78% say school teachers aren’t paid enough

[kaz]

At that college, NONE of the adjunct professors (and we all were adjunct) brought our politics in the classroom. There just wasn't time..

OK, fair enough. There are leftist professors who don't wear their politics on their sleeve.

A better way I could have phrased it would be that of the professors/teachers who wear their politics on their sleeve in their classrooms, almost all of them are leftists. Conservatives tend to feel it's not their place to preach politics in schools. It's not just that they use the word "Democrat" directly, their homework assignments are skewed to leftist propaganda

 

[reason10]

You clearly feel that you are entitled, you may also feel free to find a new job if you so choose.
That should be easy if you are as skilled as you say

I don't understand that response. I have a job now because two counties are treating teachers like shit. Why would I want to get a new job? I like this line of work.

 

[kaz]

I don't understand that response. I have a job now because two counties are treating teachers like shit. Why would I want to get a new job? I like this line of work.

Well, you keep arguing that teachers have little to do with the quality of teaching in the classroom. When we already are getting a terrible product for top end prices, why would we pay them more when they have so little to do with it?

According to you, if we spend more money, it should be on better textbooks.

And don't say that isn't what you said, it is. You really need a more consistent story than teachers aren't responsible for anything bad happening, but start by paying them more. That makes no sense.

If the person in the classroom with the kids isn't the problem, then they aren't the solution either.

And I find that totally dubious as well. How can a good teacher not teach even with a mediocre text book? My areas are business/finance and IT. I could totally teach people a ton even using a mediocre textbook. I'd use it for what it's worth and give them additional reading/research and papers based on other sources

 

[Winston]

I don't understand that response. I have a job now because two counties are treating teachers like shit. Why would I want to get a new job? I like this line of work.

You might also like washing dishes, but if you need more money you would get a real job.

You ever try using your high intellect to invest some savings being that you are teaching the next generation?

Stop crying, you are overpaid as it is

 

[reason10]

You might also like washing dishes, but if you need more money you would get a real job.

Dishwashers get a raise every 90 days. The restaurant thinks they are valuable enough to give raises to so the cooks, the wait staff and the management doesn't have to wash dishes. They are treated better than teachers. Bottom line, if a dishwasher studies to be a cook, he/she gets a raise.

All jobs are real jobs. (Except, maybe, writing for MSNBC, I suppose). There's no shame in good hard work at every level. Every job has a value.

You ever try using your high intellect to invest some savings being that you are teaching the next generation?

I wasn't using myself as an example. I'm not a teacher. I'm happy in my line of work. I only teach based on the lesson plans of the teachers I'm subbing for.

Stop crying, you are overpaid as it is.

I make a standard hourly rate in two counties for substitute teaching. I show up on time. I handle the class according to the lesson plans. I keep the peace and maintain the safety of the students. Tell me again why I'm overpaid. How much of that daily salary of around $95 am I overpaid?

Then tell me how regular teachers (a lot of which in Lee County who can't even afford housing) are overpaid.

Let's put this a different way: These are teachers whose salaries are determined at the county level by commissioners who have to answer to pissed off property tax payers. These taxpayers demand the most results for the least amount of money. That's the ONLY reason why teacher pay is as low as it is today. That's why there are no raises, even when the product improves. Teaching is the ONLY profession where an increase in productivity is not rewarded by an increase in pay.

Tell me again how much these teachers are overpaid, how many dollars are paid too much, and WHY they are overpaid.

And remember, I've only seen in two counties a couple of examples of teachers pushing a political agenda in the classroom. Most of the teachers barely have time to get the lesson plans to the students.

 

[reason10]

Well, you keep arguing that teachers have little to do with the quality of teaching in the classroom.

Nope. I never said that. As far as the quality of teaching in the classroom, the PARENTS have an equal share in the preparation. If they do not discipline their little monsters and if the school district does not do something about the little bastards who disrupt class on a daily basis (AND I'VE SEEN THIS QUITE A BIT), the greatest teachers in the world cannot do their jobs.

When we already are getting a terrible product for top end prices, why would we pay them more when they have so little to do with it?

Oh, it's FAR from top end prices, if you track the history of teacher pay and what it used to be able to buy. Long before the welfare state began taking such a bite out of federal, state and local budgets, teachers often could buy and pay for homes in a relatively short period of time.

What I'm saying is, if a teacher is required to take on more and more tasks then a corresponding raise in pay should accompany that increase in tasks. (Yes, the teaching profession is FAR more than just standing in front of the class, lecturing, giving tests and grading papers.) The school gets more money when it crams more students into the classroom. The teacher (who is the ONLY person who has to work harder because of that) is also the ONLY person who does not get extra money for more brats in the classroom.

According to you, if we spend more money, it should be on better textbooks.

What I'm about to say will probably piss off a few conservatives here. (What else is new? I pretty much piss off everybody here for one reason or another.) In my experience, each school is almost a separate country when it comes to the style in which it presents the education. The books differ, school to school. In the same county in Florida (where the news has attempted to say our new governor has gotten rid of Common Core) I still see some Common Core textbooks here and there. Comparing them to other books, I don't see that much of a difference, (except for the Chinese Fire Drill known as Common Core Math.)

There are different reasons to spend money at different schools. Some high schools have gym equipment that is falling apart. Some middle schools (and three weeks ago I subbed at one) don't have enough rooms for the massive influx of students coming in. These schools likewise do not have enough teachers.

I'm NOT saying that you need to give all teachers a raise and somehow EVERY kid in school will be so well educated that he/she will get a scholarship from Harvard. All I'm saying is, if you demand more from a teacher, PAY FOR IT, same as you would any other commodity.

And don't say that isn't what you said, it is. You really need a more consistent story than teachers aren't responsible for anything bad happening, but start by paying them more. That makes no sense.

Oh, I NEVER said teachers aren't responsible for anything bad happen. I NEVER put out such an absolute statement. There are some teachers (and I've seen them) who are incompetent, like in any other line of work. There are some teachers who let fights get started and not stop them. I subbed for one teacher who was suspended for punching another student. So NO, I've never claimed that ALL teachers are perfect. And I'm not right now suggesting a blanket raise for all teachers just to be throwing money at the problem. (Which Congress does on a daily basis, anyway.)

I'm not even suggesting pay teachers more so they can afford more stuff, better houses, better cars, vacations. I don't subscribe to that entitlement bullshit, and you know it.

What I'm saying is, if you ask more of a teacher then PAY FOR IT.

If the person in the classroom with the kids isn't the problem, then they aren't the solution either.

The teacher in the classroom does not have 100 percent control over those animals. The teacher didn't raise them. The teacher only gets 25-35 young skulls full of mush in front of her/him. The teacher has a task to fulfill. If a few of those animals get rowdy and disrupt the class because their parents are [Unwelcome language removed] idiots who don't know how to raise kids, and if the school district will not allow that teacher to properly punish and discipline those brats, you're going to have the results you have. The teacher has no say in it. And if a few bad apples prevent the rest of the class from getting the public school education that property owners are paying, that's not the teacher's fault.

And I find that totally dubious as well. How can a good teacher not teach even with a mediocre text book? My areas are business/finance and IT. I could totally teach people a ton even using a mediocre textbook. I'd use it for what it's worth and give them additional reading/research and papers based on other sources.

Most of the teachers I sub for, (those who I'm able to talk to) have zero complaints about the textbooks. They are able to create lesson plans based on the books and on what the state and federal government requires. The textbooks aren't the problem.


And I don't know WHY you keep changing the subject and putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said all teachers deserve a raise and will automatically start producing geniuses from their classrooms.

ALL I said was, if you add more and more tasks to a teacher's agenda, PAY FOR IT, just like a fcking McDonalds would do with its dumbest burger flippers. That's ALL I'm saying. PAY for what you get.

 

[Winston]

You might also like washing dishes, but if you need more money you would get a real job.

Dishwashers get a raise every 90 days. The restaurant thinks they are valuable enough to give raises to so the cooks, the wait staff and the management doesn't have to wash dishes. They are treated better than teachers. Bottom line, if a dishwasher studies to be a cook, he/she gets a raise.

All jobs are real jobs. (Except, maybe, writing for MSNBC, I suppose). There's no shame in good hard work at every level. Every job has a value.

You ever try using your high intellect to invest some savings being that you are teaching the next generation?

I wasn't using myself as an example. I'm not a teacher. I'm happy in my line of work. I only teach based on the lesson plans of the teachers I'm subbing for.

Stop crying, you are overpaid as it is.

I make a standard hourly rate in two counties for substitute teaching. I show up on time. I handle the class according to the lesson plans. I keep the peace and maintain the safety of the students. Tell me again why I'm overpaid. How much of that daily salary of around $95 am I overpaid?

Then tell me how regular teachers (a lot of which in Lee County who can't even afford housing) are overpaid.

Let's put this a different way: These are teachers whose salaries are determined at the county level by commissioners who have to answer to pissed off property tax payers. These taxpayers demand the most results for the least amount of money. That's the ONLY reason why teacher pay is as low as it is today. That's why there are no raises, even when the product improves. Teaching is the ONLY profession where an increase in productivity is not rewarded by an increase in pay.

Tell me again how much these teachers are overpaid, how many dollars are paid too much, and WHY they are overpaid.

And remember, I've only seen in two counties a couple of examples of teachers pushing a political agenda in the classroom. Most of the teachers barely have time to get the lesson plans to the students.

Dishwashers get fired or leave their job more frequently than every 90 days

Glad you aren't teaching my kids

Have you tried making extra money at etrade

 

[Winston]

Well, you keep arguing that teachers have little to do with the quality of teaching in the classroom.

Nope. I never said that. As far as the quality of teaching in the classroom, the PARENTS have an equal share in the preparation. If they do not discipline their little monsters and if the school district does not do something about the little bastards who disrupt class on a daily basis (AND I'VE SEEN THIS QUITE A BIT), the greatest teachers in the world cannot do their jobs.

When we already are getting a terrible product for top end prices, why would we pay them more when they have so little to do with it?

Oh, it's FAR from top end prices, if you track the history of teacher pay and what it used to be able to buy. Long before the welfare state began taking such a bite out of federal, state and local budgets, teachers often could buy and pay for homes in a relatively short period of time.

What I'm saying is, if a teacher is required to take on more and more tasks then a corresponding raise in pay should accompany that increase in tasks. (Yes, the teaching profession is FAR more than just standing in front of the class, lecturing, giving tests and grading papers.) The school gets more money when it crams more students into the classroom. The teacher (who is the ONLY person who has to work harder because of that) is also the ONLY person who does not get extra money for more brats in the classroom.

According to you, if we spend more money, it should be on better textbooks.

What I'm about to say will probably piss off a few conservatives here. (What else is new? I pretty much piss off everybody here for one reason or another.) In my experience, each school is almost a separate country when it comes to the style in which it presents the education. The books differ, school to school. In the same county in Florida (where the news has attempted to say our new governor has gotten rid of Common Core) I still see some Common Core textbooks here and there. Comparing them to other books, I don't see that much of a difference, (except for the Chinese Fire Drill known as Common Core Math.)

There are different reasons to spend money at different schools. Some high schools have gym equipment that is falling apart. Some middle schools (and three weeks ago I subbed at one) don't have enough rooms for the massive influx of students coming in. These schools likewise do not have enough teachers.

I'm NOT saying that you need to give all teachers a raise and somehow EVERY kid in school will be so well educated that he/she will get a scholarship from Harvard. All I'm saying is, if you demand more from a teacher, PAY FOR IT, same as you would any other commodity.

And don't say that isn't what you said, it is. You really need a more consistent story than teachers aren't responsible for anything bad happening, but start by paying them more. That makes no sense.

Oh, I NEVER said teachers aren't responsible for anything bad happen. I NEVER put out such an absolute statement. There are some teachers (and I've seen them) who are incompetent, like in any other line of work. There are some teachers who let fights get started and not stop them. I subbed for one teacher who was suspended for punching another student. So NO, I've never claimed that ALL teachers are perfect. And I'm not right now suggesting a blanket raise for all teachers just to be throwing money at the problem. (Which Congress does on a daily basis, anyway.)

I'm not even suggesting pay teachers more so they can afford more stuff, better houses, better cars, vacations. I don't subscribe to that entitlement bullshit, and you know it.

What I'm saying is, if you ask more of a teacher then PAY FOR IT.

If the person in the classroom with the kids isn't the problem, then they aren't the solution either.

The teacher in the classroom does not have 100 percent control over those animals. The teacher didn't raise them. The teacher only gets 25-35 young skulls full of mush in front of her/him. The teacher has a task to fulfill. If a few of those animals get rowdy and disrupt the class because their parents are [Unwelcome language removed] idiots who don't know how to raise kids, and if the school district will not allow that teacher to properly punish and discipline those brats, you're going to have the results you have. The teacher has no say in it. And if a few bad apples prevent the rest of the class from getting the public school education that property owners are paying, that's not the teacher's fault.

And I find that totally dubious as well. How can a good teacher not teach even with a mediocre text book? My areas are business/finance and IT. I could totally teach people a ton even using a mediocre textbook. I'd use it for what it's worth and give them additional reading/research and papers based on other sources.

Most of the teachers I sub for, (those who I'm able to talk to) have zero complaints about the textbooks. They are able to create lesson plans based on the books and on what the state and federal government requires. The textbooks aren't the problem.


And I don't know WHY you keep changing the subject and putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said all teachers deserve a raise and will automatically start producing geniuses from their classrooms.

ALL I said was, if you add more and more tasks to a teacher's agenda, PAY FOR IT, just like a fcking McDonalds would do with its dumbest burger flippers. That's ALL I'm saying. PAY for what you get.

How exactly will crying here help you?

 

[reason10]

How exactly will crying here help you?

Here's something you need to understand, as well as the other independent thinkers here at this forum (otherwise known as conservatives):

I'm not speaking for the ENTIRE teaching profession. It might be as you suggest; spoiled rotten teachers who don't do shit and are demanding more money for the same shit. I

I'm only speaking for MY situation, which is two reasonably conservative counties in the magnificent RED state of Florida. I'm only speaking from EXPERIENCE. I'm not reading teacher's union bullshit from a blog. Yes, there are teachers unions in those two counties and they have very little power because in the state of Florida it is illegal for a government employee to strike. About the only good the unions do is help create large enough pools of employees to get deals on group health and life insurance, and also to provide legal representation if some bratty kid tries to ruin a teacher's career with some false claim.

HERE, (and my dear Winston, it's not even every county in Florida. Seminole County, with it's vast amount of real estate wealth, there are automatic raises in teacher pay every year for the first 20 years. I've seen the docs.) in Charlotte and Lee Counties, teachers are getting extra work load without a corresponding increase in pay. I think that is wrong. If you're a fair minded man, you'd think it is wrong too.

And FORGET looking at education from a national point of view. That's what the SWAMP people want you to do. Lump everyone under ONE label so politicians can pontificate on the issue and use it to get elected. Education is a LOCAL COUNTY ENTERPRISE.

 

[reason10]

Dishwashers get fired or leave their job more frequently than every 90 days.

Actually, that's very good news. It means the Trump economic miracle is providing a lot more good paying jobs. There is upward mobility. And for that reason, restaurants are going to have to increase dishwasher salaries in order to have people doing that job.

Glad you aren't teaching my kids.

I told you before. I'm not a teacher. If you have kids in either Charlotte or Lee County public schools, there may be a possibility that their teacher will need to hire me as a sub. I'll go in the classroom, follow the lesson plan to the letter and guarantee each child's safety. Nothing more.

Have you tried making extra money at etrade.

While I would like to make more money than I'm making now (who wouldn't?) I'm not complaining about money. While teachers are getting ass fucked in the pay market, my money and my job pretty much stays the same. I'm happy with it. I'm not complaining. I'm just giving you the facts about teacher pay, based on my first hand experience on the subject.

eTrade is a skill like any other. Requires a lot of study and a lot of balls to take risks.

Marijuana companies have been flooding my email box with all kinds of offers. I've watched Tilray go from a little over $70 a share in March to about $40 a share today. How'd you like to have bought 20,000 shares of that company, huh?

 

[Winston]

Here's something you need to understand, as well as the other independent thinkers here at this forum (otherwise known as conservatives):

I'm not speaking for the ENTIRE teaching profession. It might be as you suggest; spoiled rotten teachers who don't do shit and are demanding more money for the same shit. I

I'm only speaking for MY situation, which is two reasonably conservative counties in the magnificent RED state of Florida. I'm only speaking from EXPERIENCE. I'm not reading teacher's union bullshit from a blog. Yes, there are teachers unions in those two counties and they have very little power because in the state of Florida it is illegal for a government employee to strike. About the only good the unions do is help create large enough pools of employees to get deals on group health and life insurance, and also to provide legal representation if some bratty kid tries to ruin a teacher's career with some false claim.

HERE, (and my dear Winston, it's not even every county in Florida. Seminole County, with it's vast amount of real estate wealth, there are automatic raises in teacher pay every year for the first 20 years. I've seen the docs.) in Charlotte and Lee Counties, teachers are getting extra work load without a corresponding increase in pay. I think that is wrong. If you're a fair minded man, you'd think it is wrong too.

And FORGET looking at education from a national point of view. That's what the SWAMP people want you to do. Lump everyone under ONE label so politicians can pontificate on the issue and use it to get elected. Education is a LOCAL COUNTY ENTERPRISE.

Like I said open a fidelity brokerage account and stop telling people how much you deserve and show them what you really are.

Or better yet get a job as the dishwasher you feel has such a great job

 

[reason10]

Like I said open a fidelity brokerage account and stop telling people how much you deserve and show them what you really are.

Or better yet get a job as the dishwasher you feel has such a great job

You apparently have ESE reading skills. I'm not complaining about how much I deserve. I'm happy with my pay. The job stays the same. What I INFORMING you and the rest of the apparently uninformed public is the fact that in two counties in Florida teachers are being loaded down with extra work without extra pay to go along with it. They aren't even getting overtime pay.

 

[Winston]

You apparently have ESE reading skills. I'm not complaining about how much I deserve. I'm happy with my pay. The job stays the same. What I INFORMING you and the rest of the apparently uninformed public is the fact that in two counties in Florida teachers are being loaded down with extra work without extra pay to go along with it. They aren't even getting overtime pay.

So quit and become the dishwasher that you say is so great.

 

[reason10]

So quit and become the dishwasher that you say is so great.

You DO have barely ESE skills.

 

[voyager]

Lotteries come into being saying "it's for the children"... well, not so much.