$30,000 subsidy per subway rider? OMG – we're all gonna die . . .

[as seen on tv]

​

Photo above - are these guys included in the official headcount of subway riders? Or do they live here? Wait - it can be two things at once, can't it?

If you needed any more proof that government bureaucrats and politicians are too inept to do ANYTHING, check out the link at bottom. Boston's says it needs $25 BILLION (with a B) to maintain and repair its mass transit system.

This is such an astonishing number, I immediately googled “How many daily riders does the MBTA have?” The answer seems large enough – 760,000. Until you divide it into the $25 Billion which the transit bureaucracy is demanding. It works out to $30,000 PER RIDER !!! (Of course, Boston won't need $25 billion EVERY year - just until the next time repairs and maintenance get out of hand).

You can probably predict what my next Google query was. “What top rated cars can I buy for $30,000?” How about Motor Trend's 2024 “Car of the Year” - the all-new Toyota Prius. It gets 57 miles per gallon. You can't make up stuff this bizarre. In our version of all the infinite universes it costs more to put a guy on the subway than to give him a brand-new car for free. I also tried to find out how many gallons of fuel per passenger mile Boston's MBTA uses. Good luck with that - if you can find a source, let us know. So let's stick to the known facts . . .

1. Bostons subways and light rail run on electricity, which is mostly generated from aging coal fired plants
   
2. The subways operate at less than half capacity – sometimes less than 10% of capacity - during much of the day.
   
3. A subway car weighs 40 tons. And it's usually closer to empty than full. And you need thousands of them to move the 760,000 passengers. If each car was occupied to capacity (100 riders), for a 2-way commute, you'd need more than 4,000 subway cars. (Check my math please)

The real story though - the one not explored in the CBS report - is “how did Boston get $25 billion behind in it's subway maintenance?”

The answer may sound like a snark, but it's not: When public infrastructure is involved, there is rarely enough money budgeted for repairs and maintenance. It's not just Boston I'm condemning here. It's almost every city or state government. Bureaucracies have 2 choices –

1. Set daily fares (or KWH electric rates) high enough to cover the actual cost of maintaining competent service, or . .

2. Keep rates lower, and let things go to the point of failure, THEN plead for a bailout.

Since the bailout will ALWAYS be needed "far in the future" the guys who pick door number 2 are always off the hook. The new guys – 20 years later – inherit the billion dollar repair problems. “Our subways are a dangerous monstrosity” . . . “Another million acres of California brushland burned because we have century old high-tension wires” . . .“The city of Lahaina is destroyed. It burned to a crisp in less than an hour – both the electric wires AND the water system were grossly deficient.” . . .

$30,000 per rider! Okay . . . I'll give that a break. California and Hawaii pay the highest electric rates in the nation. The HIGHEST! In many cases DOUBLE what it costs people living in normal places. How much more would electricity in paradise cost if electric grids dating back to the Woodrow Wilson administration had been properly maintained and modernized? No wonder there are crazy high incentives to install rooftop solar. If we depend on the grid, we're doomed.

I live in Florida, but I'm not going to gloat here. Shitty mass transit is a feature (not a bug) of urban life. Even Washington DC, which built the most modern subway system in the world a few decades ago, is now castigated for spending zero to keep it nice. DC metro has the highest rate of breakdowns in the USA – worse than Boston and NY. Where I live (near Tampa, Florida) we don't actually have subways. Something about not being able to dig more 3 feet down without striking an underground river. So, while Floridians are spared the ongoing nightmare of public transit run by morons and shyster politicians (who are more concerned with banning library books) we have our own problem: Fresh water - not enough of it. Florida's ground water is all pumped out. Seawater is infiltrating in, making it undrinkable. This is due to massive population growth, failing infrastructure, and an unwillingness to charge what it costs to purchase desalinization plants and reservoirs. Florida is the state that couldn't even snuff out a few hundred invasive Burmese pythons - and now we have 100,000. Why should anyone expect that safe drinking water could be handled competently?

I'm just sayin' . . .

MBTA says it needs $24.5 billion to repair transit system - CBS Boston (cbsnews.com)

 

[TBLee]

View attachment 76741
​

Photo above - are these guys included in the official headcount of subway riders? Or do they live here? Wait - it can be two things at once, can't it?

If you needed any more proof that government bureaucrats and politicians are too inept to do ANYTHING, check out the link at bottom. Boston's says it needs $25 BILLION (with a B) to maintain and repair its mass transit system.

This is such an astonishing number, I immediately googled “How many daily riders does the MBTA have?” The answer seems large enough – 760,000. Until you divide it into the $25 Billion which the transit bureaucracy is demanding. It works out to $30,000 PER RIDER !!! (Of course, Boston won't need $25 billion EVERY year - just until the next time repairs and maintenance get out of hand).

You can probably predict what my next Google query was. “What top rated cars can I buy for $30,000?” How about Motor Trend's 2024 “Car of the Year” - the all-new Toyota Prius. It gets 57 miles per gallon. You can't make up stuff this bizarre. In our version of all the infinite universes it costs more to put a guy on the subway than to give him a brand-new car for free. I also tried to find out how many gallons of fuel per passenger mile Boston's MBTA uses. Good luck with that - if you can find a source, let us know. So let's stick to the known facts . . .

1. Bostons subways and light rail run on electricity, which is mostly generated from aging coal fired plants
   
2. The subways operate at less than half capacity – sometimes less than 10% of capacity - during much of the day.
   
3. A subway car weighs 40 tons. And it's usually closer to empty than full. And you need thousands of them to move the 760,000 passengers. If each car was occupied to capacity (100 riders), for a 2-way commute, you'd need more than 4,000 subway cars. (Check my math please)

The real story though - the one not explored in the CBS report - is “how did Boston get $25 billion behind in it's subway maintenance?”

The answer may sound like a snark, but it's not: When public infrastructure is involved, there is rarely enough money budgeted for repairs and maintenance. It's not just Boston I'm condemning here. It's almost every city or state government. Bureaucracies have 2 choices –

1. Set daily fares (or KWH electric rates) high enough to cover the actual cost of maintaining competent service, or . .

2. Keep rates lower, and let things go to the point of failure, THEN plead for a bailout.

Since the bailout will ALWAYS be needed "far in the future" the guys who pick door number 2 are always off the hook. The new guys – 20 years later – inherit the billion dollar repair problems. “Our subways are a dangerous monstrosity” . . . “Another million acres of California brushland burned because we have century old high-tension wires” . . .“The city of Lahaina is destroyed. It burned to a crisp in less than an hour – both the electric wires AND the water system were grossly deficient.” . . .

$30,000 per rider! Okay . . . I'll give that a break. California and Hawaii pay the highest electric rates in the nation. The HIGHEST! In many cases DOUBLE what it costs people living in normal places. How much more would electricity in paradise cost if electric grids dating back to the Woodrow Wilson administration had been properly maintained and modernized? No wonder there are crazy high incentives to install rooftop solar. If we depend on the grid, we're doomed.

I live in Florida, but I'm not going to gloat here. Shitty mass transit is a feature (not a bug) of urban life. Even Washington DC, which built the most modern subway system in the world a few decades ago, is now castigated for spending zero to keep it nice. DC metro has the highest rate of breakdowns in the USA – worse than Boston and NY. Where I live (near Tampa, Florida) we don't actually have subways. Something about not being able to dig more 3 feet down without striking an underground river. So, while Floridians are spared the ongoing nightmare of public transit run by morons and shyster politicians (who are more concerned with banning library books) we have our own problem: Fresh water - not enough of it. Florida's ground water is all pumped out. Seawater is infiltrating in, making it undrinkable. This is due to massive population growth, failing infrastructure, and an unwillingness to charge what it costs to purchase desalinization plants and reservoirs. Florida is the state that couldn't even snuff out a few hundred invasive Burmese pythons - and now we have 100,000. Why should anyone expect that safe drinking water could be handled competently?

I'm just sayin' . . .

MBTA says it needs $24.5 billion to repair transit system - CBS Boston (cbsnews.com)

Thanks for sharing! Looks like I may need to do a little research. Boston is a nightmare city to get around in (Driving there sucks), and the transit Is a mess as well, but with that being said I would much rather spend time there instead of NY City. Although I do try to avoid major cities whenever possible. This thread is just more proof of idiots bureaucrats.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

View attachment 76741
​

Photo above - are these guys included in the official headcount of subway riders? Or do they live here? Wait - it can be two things at once, can't it?

If you needed any more proof that government bureaucrats and politicians are too inept to do ANYTHING, check out the link at bottom. Boston's says it needs $25 BILLION (with a B) to maintain and repair its mass transit system.

This is such an astonishing number, I immediately googled “How many daily riders does the MBTA have?” The answer seems large enough – 760,000. Until you divide it into the $25 Billion which the transit bureaucracy is demanding. It works out to $30,000 PER RIDER !!! (Of course, Boston won't need $25 billion EVERY year - just until the next time repairs and maintenance get out of hand).

You can probably predict what my next Google query was. “What top rated cars can I buy for $30,000?” How about Motor Trend's 2024 “Car of the Year” - the all-new Toyota Prius. It gets 57 miles per gallon. You can't make up stuff this bizarre. In our version of all the infinite universes it costs more to put a guy on the subway than to give him a brand-new car for free. I also tried to find out how many gallons of fuel per passenger mile Boston's MBTA uses. Good luck with that - if you can find a source, let us know. So let's stick to the known facts . . .

1. Bostons subways and light rail run on electricity, which is mostly generated from aging coal fired plants
   
2. The subways operate at less than half capacity – sometimes less than 10% of capacity - during much of the day.
   
3. A subway car weighs 40 tons. And it's usually closer to empty than full. And you need thousands of them to move the 760,000 passengers. If each car was occupied to capacity (100 riders), for a 2-way commute, you'd need more than 4,000 subway cars. (Check my math please)

The real story though - the one not explored in the CBS report - is “how did Boston get $25 billion behind in it's subway maintenance?”

The answer may sound like a snark, but it's not: When public infrastructure is involved, there is rarely enough money budgeted for repairs and maintenance. It's not just Boston I'm condemning here. It's almost every city or state government. Bureaucracies have 2 choices –

1. Set daily fares (or KWH electric rates) high enough to cover the actual cost of maintaining competent service, or . .

2. Keep rates lower, and let things go to the point of failure, THEN plead for a bailout.

Since the bailout will ALWAYS be needed "far in the future" the guys who pick door number 2 are always off the hook. The new guys – 20 years later – inherit the billion dollar repair problems. “Our subways are a dangerous monstrosity” . . . “Another million acres of California brushland burned because we have century old high-tension wires” . . .“The city of Lahaina is destroyed. It burned to a crisp in less than an hour – both the electric wires AND the water system were grossly deficient.” . . .

$30,000 per rider! Okay . . . I'll give that a break. California and Hawaii pay the highest electric rates in the nation. The HIGHEST! In many cases DOUBLE what it costs people living in normal places. How much more would electricity in paradise cost if electric grids dating back to the Woodrow Wilson administration had been properly maintained and modernized? No wonder there are crazy high incentives to install rooftop solar. If we depend on the grid, we're doomed.

I live in Florida, but I'm not going to gloat here. Shitty mass transit is a feature (not a bug) of urban life. Even Washington DC, which built the most modern subway system in the world a few decades ago, is now castigated for spending zero to keep it nice. DC metro has the highest rate of breakdowns in the USA – worse than Boston and NY. Where I live (near Tampa, Florida) we don't actually have subways. Something about not being able to dig more 3 feet down without striking an underground river. So, while Floridians are spared the ongoing nightmare of public transit run by morons and shyster politicians (who are more concerned with banning library books) we have our own problem: Fresh water - not enough of it. Florida's ground water is all pumped out. Seawater is infiltrating in, making it undrinkable. This is due to massive population growth, failing infrastructure, and an unwillingness to charge what it costs to purchase desalinization plants and reservoirs. Florida is the state that couldn't even snuff out a few hundred invasive Burmese pythons - and now we have 100,000. Why should anyone expect that safe drinking water could be handled competently?

I'm just sayin' . . .

MBTA says it needs $24.5 billion to repair transit system - CBS Boston (cbsnews.com)

So?

Tally up all the costs of using cars, including such soft costs, and we’ll have a comparison to discuss. Otherwise, the only point is “stuff costs a lot of money.” Duh.

 

[RickWA]

View attachment 76741
​

Photo above - are these guys included in the official headcount of subway riders? Or do they live here? Wait - it can be two things at once, can't it?

If you needed any more proof that government bureaucrats and politicians are too inept to do ANYTHING, check out the link at bottom. Boston's says it needs $25 BILLION (with a B) to maintain and repair its mass transit system.

This is such an astonishing number, I immediately googled “How many daily riders does the MBTA have?” The answer seems large enough – 760,000. Until you divide it into the $25 Billion which the transit bureaucracy is demanding. It works out to $30,000 PER RIDER !!! (Of course, Boston won't need $25 billion EVERY year - just until the next time repairs and maintenance get out of hand).

You can probably predict what my next Google query was. “What top rated cars can I buy for $30,000?” How about Motor Trend's 2024 “Car of the Year” - the all-new Toyota Prius. It gets 57 miles per gallon. You can't make up stuff this bizarre. In our version of all the infinite universes it costs more to put a guy on the subway than to give him a brand-new car for free. I also tried to find out how many gallons of fuel per passenger mile Boston's MBTA uses. Good luck with that - if you can find a source, let us know. So let's stick to the known facts . . .

1. Bostons subways and light rail run on electricity, which is mostly generated from aging coal fired plants
   
2. The subways operate at less than half capacity – sometimes less than 10% of capacity - during much of the day.
   
3. A subway car weighs 40 tons. And it's usually closer to empty than full. And you need thousands of them to move the 760,000 passengers. If each car was occupied to capacity (100 riders), for a 2-way commute, you'd need more than 4,000 subway cars. (Check my math please)

The real story though - the one not explored in the CBS report - is “how did Boston get $25 billion behind in it's subway maintenance?”

The answer may sound like a snark, but it's not: When public infrastructure is involved, there is rarely enough money budgeted for repairs and maintenance. It's not just Boston I'm condemning here. It's almost every city or state government. Bureaucracies have 2 choices –

1. Set daily fares (or KWH electric rates) high enough to cover the actual cost of maintaining competent service, or . .

2. Keep rates lower, and let things go to the point of failure, THEN plead for a bailout.

Since the bailout will ALWAYS be needed "far in the future" the guys who pick door number 2 are always off the hook. The new guys – 20 years later – inherit the billion dollar repair problems. “Our subways are a dangerous monstrosity” . . . “Another million acres of California brushland burned because we have century old high-tension wires” . . .“The city of Lahaina is destroyed. It burned to a crisp in less than an hour – both the electric wires AND the water system were grossly deficient.” . . .

$30,000 per rider! Okay . . . I'll give that a break. California and Hawaii pay the highest electric rates in the nation. The HIGHEST! In many cases DOUBLE what it costs people living in normal places. How much more would electricity in paradise cost if electric grids dating back to the Woodrow Wilson administration had been properly maintained and modernized? No wonder there are crazy high incentives to install rooftop solar. If we depend on the grid, we're doomed.

I live in Florida, but I'm not going to gloat here. Shitty mass transit is a feature (not a bug) of urban life. Even Washington DC, which built the most modern subway system in the world a few decades ago, is now castigated for spending zero to keep it nice. DC metro has the highest rate of breakdowns in the USA – worse than Boston and NY. Where I live (near Tampa, Florida) we don't actually have subways. Something about not being able to dig more 3 feet down without striking an underground river. So, while Floridians are spared the ongoing nightmare of public transit run by morons and shyster politicians (who are more concerned with banning library books) we have our own problem: Fresh water - not enough of it. Florida's ground water is all pumped out. Seawater is infiltrating in, making it undrinkable. This is due to massive population growth, failing infrastructure, and an unwillingness to charge what it costs to purchase desalinization plants and reservoirs. Florida is the state that couldn't even snuff out a few hundred invasive Burmese pythons - and now we have 100,000. Why should anyone expect that safe drinking water could be handled competently?

I'm just sayin' . . .

MBTA says it needs $24.5 billion to repair transit system - CBS Boston (cbsnews.com)

Dontcha love how the government PERMA-TAXES us on our income, our expenditures, and our property purchased (with already-taxed dollars) in order to maintain infrastructure. Then…when infrastructure needs maintenance and repairs…the moron government needs more money.

Lesson (to those not savoring the window-liscious flavor): Government taxes you, re-taxes you, taxes you a third time, assesses licensing fees, demands point-of-use user fees…and STILL demands dollars for that which it is specifically taxing you. You. Are. Being. Had.

…and the knuckle-dragging dolt citizens (as evidenced in some responses herein) are unmoved by this. Welp, those windows aren’t going to just lick themselves….

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Dontcha love how the government PERMA-TAXES us on our income, our expenditures, and our property purchased (with already-taxed dollars) in order to maintain infrastructure. Then…when infrastructure needs maintenance and repairs…the moron government needs more money.

Lesson (to those not savoring the window-liscious flavor): Government taxes you, re-taxes you, taxes you a third time, assesses licensing fees, demands point-of-use user fees…and STILL demands dollars for that which it is specifically taxing you. You. Are. Being. Had.

…and the knuckle-dragging dolt citizens (as evidenced in some responses herein) are unmoved by this. Welp, those windows aren’t going to just lick themselves….

I take it you stay off all roads and bridges, since they constantly need repair?

No?

;-)

 

[Dawg]

View attachment 76741
​

Photo above - are these guys included in the official headcount of subway riders? Or do they live here? Wait - it can be two things at once, can't it?

If you needed any more proof that government bureaucrats and politicians are too inept to do ANYTHING, check out the link at bottom. Boston's says it needs $25 BILLION (with a B) to maintain and repair its mass transit system.

This is such an astonishing number, I immediately googled “How many daily riders does the MBTA have?” The answer seems large enough – 760,000. Until you divide it into the $25 Billion which the transit bureaucracy is demanding. It works out to $30,000 PER RIDER !!! (Of course, Boston won't need $25 billion EVERY year - just until the next time repairs and maintenance get out of hand).

You can probably predict what my next Google query was. “What top rated cars can I buy for $30,000?” How about Motor Trend's 2024 “Car of the Year” - the all-new Toyota Prius. It gets 57 miles per gallon. You can't make up stuff this bizarre. In our version of all the infinite universes it costs more to put a guy on the subway than to give him a brand-new car for free. I also tried to find out how many gallons of fuel per passenger mile Boston's MBTA uses. Good luck with that - if you can find a source, let us know. So let's stick to the known facts . . .

1. Bostons subways and light rail run on electricity, which is mostly generated from aging coal fired plants
   
2. The subways operate at less than half capacity – sometimes less than 10% of capacity - during much of the day.
   
3. A subway car weighs 40 tons. And it's usually closer to empty than full. And you need thousands of them to move the 760,000 passengers. If each car was occupied to capacity (100 riders), for a 2-way commute, you'd need more than 4,000 subway cars. (Check my math please)

The real story though - the one not explored in the CBS report - is “how did Boston get $25 billion behind in it's subway maintenance?”

The answer may sound like a snark, but it's not: When public infrastructure is involved, there is rarely enough money budgeted for repairs and maintenance. It's not just Boston I'm condemning here. It's almost every city or state government. Bureaucracies have 2 choices –

1. Set daily fares (or KWH electric rates) high enough to cover the actual cost of maintaining competent service, or . .

2. Keep rates lower, and let things go to the point of failure, THEN plead for a bailout.

Since the bailout will ALWAYS be needed "far in the future" the guys who pick door number 2 are always off the hook. The new guys – 20 years later – inherit the billion dollar repair problems. “Our subways are a dangerous monstrosity” . . . “Another million acres of California brushland burned because we have century old high-tension wires” . . .“The city of Lahaina is destroyed. It burned to a crisp in less than an hour – both the electric wires AND the water system were grossly deficient.” . . .

$30,000 per rider! Okay . . . I'll give that a break. California and Hawaii pay the highest electric rates in the nation. The HIGHEST! In many cases DOUBLE what it costs people living in normal places. How much more would electricity in paradise cost if electric grids dating back to the Woodrow Wilson administration had been properly maintained and modernized? No wonder there are crazy high incentives to install rooftop solar. If we depend on the grid, we're doomed.

I live in Florida, but I'm not going to gloat here. Shitty mass transit is a feature (not a bug) of urban life. Even Washington DC, which built the most modern subway system in the world a few decades ago, is now castigated for spending zero to keep it nice. DC metro has the highest rate of breakdowns in the USA – worse than Boston and NY. Where I live (near Tampa, Florida) we don't actually have subways. Something about not being able to dig more 3 feet down without striking an underground river. So, while Floridians are spared the ongoing nightmare of public transit run by morons and shyster politicians (who are more concerned with banning library books) we have our own problem: Fresh water - not enough of it. Florida's ground water is all pumped out. Seawater is infiltrating in, making it undrinkable. This is due to massive population growth, failing infrastructure, and an unwillingness to charge what it costs to purchase desalinization plants and reservoirs. Florida is the state that couldn't even snuff out a few hundred invasive Burmese pythons - and now we have 100,000. Why should anyone expect that safe drinking water could be handled competently?

I'm just sayin' . . .

MBTA says it needs $24.5 billion to repair transit system - CBS Boston (cbsnews.com)

How many illegals in the Sanctuary city are counted in the number of riders
and now the airport is a shelter for illegals

 

[Dawg]

Dontcha love how the government PERMA-TAXES us on our income, our expenditures, and our property purchased (with already-taxed dollars) in order to maintain infrastructure. Then…when infrastructure needs maintenance and repairs…the moron government needs more money.

Lesson (to those not savoring the window-liscious flavor): Government taxes you, re-taxes you, taxes you a third time, assesses licensing fees, demands point-of-use user fees…and STILL demands dollars for that which it is specifically taxing you. You. Are. Being. Had.

…and the knuckle-dragging dolt citizens (as evidenced in some responses herein) are unmoved by this. Welp, those windows aren’t going to just lick themselves….

May be due to the knuckle-draggers don't pay taxes