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Cavs Warriors game 2

Bo-4

Senator
Could Shaun Livingston be the x-factor AGAIN? He's been on NINE NBA teams? Damn - i never would have answered that correctly as a trivia question! :cool:

After stops with nine NBA teams, Shaun Livingston finally became a hero in the NBA Finals on Thursday.

Livingston scored 20 points [8-10 shooting] as many as Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson combined, helping the Warriors beat Cleveland, 104-89, in the opener. Game 2 is Sunday, also at Oracle Arena.


MOAR:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-warriors-cavaliers-finals-20160603-snap-story.html
 

Mr. Friscus

Governor
Could Shaun Livingston be the x-factor AGAIN? He's been on NINE NBA teams? Damn - i never would have answered that correctly as a trivia question! :cool:

After stops with nine NBA teams, Shaun Livingston finally became a hero in the NBA Finals on Thursday.

Livingston scored 20 points [8-10 shooting] as many as Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson combined, helping the Warriors beat Cleveland, 104-89, in the opener. Game 2 is Sunday, also at Oracle Arena.


MOAR:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-warriors-cavaliers-finals-20160603-snap-story.html
The impressive thing to me about Livingston in game 1 was that on a lot of his shots, he wasn't just left wide open like Barbosa, Barnes, Iguadala, or Green. Livingston was making tough buckets, just extending over the defenders arm.

Despite the score, I saw very positive switching and shifting in the Cavs D to disrupt the rhythm of the Warriors. Now, they got beat on some backdoor cuts, and the role players were on fire, but I think it's a good strategy going into Game 2.

Curry and Thompson not only didn't shoot well, but they shot far less than they usually do. I think (or hope) Game 1 was an exception, and I'm going to give my UPSET SPECIAL Bo...

Cavs win Game 2.

Now, I don't have anything on it. But, I think Kyrie plays better (he was poor in Game 1), I think J.R. Smith plays better (he was a no-show), I think my boy Channing Frye gets in the game more and makes his presence felt, and we'll just see how it goes!

I expect Curry and Thompson to also play better, as pretty much everyone does. I'd bet a lot that Livingston doesn't drop 20 again, but the Warriors can more than make up for it with even Draymond Green and the Bench.

However, Cavs 108 Warriors 106

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!..
 

Bo-4

Senator
The impressive thing to me about Livingston in game 1 was that on a lot of his shots, he wasn't just left wide open like Barbosa, Barnes, Iguadala, or Green. Livingston was making tough buckets, just extending over the defenders arm.

Despite the score, I saw very positive switching and shifting in the Cavs D to disrupt the rhythm of the Warriors. Now, they got beat on some backdoor cuts, and the role players were on fire, but I think it's a good strategy going into Game 2.

Curry and Thompson not only didn't shoot well, but they shot far less than they usually do. I think (or hope) Game 1 was an exception, and I'm going to give my UPSET SPECIAL Bo...

Cavs win Game 2.

Now, I don't have anything on it. But, I think Kyrie plays better (he was poor in Game 1), I think J.R. Smith plays better (he was a no-show), I think my boy Channing Frye gets in the game more and makes his presence felt, and we'll just see how it goes!

I expect Curry and Thompson to also play better, as pretty much everyone does. I'd bet a lot that Livingston doesn't drop 20 again, but the Warriors can more than make up for it with even Draymond Green and the Bench.

However, Cavs 108 Warriors 106

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!..
Just did, put $100 on to make $95 on GS -6.5. We'll find out out on short order! :)
 

Mr. Friscus

Governor
Just did, put $100 on to make $95 on GS -6.5. We'll find out out on short order! :)
Good bet! As for Mr. Friscus's big pick, it doesn't do much for credibility. Unlike ESPN talking heads, after I make a big pick, I won't pretend it didn't happen. Wow, did that game NOT go down how I had thought (well, hoped) it would.

But, I have a few thoughts, and a complaint.

1. Before I get into the game, let me just say that, given all the circumstances (which I'll get to in a minute), the Warriors out-hustled and just played better basketball. Their defense, role players, and bench are absolutely killing the Cavs. I honestly think the Warriors' best lineup right now is without Steph Curry, who is a big defensive liablity. Right now, the lineup that the Cavs seem to not have an answer for is:

PG Livinston
SG Thompson
SF Iguadala
PF Green
C Bogut/Ezili

2. Obviously, the hero of Game 2 for the Warriors was Draymond Green, who has overall dropped off in the past few weeks. During the season, I considered him the MVP of that team. His passion, and his all-around numbers along with his defense is what set the tone for that team. It would often shock people to hear me say that "Steph Curry isn't the most valuable guy in the league, he's not even the most valuable guy on his team". As for Green, you just have to eat some of those 3-pointers he made, although the Cavs didn't get out on 2-3 of them.

3. Okay, now comes the part that Warriors fans would certainly tell me to just "shut up" about, but I think deserves to be mentioned. The way Game 2 was called COMPLETELY took the interior and penetration game away from the basketball game, which also happened to be the aspect which the Cavs needed to utilize.
- Lebron was hacked at the end of the 1st quarter, no call.
- Irving bashed on a drive by Livingston, no call.
- Kevin Love getting a mismatch Curry off the ground on a pump-fake, getting his arms wrapped up on the shot, no call.
- Irving's wrist slapped by Green, no call.
- Kevin Love's head elbowed HARD, no call.
- Lebron bumped hard on pretty much every pump fake, no calls.

- Kevin Love, 0 Foul shots... NONE!!! For all the post-ups, pump fakes..
- Kyrie, 0 Foul shots... NONE!!! All those drives to the basket beating his defender.
- Lebron, 2 trips to the line? He probably drove and got into the lane 20 times, it's hard to believe, based on what I saw, that anyone could believe these stats based on the basketball they were seeing.

To me, it's taking away an element of the game, and completely setting up the Warriors to go on runs like they are, to their credit. I mean, the rules demand these calls be made, but also, the players get used to such hard and obvious fouls getting called. It's almost as if players get used to the NBA foul system, and when a player's arm gets smacked in an obvious enough fashion, through a mild fault of their own, they look for the ref to administer the rules. Instead, the other team has already picked up the ball, and are half-way down the court with a 4 on 3 or something, evenly spread out, and getting wide open shots.

There will always be mild calls that won't be called. I've said it before, the NBA is toughest of the major sports to officiate. However, Game 2 was one of the more blatant examples I've seen of referees completely ignoring hard smacks of the arm, and taken away the entire penetration game of a team, making their advantage they have into a disadvantage to do so. The Warriors are already such a stout and long defensive team, they really don't need the help. However, had the Cavs recieved at least mild respect from the refs in that aspect, the game would have been close, as the pace, energy, and focus would have been there. The Warriors might have still won this game, but this blowout was CLEARLY the product of the Warriors not simply just being 30 points better than the Cavs, IMO.

Now, I'll also say that these are professional athletes, and the Cavs aren't babies. Once things weren't going their way, down 15, they started to tank and throw in the towel. They began doing what deflated teams do: Turnovers, bad shots, and getting out-hustled. However, I'd be frustrated as well if I were on the Cavs, after all that went on. If you were Cleveland in that game, with the parameters set that nix your strengths, it might have been winless ball game.

4. Meanwhile, just some add-ons.

J.R. Smith has been the #1 disappointment. Now, he's had very few open looks, the Warriors have defended him well. However, he has a body of work to prove that he can often hit the fade away 3-pointer, even with a hand in his face, and at big moments. He's hit 1 3-pointer in each game, but also just hasn't been a threat.

Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving, overall, have continued to be disappointments. I think both were hit a lot, and both should have had 6-8 foul shots more than they did, but both still have ways they can be effective with their talents. I think Kyrie, again, didn't move the ball like he should. He's playing much like he did against the Raptors in Game 3 & 4, when the Cavs were getting beat in Toronto.

Andrew Bogut was having a block party last night, but I think a few of the drives he came over-the-top to block were possible fouls underneath. Regardless, I was dying for a Cavs player to pump fake Bogut and Green just once, as those guys were jumping wildly for the block every time.

In the same area, I've never seen a team get hands on some balls (BASKETBALLS.. perv ;), poke so many balls away to nullify drives to the basket, and get all-ball on so many downward swipes. Iguadala especially. The guy's hands are like magnets to balls. Okay, since I'm ticked at how the series is going, I'm gonna go there. The Warriors love balls, they love the get their hands on them. Dang it!

Going forward, I hope to see the referees make a DRASTIC shift to calling an NBA game that rewards drives to the hoop and beating your man off the dribble. I'm not even calling for "home-cooking", which gives the home team a clear advantage on foul calls (although I think the Cavs deserve Game 3 handed to them on a silver platter), I just want the rules to be enforced.

And this isn't an "it effects both teams" issue. It clearly effects the Cavs infinately more. The Warriors probably go to the hoop 25% of the times the Cavs do, and thus, even an evenly-called game will have the Cavs at the line at lot more than the Warriors.

Also, we'll see if Kevin Love even plays. Honestly, I don't see how you can't make that call. A flagarant elbow to the back of the head, knocking a player out essentially. While I don't always subscribe to "a bad result equals a foul", I couldn't believe there wasn't a call there.

Call me a homer, but just in the last series we saw Toronto all but written off, and yet came back home and gathered themselves. So many people are doing the same here. The Cavs are being written off, with no shot. I disagree, but now becomes true "must win" time. The Cavs HAVE to win game 3. Only then will I say the series is over.
 

Bo-4

Senator
Good bet! As for Mr. Friscus's big pick, it doesn't do much for credibility. Unlike ESPN talking heads, after I make a big pick, I won't pretend it didn't happen. Wow, did that game NOT go down how I had thought (well, hoped) it would.

But, I have a few thoughts, and a complaint.

1. Before I get into the game, let me just say that, given all the circumstances (which I'll get to in a minute), the Warriors out-hustled and just played better basketball. Their defense, role players, and bench are absolutely killing the Cavs. I honestly think the Warriors' best lineup right now is without Steph Curry, who is a big defensive liablity. Right now, the lineup that the Cavs seem to not have an answer for is:

PG Livinston
SG Thompson
SF Iguadala
PF Green
C Bogut/Ezili

2. Obviously, the hero of Game 2 for the Warriors was Draymond Green, who has overall dropped off in the past few weeks. During the season, I considered him the MVP of that team. His passion, and his all-around numbers along with his defense is what set the tone for that team. It would often shock people to hear me say that "Steph Curry isn't the most valuable guy in the league, he's not even the most valuable guy on his team". As for Green, you just have to eat some of those 3-pointers he made, although the Cavs didn't get out on 2-3 of them.

3. Okay, now comes the part that Warriors fans would certainly tell me to just "shut up" about, but I think deserves to be mentioned. The way Game 2 was called COMPLETELY took the interior and penetration game away from the basketball game, which also happened to be the aspect which the Cavs needed to utilize.
- Lebron was hacked at the end of the 1st quarter, no call.
- Irving bashed on a drive by Livingston, no call.
- Kevin Love getting a mismatch Curry off the ground on a pump-fake, getting his arms wrapped up on the shot, no call.
- Irving's wrist slapped by Green, no call.
- Kevin Love's head elbowed HARD, no call.
- Lebron bumped hard on pretty much every pump fake, no calls.

- Kevin Love, 0 Foul shots... NONE!!! For all the post-ups, pump fakes..
- Kyrie, 0 Foul shots... NONE!!! All those drives to the basket beating his defender.
- Lebron, 2 trips to the line? He probably drove and got into the lane 20 times, it's hard to believe, based on what I saw, that anyone could believe these stats based on the basketball they were seeing.

To me, it's taking away an element of the game, and completely setting up the Warriors to go on runs like they are, to their credit. I mean, the rules demand these calls be made, but also, the players get used to such hard and obvious fouls getting called. It's almost as if players get used to the NBA foul system, and when a player's arm gets smacked in an obvious enough fashion, through a mild fault of their own, they look for the ref to administer the rules. Instead, the other team has already picked up the ball, and are half-way down the court with a 4 on 3 or something, evenly spread out, and getting wide open shots.

There will always be mild calls that won't be called. I've said it before, the NBA is toughest of the major sports to officiate. However, Game 2 was one of the more blatant examples I've seen of referees completely ignoring hard smacks of the arm, and taken away the entire penetration game of a team, making their advantage they have into a disadvantage to do so. The Warriors are already such a stout and long defensive team, they really don't need the help. However, had the Cavs recieved at least mild respect from the refs in that aspect, the game would have been close, as the pace, energy, and focus would have been there. The Warriors might have still won this game, but this blowout was CLEARLY the product of the Warriors not simply just being 30 points better than the Cavs, IMO.

Now, I'll also say that these are professional athletes, and the Cavs aren't babies. Once things weren't going their way, down 15, they started to tank and throw in the towel. They began doing what deflated teams do: Turnovers, bad shots, and getting out-hustled. However, I'd be frustrated as well if I were on the Cavs, after all that went on. If you were Cleveland in that game, with the parameters set that nix your strengths, it might have been winless ball game.

4. Meanwhile, just some add-ons.

J.R. Smith has been the #1 disappointment. Now, he's had very few open looks, the Warriors have defended him well. However, he has a body of work to prove that he can often hit the fade away 3-pointer, even with a hand in his face, and at big moments. He's hit 1 3-pointer in each game, but also just hasn't been a threat.

Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving, overall, have continued to be disappointments. I think both were hit a lot, and both should have had 6-8 foul shots more than they did, but both still have ways they can be effective with their talents. I think Kyrie, again, didn't move the ball like he should. He's playing much like he did against the Raptors in Game 3 & 4, when the Cavs were getting beat in Toronto.

Andrew Bogut was having a block party last night, but I think a few of the drives he came over-the-top to block were possible fouls underneath. Regardless, I was dying for a Cavs player to pump fake Bogut and Green just once, as those guys were jumping wildly for the block every time.

In the same area, I've never seen a team get hands on some balls (BASKETBALLS.. perv ;), poke so many balls away to nullify drives to the basket, and get all-ball on so many downward swipes. Iguadala especially. The guy's hands are like magnets to balls. Okay, since I'm ticked at how the series is going, I'm gonna go there. The Warriors love balls, they love the get their hands on them. Dang it!

Going forward, I hope to see the referees make a DRASTIC shift to calling an NBA game that rewards drives to the hoop and beating your man off the dribble. I'm not even calling for "home-cooking", which gives the home team a clear advantage on foul calls (although I think the Cavs deserve Game 3 handed to them on a silver platter), I just want the rules to be enforced.

And this isn't an "it effects both teams" issue. It clearly effects the Cavs infinately more. The Warriors probably go to the hoop 25% of the times the Cavs do, and thus, even an evenly-called game will have the Cavs at the line at lot more than the Warriors.

Also, we'll see if Kevin Love even plays. Honestly, I don't see how you can't make that call. A flagarant elbow to the back of the head, knocking a player out essentially. While I don't always subscribe to "a bad result equals a foul", I couldn't believe there wasn't a call there.

Call me a homer, but just in the last series we saw Toronto all but written off, and yet came back home and gathered themselves. So many people are doing the same here. The Cavs are being written off, with no shot. I disagree, but now becomes true "must win" time. The Cavs HAVE to win game 3. Only then will I say the series is over.
Yep - i have to concede some of the lopsided officiating and especially the elbow to Love's head. DAMN that looked painful.

However even if the Cavs had gotten 10-12 more calls than they did, not sure it would have changed the outcome.

Green was indeed the MVP last night. Dude was POSSESSED. As to whether he should have been the league MVP for this season -- disagree.

Steph 2015/16:

FG% = 47%
3 point FG% = 45% on 402 attempts (best in league)
FT% = 90% (best in league)
Assists = 527
Rebounds = 430
PPG Ave = 30

Draymond 2015/16:

FG% = 49%
3 point FG = 38%
FT% = 69%
Assists = 598
Rebounds = 769
PPG Av = 14

Now i'll grant you that intangibles are not considered in statistics but hey - Steph's MVP vote was UNANIMOUS .. for the first time ever. Gotta pay attention to guys who understand the game even better than you and I! ;)

Now, as to game 3 .. i will actually root for the Cavs to win because i want to see a good series. If the spread is GS minus 4 or more? I take the Cavs. Nothing beats home cookin'!!

Oh my - well, it's Cavs +1 and just placed my bet - so if they win, I win! They lose by one it's a push and nobody wins. I like this very much!!

You're Cavs WILL win! :D

Good luck!
 

Mr. Friscus

Governor
Steph 2015/16:

FG% = 47%
3 point FG% = 45% on 402 attempts (best in league)
FT% = 90% (best in league)
Assists = 527
Rebounds = 430
PPG Ave = 30

Draymond 2015/16:

FG% = 49%
3 point FG = 38%
FT% = 69%
Assists = 598
Rebounds = 769
PPG Av = 14

Now i'll grant you that intangibles are not considered in statistics but hey - Steph's MVP vote was UNANIMOUS .. for the first time ever. Gotta pay attention to guys who understand the game even better than you and I! ;)
It depends on what the MVP truly means, and what you value beyond the stat sheet.

I'd certainly award Steph Curry a "Most Outstanding Player" award, but not the Most Valuable Player, not by a long shot. He has a team that could likely win a Championship without him. He has the best and deepest team around him in the league. That's not "Value" to a team.

Meanwhile, the reason I suggest Draymond could be seen as the true MVP of the Warriors isn't all on the stat sheet, although some of it is.

What does a rebound mean? What does an assist mean?

If we're going to compare the two:

Draymond is an absolutely better defender, by a lot.
Draymond is a better rebounder, by a truckload
Draymond is more physical, by a lot
Draymond is more inspirational and passionate to the team.

Meanwhile, Steph is a better scorer by a lot, obviously. However, Curry is sometimes very one-dimensional, even if that one dimension can be exceptional.

However, I think if you took Green off the Warriors, they might win more games than if you took Curry off the Warriors, just my opinion.
 
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