ukraine

[EatTheRich]

Cho was executed by firing squad in 1950...Kim was installed as first secretary of the Korean Communist Party by General Shtykov and was subordinate to him right up until the Chinese sent 500,000 troops into Korea during the war.

Kim was never first secretary of the Communist Party. He was first secretary of the North Korean Branch Bureau, which was subordinate to the party’s Central Committee, and for that position he was elected by the Executive Committee. Much later (in 1966), he was elected General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Workers’ Party by the Central Committee. When the Soviets entered N. Korea they immediately turned control of the government over to the Provisional Government set up by the People’s Committees.

 

[PhilFish]

George is just looking for ways to bash the US, no ?

George is entertaining. Little more

 

[PhilFish]

Great we agree - we had to "give" them their money because they could not obtain it on their own.

Uh..yup. theirs. Cause we held it up

 

[middleview]

Kim was never first secretary of the Communist Party. He was first secretary of the North Korean Branch Bureau, which was subordinate to the party’s Central Committee, and for that position he was elected by the Executive Committee. Much later (in 1966), he was elected General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Workers’ Party by the Central Committee. When the Soviets entered N. Korea they immediately turned control of the government over to the Provisional Government set up by the People’s Committees.

wow...picking nits aren't you? Kim was put in the position by the Soviet General. Calling a vote is silly. It was a vote of one.

A protégé of the influential politician Andrei Zhdanov, General Shtykov served as a political commissar during World War II, ending up on the Military Council of the Primorskiy Military District.[4] Through direct access to Joseph Stalin, Shtykov became the "real supreme ruler of North Korea, the principal supervisor of both the Soviet military and the local authorities."[5] Shtykov conceived of the Soviet Civil Administration, supported Kim's appointment as head of the North Korean provisional government, and assisted Stalin with editing the first North Korean constitution.

As the most powerful man in the northern occupation zone of Korea, Shtykov personally selected the composition of the Soviet Civil Administration, and its second leader would comment that “there was not an event [in North Korea] in which Shtykov was not involved.”[7] Shtykov's strong support of Kim Il Sung was decisive in Kim's rise to power. Shtykov continued to be the preeminent power in the North after Kim was made chairman of the Provisional People's Committee for North Korea.[4] In December 1946, Shtykov and two other Soviet generals designed the election results of the Assembly for the Provisional Committee. Without any Korean input, the generals decided "the exact distribution of seats among the parties, the number of women members, and, more broadly, the precise social composition of the legislature."[8]

Terenty Shtykov - Wikipedia

 

[EatTheRich]

wow...picking nits aren't you? Kim was put in the position by the Soviet General. Calling a vote is silly. It was a vote of one.

A protégé of the influential politician Andrei Zhdanov, General Shtykov served as a political commissar during World War II, ending up on the Military Council of the Primorskiy Military District.[4] Through direct access to Joseph Stalin, Shtykov became the "real supreme ruler of North Korea, the principal supervisor of both the Soviet military and the local authorities."[5] Shtykov conceived of the Soviet Civil Administration, supported Kim's appointment as head of the North Korean provisional government, and assisted Stalin with editing the first North Korean constitution.

As the most powerful man in the northern occupation zone of Korea, Shtykov personally selected the composition of the Soviet Civil Administration, and its second leader would comment that “there was not an event [in North Korea] in which Shtykov was not involved.”[7] Shtykov's strong support of Kim Il Sung was decisive in Kim's rise to power. Shtykov continued to be the preeminent power in the North after Kim was made chairman of the Provisional People's Committee for North Korea.[4] In December 1946, Shtykov and two other Soviet generals designed the election results of the Assembly for the Provisional Committee. Without any Korean input, the generals decided "the exact distribution of seats among the parties, the number of women members, and, more broadly, the precise social composition of the legislature."[8]

Terenty Shtykov - Wikipedia

That his every move was dictated by the Korean masses who dominated the revolutionary process is demonstrated by the widespread uprisings in the south in favor of the DPRK government, by the ROK government's policy of indiscriminate massacres of civilians on the justified assumption that the vast majority of them supported the DPRK, and by Moscow's disappointment with the composition of the DPRK government.

 

[middleview]

That his every move was dictated by the Korean masses who dominated the revolutionary process is demonstrated by the widespread uprisings in the south in favor of the DPRK government, by the ROK government's policy of indiscriminate massacres of civilians on the justified assumption that the vast majority of them supported the DPRK, and by Moscow's disappointment with the composition of the DPRK government.

You continue to do your best to defend the entire process from the end of 1945 to now and claim the USA is the villain. Clearly the Russians controlled the country. The Russian General picked Kim Il Sung to be the new supreme leader...and he left the country to his kid...Kim Jong Il and he left the family dictatorship to his son...Kim Jong Un.

Do you think anyone in the South would want to deflect to the North?

 

[EatTheRich]

You continue to do your best to defend the entire process from the end of 1945 to now and claim the USA is the villain. Clearly the Russians controlled the country. The Russian General picked Kim Il Sung to be the new supreme leader...and he left the country to his kid...Kim Jong Il and he left the family dictatorship to his son...Kim Jong Un.

Do you think anyone in the South would want to deflect to the North?

Yes, when the Soviet government’s efforts to install a still more centrist government that would be still more pliant to imperialism faltered in the face of mass resistance by the Korean, Chinese, and Soviet masses, they swung the considerable weight of state power behind Kim in order to forestall the formation of the more leftist government committed to a class-struggle program supported by the majority. Later, the centrist bureaucracy would similarly take advantage of Kim’s personality cult and the centralization of power to promote dynastic rule in order to constrain the revolution within centrist bounds by squelching workers’ democracy.

 

[middleview]

Yes, when the Soviet government’s efforts to install a still more centrist government that would be still more pliant to imperialism faltered in the face of mass resistance by the Korean, Chinese, and Soviet masses, they swung the considerable weight of state power behind Kim in order to forestall the formation of the more leftist government committed to a class-struggle program supported by the majority. Later, the centrist bureaucracy would similarly take advantage of Kim’s personality cult and the centralization of power to promote dynastic rule in order to constrain the revolution within centrist bounds by squelching workers’ democracy.

It is and was a family kleptocracy. He stays in power by hyping a threat from the US...he spends money on nuclear weapons and ballistic missile systems rather than on food and housing....I wonder how many families have cars or air conditioning in their homes...

It is the North that is a threat...not the South.

 

[EatTheRich]

It is and was a family kleptocracy. He stays in power by hyping a threat from the US...he spends money on nuclear weapons and ballistic missile systems rather than on food and housing....I wonder how many families have cars or air conditioning in their homes...

It is the North that is a threat...not the South.

You mean that the real threat from the U.S., as intended, keeps him in power (preventing a democratization and proletarianization of the regime).

 

[middleview]

You mean that the real threat from the U.S., as intended, keeps him in power (preventing a democratization and proletarianization of the regime).

They have killed US soldiers on numerous occasions....remember the two soldiers killed in 1976 for trimming a tree? Did you forget the North Korean raid on the Blue House?
The North Koreans have killed over 100 US soldiers in various incidents at the DMZ.

Have you had a chance to visit the USS Pueblo museum?

If the US wanted a war, we have had ample provocation.

 

[EatTheRich]

They have killed US soldiers on numerous occasions....remember the two soldiers killed in 1976 for trimming a tree? Did you forget the North Korean raid on the Blue House?
The North Koreans have killed over 100 US soldiers in various incidents at the DMZ.

Have you had a chance to visit the USS Pueblo museum?

If the US wanted a war, we have had ample provocation.

The countries are at war. If the U.S. wanted a peace treaty, they could get one. That the U.S. is afraid to renew major hostilities due to N. Korea’s military and political defense arrangements does not negate the threat.

 

[middleview]

The countries are at war. If the U.S. wanted a peace treaty, they could get one. That the U.S. is afraid to renew major hostilities due to N. Korea’s military and political defense arrangements does not negate the threat.

You completely ignore the facts and excuse hostile acts by the North.

 

[georgephillip]

Cho was executed by firing squad in 1950...Kim was installed as first secretary of the Korean Communist Party by General Shtykov and was subordinate to him right up until the Chinese sent 500,000 troops into Korea during the war.

Cho had no following south of the 38th parallel unlike...

"Lyuh Woon-hyung or Yo Un-hyung[c] (25 May 1886 – 19 July 1947) was a Korean politician who argued that Korean independence was essential to world peace, and a reunification activist who struggled for the independent reunification of Korea following its national division in 1945..."

"He is rare among politicians in modern Korean history for being revered in both South and North Korea."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyuh_Woon-hyung

 

[middleview]

Cho had no following south of the 38th parallel unlike...

"Lyuh Woon-hyung or Yo Un-hyung[c] (25 May 1886 – 19 July 1947) was a Korean politician who argued that Korean independence was essential to world peace, and a reunification activist who struggled for the independent reunification of Korea following its national division in 1945..."

"He is rare among politicians in modern Korean history for being revered in both South and North Korea."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyuh_Woon-hyung

You wrote this:

"Unlike their American counterparts, the Soviet authorities recognized and worked with the People's Committees.[15][16] By some accounts, Cho Man-sik was the Soviet government's first choice to lead North Korea."

Cho was later executed in Pyongyang....

Kim was chosen by the Russian General who was head of the provisional government.

 

[georgephillip]

You wrote this:

"Unlike their American counterparts, the Soviet authorities recognized and worked with the People's Committees.[15][16] By some accounts, Cho Man-sik was the Soviet government's first choice to lead North Korea."

Cho was later executed in Pyongyang....

Kim was chosen by the Russian General who was head of the provisional government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il_Sung

"In December 1945, the Soviets installed Kim as First Secretary of the North Korean Branch Bureau of the Korean Communist Party.[25]: 56 "

December 1950 or 63 months AFTER the US prevented peninsula-wide elections in September of 1945.

"Kim arrived in the Korean port of Wonsan on 19 September 1945 after 26 years in exile.[25]: 51  According to Leonid Vassin, an officer with the Soviet MVD, Kim was essentially 'created from zero'.

"For one, his Korean was marginal at best; he only had eight years of formal education, all of it in Chinese.

"He needed considerable coaching to read a speech (which the MVD prepared for him) at a Communist Party congress three days after he arrived "

 

[EatTheRich]

You completely ignore the facts and excuse hostile acts by the North.

N. Korea’s defense against U.S. aggression is analogous to Ukraine’s defense against Russian aggression, with the added factor of a direct class antagonism between the social base of the 2 states.

 

[georgephillip]

N. Korea’s defense against U.S. aggression is analogous to Ukraine’s defense against Russian aggression, with the added factor of a direct class antagonism between the social base of the 2 states.

US aggression has been entirely responsible for the mass killing in Korea and Ukraine not to mention the similar war crimes in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The biggest difference between US meddling in Korea and Ukraine is the ability of Russia to hit back at the source of the aggression.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/22/infographic-how-many-nuclear-weapons-does-russia-have

 

[middleview]

N. Korea’s defense against U.S. aggression is analogous to Ukraine’s defense against Russian aggression, with the added factor of a direct class antagonism between the social base of the 2 states.

Ukraine was invaded by Russia. South Korea was invaded by North Korea. The analogy is incorrect.

 

[middleview]

US aggression has been entirely responsible for the mass killing in Korea and Ukraine not to mention the similar war crimes in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The biggest difference between US meddling in Korea and Ukraine is the ability of Russia to hit back at the source of the aggression.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/22/infographic-how-many-nuclear-weapons-does-russia-have

If North Korea had not invaded...there would have been no war. If Gaddafi hadn't ordered his troops to open fire on demonstrators. There would have been no civil war. If Assad had not had his troops to open fire on demonstrators...there would not be a war. If the Taliban had not harbored Al Qaeda and allowed 911, there would not have been a US invasion.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Stoltenberg says the quiet part out loud:

According to the U.S. government and the ever-obsequious New York Times, the Ukraine war was “unprovoked,” the Times’ favorite adjective to describe the war. Putin, allegedly mistaking himself for Peter the Great, invaded Ukraine to recreate the Russian Empire. Yet last week, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg committed a Washington gaffe, meaning that he accidently blurted out the truth.

In testimony to the European Union Parliament, Stoltenberg made clear that it was America’s relentless push to enlarge NATO to Ukraine that was the real cause of the war and why it continues today. Here are Stoltenberg’s revealing words:

“The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition to not invade Ukraine. Of course, we didn't sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second-class membership. We rejected that.

So, he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.”

To repeat, he [Putin] went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.

When Prof. John Mearsheimer, I, and others have said the same, we’ve been attacked as Putin apologists. The same critics also choose to hide or flatly ignore the dire warnings against NATO enlargement to Ukraine long articulated by many of America’s leading diplomats, including the great scholar-statesman George Kennan, and the former US Ambassadors to Russia Jack Matlock and William Burns.

Burns, now CIA Director, was US Ambassador to Russia in 2008, and author of a memo entitled “Nyet means Nyet.” In that memo, Burns explained to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the entire Russian political class, not just Putin, was dead-set against NATO enlargement. We know about the memo only because it was leaked. Otherwise, we’d be in the dark about it.

Why does Russia oppose NATO enlargement? For the simple reason that Russia does not accept the U.S. military on its 2,300 km border with Ukraine in the Black Sea region. Russia does not appreciate the U.S. placement of Aegis missiles in Poland and Romania after the U.S. unilaterally abandoned the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty.

NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine

The continuing U.S. obsession with NATO enlargement is profoundly irresponsible and hypocritical. And now Ukrainians are paying a terrible price.

www.commondreams.org