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60% of Republicans believe election "was stolen from Trump"

Zam-Zam

Senator
Did the Russians hack the DNC email server?
Did the Russians hack election systems in a number of states?
Did someone spend a lot of money trying to "convince" voters the election was hacked?
It was hacked. Did they change any votes? Unknown. Did Trump encourage the Russians, even with a vague statement about their finding emails from Hillary?
Remember that it was pretty obvious that DNC emails were being released by Wiki in an attempt to help Trump.

Is it outrageous that many voters would question the outcome in 2020? What is outrageous is that Trump did. He started claiming fraud was going to happen in the summer of 2020. The lack of evidence that there was substantial fraud was ignored by Trump and his mob. Hillary Clinton conceded the 2016 election the next morning. Trump still has not done so.

You believe it was hacked, and therefore, suspect, no?

And if it was okay for you to question the outcome of that election, why is it not okay for others to question the outcome of the following election?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
You believe it was hacked, and therefore, suspect, no?

And if it was okay for you to question the outcome of that election, why is it not okay for others to question the outcome of the following election?
Unreal. No. I didn't think it was suspect. I thought the Russian attempt to interfere couldn't be evaluated for the number of votes they managed to switch from one to the other. What I have questioned is the value of the Electoral College...and the fact that Trump lost the popular vote but got the job anyway. That is a far cry from claiming that the other side fabricated fraudulent ballots or hacked election machines to change counts.

When has a candidate for office ever gone to court to overturn the election? Trump did.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Unreal. No. I didn't think it was suspect. I thought the Russian attempt to interfere couldn't be evaluated for the number of votes they managed to switch from one to the other. What I have questioned is the value of the Electoral College...and the fact that Trump lost the popular vote but got the job anyway. That is a far cry from claiming that the other side fabricated fraudulent ballots or hacked election machines to change counts.

When has a candidate for office ever gone to court to overturn the election? Trump did.
So the 2016 election was

a) Entirely legit.
b) Not legitimate.

You tell me.
 

Alinvegas

Turn Back Better
Reuters/Ipsos polling: * Fully 53% of Republicans said that Donald Trump was the "true" president while 47% said Joe Biden, who is the actual president. * Another 56% of Republicans say that the results of the 2020 election were "the result of illegal voting or election rigging." * More than 6 in 10 GOPers either "strongly" (39%) or "somewhat" (22%) agreed with the statement that the 2020 election "was stolen from Donald Trump."
And 100% of lefties think Trump was elected by the Russians.
 

JuliefromOhio

President
Supporting Member
Excuse me? Where in my statement that you quoted, did I say they were innocent? Do you need remedial help? Are the synapses in your brain on permanant misfire?
GOP leadership (and Putin) say the Jan 6 insurrectionist thugs are persecuted political prisoners. That doesn't square with your claim that they're not innocent. Get with the Trump program or they'll throw you out of the cult.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Entirely legit. Was the 2020 election entirely legit?
I don't know, either for 2016 or 2020.

How could I possibly know? I do what you and everyone else does: Take people's word for it.

A wise person once said "What you don't know, you don't know". I see no reason to pretend otherwise.

So if someone questions the legitimacy of an election, I can't honestly say they are right or wrong. I don't know.

Neither do you, of course. That's just how it is.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Who says not worrying is perfection ?
Why is worrying a flaw ?
The best solutions are often the result of worry.

Worrying about something you cannot control is a flaw. Since, by definition, you can't control, there is no point in worrying.

As for "The best solutions are often the result of worry.", I'd have to say poppycock. No one ever solved a problem by worrying about it. You have to solve it by solving it.

Worry and Guilt: The Useless Emotions

Worry and Guilt: The Useless Emotions | Psychology Today
 
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Spamature

President
Worrying about something you cannot control is a flaw. Since, by definition, you can't control, there is no point in worrying.

As for "The best solutions are often the result of worry.", I'd have to say poppycock. No one ever solved a problem by worrying about it. You have to solve it by solving it.
Really ?

Parents worry about their children.
Are you saying a parent were to have concern about their child during a complicated medical procedure they may not even understand, and that, that concern is a flaw in them ?

Because that is what worry is, concern about something and the inability to immediately allay those concerns.

That same concern or time may at some point lead to an epiphany that leads to a solution. You are trying to convince yourself that integral parts of your humanity are a flaws, and being inhuman is perfection. It like saying never be sad, because sadness is a flaw.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Really ?

Parents worry about their children.
Are you saying a parent were to have concern about their child during a complicated medical procedure they may not even understand, that's concern is a flaw in them ?
Because that is what worry is, concern about something and the inability to allay those concerns.

That same concern or time may at some point lead to an epiphany that leads to a solution. You are trying to convince yourself that integral parts of your humanity are a flaws, and being inhuman is perfection. It like saying never be sad, because sadness is a flaw.

Worrying about your kids does nothing for them.

Taking care of your kids does.

If you worry and do nothing, you accomplish nothing.

Worry accomplishes nothing.

If you want to fret, however, by all means, proceed.
 

Spamature

President
Worrying about your kids does nothing for them.

Taking care of your kids does.

If you worry and do nothing, you accomplish nothing.

Worry accomplishes nothing.

If you want to fret, however, by all means, proceed.
In the scenario I gave you.
How would the parent take care of their kid ?

Worrying is how a problem keeps its place at the forefront of your thoughts.
Otherwise, you may get distracted from finding a solution or just giving up on even looking for one.

Worry is a mental tool you have been given, not a flaw.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
In the scenario I gave you.
How would the parent take care of their kid ?

Worrying is how a problem keeps its place at the forefront of your thoughts.
Otherwise, you may get distracted from finding a solution or just giving up on even looking for one.

Worry is a mental tool you have been given, not a flaw.
Let's make it simple:


Joe has a flat tire.

Joe worries he will not be able to drive it to work tomorrow.

Joe takes no action.

Joe doesn't make it to work the next day.


Mary has a flat tire.

Mary worries she will not be able to drive it to work tomorrow.

Mary changes the tire.

Mary makes it to work the next day.


Pat has a flat tire.

Pat doesn't worry about it at all.

Pat changes the tire.

Pat makes it to work the next day.



Now, class, what have we learned?
 

Spamature

President
Let's make it simple:


Joe has a flat tire.

Joe worries he will not be able to drive it to work tomorrow.

Joe takes no action.

Joe doesn't make it to work the next day.


Mary has a flat tire.

Mary worries she will not be able to drive it to work tomorrow.

Mary changes the tire.

Mary makes it to work the next day.


Pat has a flat tire.

Pat doesn't worry about it at all.

Pat changes the tire.

Pat makes it to work the next day.



Now, class, what have we learned?
That Joe's spare is flat and that tomorrow and that is his payday.
Unless he gets to work and gets paid, he can't fix his tire.
He can't start to work to fix his tire, unless he gets to work and gets paid.

We learned that everyone's situation is different.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I don't know, either for 2016 or 2020.

How could I possibly know? I do what you and everyone else does: Take people's word for it.

A wise person once said "What you don't know, you don't know". I see no reason to pretend otherwise.

So if someone questions the legitimacy of an election, I can't honestly say they are right or wrong. I don't know.

Neither do you, of course. That's just how it is.
you are wrong. I've looked at the evidence from both sides and see that Trump's claims are laughable.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Let's make it simple:


Joe has a flat tire.

Joe worries he will not be able to drive it to work tomorrow.

Joe takes no action.

Joe doesn't make it to work the next day.


Mary has a flat tire.

Mary worries she will not be able to drive it to work tomorrow.

Mary changes the tire.

Mary makes it to work the next day.


Pat has a flat tire.

Pat doesn't worry about it at all.

Pat changes the tire.

Pat makes it to work the next day.



Now, class, what have we learned?
that none of them have AAA.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
you are wrong. I've looked at the evidence from both sides and see that Trump's claims are laughable.
They may be. Still, that's an opinion, and unless you have counted all the votes yourself, you don't truly know. It's not possible for you to know.

You can make peace with that, or rage against it, or live in denial. It won't change the fact, however, that you're taking this, and every other election result, on faith.
 

JuliefromOhio

President
Supporting Member
They may be. Still, that's an opinion, and unless you have counted all the votes yourself, you don't truly know. It's not possible for you to know.

You can make peace with that, or rage against it, or live in denial. It won't change the fact, however, that you're taking this, and every other election result, on faith.
In December, 2020, Trump's Attorney General William Barr declared the U.S. Justice Department had uncovered no evidence of widespread voter fraud that could change the outcome of the 2020 election. Prior to that, every Secretary of State, Republican and Democrat alike certified their state's election results. All the judges, even Trump appointed ones, ruled against Trump's 60 some court challenges claiming election fraud. We've since learned that Trump tried to force his appointees at the DOJ to announce that the election was corrupt. They refused to lie for him. AG Barr didn't fall for Trump's con either and resigned his position later that month. Trump wants you to believe that he will be reinstated as president on Aug 13, 2021. Don't fall for the con.
 
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