78% say school teachers aren’t paid enough

[reason10]

Teachers are kids who never left school

That's really not fair. And this is REASON TEN who is saying that. It's not fair to paint EVERY single person in a profession with one brush stroke.

I work in the system. I've seen the problem. It's not what you think.

 

[Winston]

That's really not fair. And this is REASON TEN who is saying that. It's not fair to paint EVERY single person in a profession with one brush stroke.

I work in the system. I've seen the problem. It's not what you think.

It's also not fair that teachers mock and fail every student in a Trump shirt

So [Unwelcome language removed] the slimes, they are way overpaid

 

[reason10]

Teachers are kids who never left school

Not all teachers. Not even most teachers.
Such a sweeping generalization is not worthy of you as a conservative. I expected better. You're smarter than these liberals.

There are teachers who knew they wanted to be teachers early in high school. They got the grades, graduated high school, went to college to get the academic credentials and then went to work as teachers. It's hard for me to attach any kind of negative connotation to these people.

 

[reason10]

It's also not fair that teachers mock and fail every student in a Trump shirt

So [Unwelcome language removed] the slimes, they are way overpaid

Truthfully, I don't discount that happening in other counties. I can even see some liberal teachers being such [Unwelcome language removed]. It hasn't happened for me in either Charlotte or Lee Counties.

Truthfully, ANY teacher who mocks at MAGA hat wearer should get the same treatment as any teacher using the N word in class. Bigotry is bigotry, regardless of how you slice it.

 

[Winston]

Not all teachers. Not even most teachers.
Such a sweeping generalization is not worthy of you as a conservative. I expected better. You're smarter than these liberals.

There are teachers who knew they wanted to be teachers early in high school. They got the grades, graduated high school, went to college to get the academic credentials and then went to work as teachers. It's hard for me to attach any kind of negative connotation to these people.

If I had a quarter for every kid on fox news that was abused or expelled because they were a trump shirt or hat I would have too much money. Not to mention the teachers that wear the trump hat and get fired. American kids are being abused and brainwashed. Now they are telling 8th graders to get abortions

I exaggerated not at all, very unfortunately

 

[Winston]

Truthfully, I don't discount that happening in other counties. I can even see some liberal teachers being such [Unwelcome language removed]. It hasn't happened for me in either Charlotte or Lee Counties.

Truthfully, ANY teacher who mocks at MAGA hat wearer should get the same treatment as any teacher using the N word in class. Bigotry is bigotry, regardless of how you slice it.

Counties, this is happening in every state and school and college

 

[reason10]

Counties, this is happening in every state and school and college

Not every state, or school. I'm a witness. It isn't happening at most Charlotte County schools. Hell, the kids here LOVE Trump

 

[Winston]

Not every state, or school. I'm a witness. It isn't happening at most Charlotte County schools. Hell, the kids here LOVE Trump

Conservatives are not even allowed on college campuses, if they are there they hide

http://americanactionnews.com/articles/teacher-fired-for-supporting-trump

 

[reason10]

Conservatives are not even allowed on college campuses, if they are there they hide

http://americanactionnews.com/articles/teacher-fired-for-supporting-trump

Okay, my friend. College campuses are a different animal from public schools. When it comes to the lack of First Amendment protections on college campuses, I'm with you 200 percent.

Just ask Ben Shapiro about how open minded some of these left wing colleges are.

Just between you and me, I'd cut off ALL goddam taxpayer funds to ALL colleges in America. Let them sell their product based on the free market.

 

[Winston]

Okay, my friend. College campuses are a different animal from public schools. When it comes to the lack of First Amendment protections on college campuses, I'm with you 200 percent.

Just ask Ben Shapiro about how open minded some of these left wing colleges are.

Just between you and me, I'd cut off ALL goddam taxpayer funds to ALL colleges in America. Let them sell their product based on the free market.

The professors and the teachers all studied socialism at the same schools to get where they are

 

[reason10]

The professors and the teachers all studied socialism at the same schools to get where they are

Not every one. My college (which was a small university) did NOT include socialist indoctrination. Most colleges have studies of socialism but not necessarily indoctrination in to the philosophy. I do admit some do.

And remember this: NONE of what a teacher learns in college is at all relevant to the teaching job. A college degree doesn't mean you know how to do something. (Except at the Masters and Doctorate levels, theoretically) It just means you are able to learn the job. And truthfully, the real learning in the teacher's job starts on the first day of class.

The job is impossible to learn or master in a college classroom. One can only learn it on the job in the real world.

 

[Winston]

Not every one. My college (which was a small university) did NOT include socialist indoctrination. Most colleges have studies of socialism but not necessarily indoctrination in to the philosophy. I do admit some do.

And remember this: NONE of what a teacher learns in college is at all relevant to the teaching job. A college degree doesn't mean you know how to do something. (Except at the Masters and Doctorate levels, theoretically) It just means you are able to learn the job. And truthfully, the real learning in the teacher's job starts on the first day of class.

The job is impossible to learn or master in a college classroom. One can only learn it on the job in the real world.

I hate to inform you, but you are lost. The only good socialist is a dead socialist as socialism is just communism in waiting. They teach at literally every college in America, even the private religious ones.

Open your eyes

 

[EatTheRich]

I was referring to the average. This is a ridiculous argument. If there is one good teacher, then they all get a pass? Nonsense

Problem is, there is no such thing as the average. I'm not suggesting anyone gets a pass. I'm suggesting those who EARN the raises should get the raises.

They all work for the same union that protects bad teachers and is in it for themselves.

It ISN'T the same union. You need to know (and I understand that you didn't know this because a lot of people don't) that there are MANY unions in the country, in each state. In Florida, the unions have very little leverage because our state statute prohibit state employees from striking. The local unions here don't provide much more than group health insurance, life insurance and occasional legal help if there is a dispute about improper conduct on the part of the teacher.

And they get tons of time off that the rest of us don't get. Factually, salaries aren't bad for their college performance (on average) and they are pretty good when you factor in the massive time off. If they work summers, they get paid extra

Teachers work an average of 16 hour days. (Think you could do the same without bitching about more money?) They don't punch a time clock. They spend a lot of home time grading papers and preparing lesson plans. The state or those [Unwelcome language removed] in Washington will mandate some bullshit political correctness mandate that will drag teachers out of class and they have to spend even more time creating lesson plans for subs like me to come in and take their class while they go through the bullshit. I've seen it up close and personal. It's a reason why I have a job.

And yet teachers are delivering a shitty product. Worst performance for the most expensive government schools in the west. That the people in the classrooms bear no responsibility for the terrible performance of government schools is patently absurd.

It isn't the teachers who are delivering the shitty product. It is the system. I'll even go one further. (And remember, I'm a RUSH [Unwelcome language removed] LIMBAUGH CONSERVATIVE so I should have a LITTLE street cred on this. If the problem was the teachers, you know goddam well I'd say it.) The product is not determined by the teachers. They don't write the textbooks nor do they even have the power to decide on the textbooks. They are GIVEN the textbooks and a million and a half dumbass mandates from ass wipes who NEVER have had to stand before a class to teach in their entire lives.) They are told what to do and then the goalposts are moved, almost on a daily basis.

(Dude. YOU KNOW ME. I wouldn't be saying this if I hadn't seen it with my own damned eyes.)

The teacher union is leftist, the teachers are disproportionately leftist, the government administrators are disproportionately leftist. Deal with your own issue

What else is new? What union ISN'T leftist? That doesn't change the fact that Florida is a right to work state, which means a person cannot be legally prohibited from getting a job without being in a union, which I AGREE with, wholeheartedly. Yes, government administrators are leftist. (HEY, FELLOW CONSERVATIVE. I THINK YOU HAVE FINALLY SWERVED INTO THE REAL PROBLEM AND THE REAL ISSUE) It isn't the teachers who are [Unwelcome language removed] up the system. They don't have the power.

It's the goddam school boards at the county, state, and federal levels.

OK, then fix it, then we can talk.

Want me to fix it? King RX has a few mandates he would put out: 1. Get rid of the Department of Education. Block grant its funding to the states. 2. Pass a federal law that teachers can suspend or expel students who commit acts of violence. (ESE students get a pass on this.) 3. Recognize that ANY change or improvements in education will be accomplish ONLY at the county level because that's where most of the control and most of the funding comes from. 4. Enforce the country's immigration laws and REQUIRE that all public students be as fluent in English as kids born here. Or do you think it's fair to hold a teacher accountable for the grades of a student who doesn't speak English at all?

I agree with that, but it isn't the feds who are preventing accountability. It's the leftist bureaucrats and the Union of Failed Teachers

There is no such union. And the feds are doing the most damage. They are giving the impression that the answer comes from Washington. And this only creates a bureaucrat class of hacks who draw huge salaries and create useless extra work loads for teachers who barely have time to do their jobs right now.

Maybe some federal mandates are bad. But some ... desegregation, disability access, or spending a certain minimum ... are necessary. And the fact that human nature is pretty much the same everywhere tells me that the students and their families are not the problem ... the economic and social pressures that cknstrain them are.

 

[reason10]

I hate to inform you, but you are lost. The only good socialist is a dead socialist as socialism is just communism in waiting. They teach at literally every college in America, even the private religious ones.

Open your eyes

Mine didn't. This was in 1995. I studied Paralegal Studies and Business Administration/Marketing. There was ZERO political indoctrination.

 

[reason10]

Maybe some federal mandates are bad. But some ... desegregation, disability access, or spending a certain minimum ... are necessary.

Desegregation has been illegal for a long time. The Americans with Disabilities Act took care of disability issues decades ago. I'm talking about the dumbass mandates vomited from the Beltway by hacks who have never actually stood before a class and taught. They just get a wild hair and put out some shit to justify their salaries. And it takes the teacher away from the class. It give me a job, because my services are in demand whenever some [Unwelcome language removed] hack decides to spread his/her/its bullshit.

And the fact that human nature is pretty much the same everywhere tells me that the students and their families are not the problem ... the economic and social pressures that cknstrain them are.

These are the reasons why I believe that you are not a human being, but are some kind of a bot that has no knowledge but is programmed to put out all kinds of bullshit just to piss off taxpayers.

Want some examples, Einstein?

A year ago at a Florida high school (where I subbed for a while) an ESE student attacked a cop. Yes, the little shit was put in jail. The school wanted to suspend the little monster. His mother threatened legal action because her precious little hellhound had that ESE classification. So the school had to let this piece of shit back in, where he proceeded to bully students all around him.

I would see kids with Smartphones showing up without a pencil to do their work. GIVE ME A [Unwelcome language removed] BREAK. These little shits had $150 designer running shoes but couldn't afford a pencil. Economic and social pressures? Really? Are you THAT stupid?

At an Elementary School, one little mouthy 5th grader was making life a living hell for all the teachers around him. The school finally disciplined him and his mother raised so much hell that the school district wound up having to give her a $10,000 settlement. These are entitled little pieces of shit with entitled pieces of shit for parents. And these are the time bombs about to go off in society when they grow up, (unless we get lucky and they shoot each other while still young.)

And teachers are somehow to blame...HOW? ??????

 

[Winston]

Mine didn't. This was in 1995. I studied Paralegal Studies and Business Administration/Marketing. There was ZERO political indoctrination.

How many times did you wear a Trump hat to school?

 

[reason10]

How many times did you wear a Trump hat to school?

Truthfully, I try to be a professional when I work at a school. I leave ALL my politics in the car. And so do about 91 percent of all the teachers.

When I taught English at a small community college in Orlando, I deliberately withheld my political views from the class when it came time for them to write an essay. I told them to write from the heart and not worry about what I thought, that their political views would not affect their grade in the slightest.

It's a shame modern day professors at these expensive diploma mills can't be as professional.

 

[Winston]

Truthfully, I try to be a professional when I work at a school. I leave ALL my politics in the car. And so do about 91 percent of all the teachers.

When I taught English at a small community college in Orlando, I deliberately withheld my political views from the class when it came time for them to write an essay. I told them to write from the heart and not worry about what I thought, that their political views would not affect their grade in the slightest.

It's a shame modern day professors at these expensive diploma mills can't be as professional.

Dude, this is not about you. Wear your Trump hat to Berkely for a week, you will be bloody in an hour, and that's at the hands of the professors not the students. If you do not know that this is happening you are delusional and as such are overpaid yourself. In fact the only way a person can be dumb enough to deny this is because they are part of it.

 

[kaz]

Yep. Teachers are below average performers in college

I don't know where you get that myth from, but I'm afraid you have ZERO evidence to back that up with. I'm a free market conservative, and I'm calling BULLSHIT on that remark. There's NO evidence that people who aspire to be public school teachers are below average performers in college. That's the sort of totally IGNORANT remark I'd expect from the forum liberals. I always thought conservatives were smarter than that

I'm a libertarian, so if you mean fiscal conservative then I'm that. But I'm consistent, I want my government out of my wallet AND my bedroom and I want it out of everyone else's crap.

I'm curious how you know it's not true since you just said you have no evidence either way. Also, why do we need to raise wages to get better teachers if teachers are already highly educated and got good grades as you claim?

They get the summer off and endless days off spread through the year. When you adjust their salaries for the time off, their pay is actually pretty good. And our schools are terrible.

In Lee County, Florida, teachers are leaving the profession because their salaries do not permit them to pay for the increasing cost of housing in this area. So suggesting teacher pay is actually pretty good ignores reality. These people are just like everyone else. They have bills to pay. A lot of them work odd jobs in the summer.

OK, that's a nonsense argument and fails basic logic. I said that their pay isn't bad when factored for all the time off they get. You came back with an anecdotal argument that teachers in one county can't afford to pay the cost of living. That doesn't contradict my point, Holmes. Why would we pay teachers more money because they want it? If they can't live on a less than full year round job, then yes, they need to get a full time year round job

Before we talk raises, they need to help figure out why our schools are failing so badly and solve it.
Truthfully, the market system for teacher raises is pretty fucked up, at least in the state of Florida. (And we have some of the most brilliant people in the country so I'm not even going to mention the idiot public school grads in other states.

From experience, I have determined (I work as a substitute teacher for several counties in Florida) that the best system of raises is an automatic raise every year. I say that because there is NOT SINGLE COLLEGE PROGRAM that will prepare a teacher for the job. Put a Harvard doctorate in the classroom and that person is USELESS in his/her/its first few years on the job. The ONLY way to train a teacher is on the job experience. There are some Florida counties who recognize this and have automatic increases in pay every year. A teacher who has had to stand before the class for four years is worth more than a newbie. But there are several counties here who will let a teacher go for several years without any corresponding raises in pay. And make no mistake: ALL teacher salaries are determined ONLY at the county level.

If you want to know why public schools are failing, I have the single most important answer, (and this is something I not only have been told by other teachers, but I HAVE EXPERIENCED ON MY OWN.) The problem is the parents, at least 90 percent. Yes, I admit there ARE some bad teachers, just like there are bad employees in all professions. But the problem in education is the I-DON'T-GIVE-A-RATS-ASS attitude of pretty much 95 percent of all the parents out there who are vomiting their hellhounds into the public school system. I've got horror stories that will make you shit yourself.

Parents will endanger other parents' kids by keeping their little monsters in the classroom by threatening to sue the school board based on some bullshit issue of ESE. I've watched one kid actually ATTACK a police officer on campus, get thrown in jail and then NOT get suspended because his shit for brains mother played the ESE card.

I agree with you on that parents are a problem. In Connecticut, we lived in a district with one of the top public schools in the country. It was rare in parent teacher conferences that a kid didn't have two parents there. Even if they were divorced. Parents are huge.

But you're still not addressing the reality that the teachers are the ones in the classroom and it's ridiculous that you're absolving them of all responsibility. We have the most expensive schools in the world, and the worst performing in the west. The LAST thing we should be talking about now is spending even MORE money on it. Pure bilch.

You need a better story than it's the parents thought, the teachers have nothing to do with it, and we need to pay the teachers more. That makes no sense at all.

BTW, if you don't quote me somehow, then I may not see your reply. I only saw this when someone agreed with my post above

 

[kaz]

Dude, this is not about you. Wear your Trump hat to Berkely for a week, you will be bloody in an hour, and that's at the hands of the professors not the students. If you do not know that this is happening you are delusional and as such are overpaid yourself. In fact the only way a person can be dumb enough to deny this is because they are part of it.

My daughter goes to Berkeley, and she keeps her politics completely hidden. You're exactly right. There is no liberal tolerance coming from the left