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Capitalism's massive death toll

EatTheRich

President
What wars have been fought in the name of Capitalism?
WWII
WWI
Vietnam War
Korean War
Afghanistan War
Many others

What populaces have been ravished in that name?
Native Americans
Europe’s Jews
Africans
Irish
And the list goes on.

The USSR did a TON in the name of communism.

The "Red Terror" where the "Cheka" (aka political police) executed tens of thousands of what the state branded as "enemies of the people". Yes, executing political enemies and clergymen in broad daylight for not supporting the government.[/QUOTE]

During a civil war instituted by capital that put the survival of socialist Russia (a weapon in the hands of the world’s workers) at stake. When those political enemies (including clergymen) got their way they built death camps and mass-murdered Jews.

The policy of "Decossackization", and meant eliminating, exterminating, and deporting populations of territories to implement communism. They did this routinely, and killed an estimated 300,000-500,000 just around the revolution alone.
A cruel policy made necessary by the circumstances of a cruel civil war, one in which Cossacks allied with the White Army were attacking the general population indiscriminately. Now compare that to the systematic killing of perhaps 30 million Native Americans because they were in the way of capitalist expansion.

Stalin's regime killed at least 20 million, and most estimates are near 50-60 million.
To get a figure of 20 million you have to count every invading German soldier his people killed, and every member of the Red Army the Germans killed. To get a figure like 50 million you have to exaggerate by a large factor.

Stalin killed closer to 12 million, mostly one of 3 groups:

1. Communists killed by Stalin as part of his counterrevolution
2. Peasants and other petty capitalists and dissidents killed during Stalin’s period of ultraleftist madness, which became his only means of defending his regime after he had undermined it by persecuting the left and cozying up to the right for years
3. Ethnic minorities (particularly Ukrainians) attacked without regard for the working-class interest, to extricate the ruling bureaucracy from its (often self-imposed) difficulties.

Stalin, as it happens, took power with the full-throated support of conservatives, liberals, and every other anti-communist current in the world; his rise to power at the head of a counterrevolution against Leninism was opposed only by the world communist movement led by Lenin and Trotsky.

After the USSR collapsed, the books were opened and it was horrifying. That includes executing 800,000 political enemies, 1.7 million deaths (likely higher) in the gulags, and 390,000 deaths during forced resettlements.
[/QUOTE]

Nearly all dissidents (mostly communists persecuted for continuing to support proletarian internationalism against Stalin’s anticommunist, nationalist, petit-bourgeois political course), plus a considerable number of ethnic minorities persecuted as part of Stalin’s efforts to revive the capitalist Russian Empire.

Stalin's Great Purge, where he had executed hundreds of thousands of political enemies, prisoners, and clergy by gunshot to the back of the head, or from torture in the gulag, starvation, disease, etc. It's historically considered a genocide.
And who were the targets of the Great Purge? Communists.

The Soviet Famine in the 1930's has been deemed as done so on purpose to punish Ukrainian nationalism, thus to suppress liberty in the name of the mother state.
A nationalist course that was just the opposite of the internationalist course (including self-determination on an unheard-of scale) pursued by Lenin.

They allowed millions to die in what is legally considered another communist USSR genocide.
In order to save the regime from the anticommunist forces Stalin’s own counterrevolution had set in motion.

Where are America's massive murders of innocents and genocides such as these? Name them.
A handful of examples:

2 million Native Americans murdered in the United States

Centuries of slavery with its attendant atrocities visited on millions

Torture and massacres of thousands of Filipinos (colonial subjects of the U.S.)

The planned incineration of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians for profit

Targeting of civilians (bombing to the last hut, indiscriminate strafing, and biological warfare) and torture in N. Korea.

The killing by bombing of millions in Indo-China, war against the environment, “free-fire zones” for those who refused to relocate to concentration camps, deliberate flooding of cities killing hundreds of thousands, torture

The deliberate killing of tens of thousands of unarmed, surrendering Iraqi troops

Atrocities committed by U.S.-backed regimes from Pakistan to Turkey to Israel to Indonesia to Chile to El Salvador to Guatemala to Iran to Iraq to Russia.

American isn't innocent, but Capitalism on the whole looks sparkly clean in comparison to this monstrosity that held the same ideals you do, if you go by the numbers and for what purpose it was done for.
Disagreed. First you are conflating the advance of the revolution with the monstrosity erected on the basis of the revolution’s betrayal. Second you are ignoring capitalism’s true record. I haven’t even mentioned the Holocaust. Or the murders in the Belgian Congo. The Bengal famine. The Biafra War. The Iran-Iraq War.
 
WWII
WWI
Vietnam War
Korean War
Afghanistan War
Many others



Native Americans
Europe’s Jews
Africans
Irish
And the list goes on.

The USSR did a TON in the name of communism.

The "Red Terror" where the "Cheka" (aka political police) executed tens of thousands of what the state branded as "enemies of the people". Yes, executing political enemies and clergymen in broad daylight for not supporting the government.
During a civil war instituted by capital that put the survival of socialist Russia (a weapon in the hands of the world’s workers) at stake. When those political enemies (including clergymen) got their way they built death camps and mass-murdered Jews.



A cruel policy made necessary by the circumstances of a cruel civil war, one in which Cossacks allied with the White Army were attacking the general population indiscriminately. Now compare that to the systematic killing of perhaps 30 million Native Americans because they were in the way of capitalist expansion.



To get a figure of 20 million you have to count every invading German soldier his people killed, and every member of the Red Army the Germans killed. To get a figure like 50 million you have to exaggerate by a large factor.

Stalin killed closer to 12 million, mostly one of 3 groups:

1. Communists killed by Stalin as part of his counterrevolution
2. Peasants and other petty capitalists and dissidents killed during Stalin’s period of ultraleftist madness, which became his only means of defending his regime after he had undermined it by persecuting the left and cozying up to the right for years
3. Ethnic minorities (particularly Ukrainians) attacked without regard for the working-class interest, to extricate the ruling bureaucracy from its (often self-imposed) difficulties.

Stalin, as it happens, took power with the full-throated support of conservatives, liberals, and every other anti-communist current in the world; his rise to power at the head of a counterrevolution against Leninism was opposed only by the world communist movement led by Lenin and Trotsky.

After the USSR collapsed, the books were opened and it was horrifying. That includes executing 800,000 political enemies, 1.7 million deaths (likely higher) in the gulags, and 390,000 deaths during forced resettlements.
[/QUOTE]

Nearly all dissidents (mostly communists persecuted for continuing to support proletarian internationalism against Stalin’s anticommunist, nationalist, petit-bourgeois political course), plus a considerable number of ethnic minorities persecuted as part of Stalin’s efforts to revive the capitalist Russian Empire.



And who were the targets of the Great Purge? Communists.



A nationalist course that was just the opposite of the internationalist course (including self-determination on an unheard-of scale) pursued by Lenin.



In order to save the regime from the anticommunist forces Stalin’s own counterrevolution had set in motion.



A handful of examples:

2 million Native Americans murdered in the United States

Centuries of slavery with its attendant atrocities visited on millions

Torture and massacres of thousands of Filipinos (colonial subjects of the U.S.)

The planned incineration of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians for profit

Targeting of civilians (bombing to the last hut, indiscriminate strafing, and biological warfare) and torture in N. Korea.

The killing by bombing of millions in Indo-China, war against the environment, “free-fire zones” for those who refused to relocate to concentration camps, deliberate flooding of cities killing hundreds of thousands, torture

The deliberate killing of tens of thousands of unarmed, surrendering Iraqi troops

Atrocities committed by U.S.-backed regimes from Pakistan to Turkey to Israel to Indonesia to Chile to El Salvador to Guatemala to Iran to Iraq to Russia.


Disagreed. First you are conflating the advance of the revolution with the monstrosity erected on the basis of the revolution’s betrayal. Second you are ignoring capitalism’s true record. I haven’t even mentioned the Holocaust. Or the murders in the Belgian Congo. The Bengal famine. The Biafra War. The Iran-Iraq War.
[/QUOTE]

I beat your ass on this thread and you come back to it with the same broke ass false ideas? Can't you learn? ;0)

Whatever was capitalism (in your opinion) it nonetheless improves over time. What communism does is rot everything to the core.
 

EatTheRich

President
I beat your ass on this thread and you come back to it with the same broke ass false ideas? Can't you learn? ;0)

Whatever was capitalism (in your opinion) it nonetheless improves over time. What communism does is rot everything to the core.
Yeah, you successfully ignored all my factual points and “beat my ass” with platitudes. Again. You could probably get a Presidential Medal of Freedom if you keep it up.

If capitalism “gets better” why the grassroots movement to “make America great again” following the disappearance of the “American Dream”? Why is Generation X the first generation of Americans expected to have a lower standard of living than their parents?

What hasn’t been rotted to the core by capitalism? Love, sex, honor, friendship, patriotism, religion, human rights, education, art, water, air? And you reproach communism with tearing down this rotten structure so that a new culture can be built on sustainable foundations.
 
Am I in a time warp? Is someone here actually defending the United Fruit Company? Father Berrigan would be rolling over in his grave.
 
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