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Compromise: Keep the Electoral College and get rid of winner take all in awarding electoral votes.

trapdoor

Governor
Local problems are the purview of local government. The federal government should be elected in such a way that the parochial concerns of tiny local minorities don’t overwhelm the broad concerns of the country as a whole.
What if the local problem stems from a federal policy? Then all of a sudden your 1.2 million voters have an urgent need for help from a federal government that won't give a damn about them.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
What if the local problem stems from a federal policy? Then all of a sudden your 1.2 million voters have an urgent need for help from a federal government that won't give a damn about them.
The EC elects the president alone.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I must say, with great conviction -- huh?
Not sure what that means, but in the discussion, to say that the government is decided by New York and California is incorrect....they don't even pick the president.

Arguing that the EC forces the candidates to go to the small states to campaign ignores the fact that there were no campaign events in most states...and that goes back quite a few elections. In many states the votes from those in the minority just don't count. Republican votes for president in California are a waste of time and have been since 1984 when Reagan ran last. Democrats in Texas are likewise not counted.
 

reason10

Governor
Award electoral votes in proportion to how each voter in that state votes. This still allows voters in smaller states to protect their interest, and it makes every state something the candidate needs to fight for and allows each state to have it issues heard.

This way the conservative votes in blues states and the liberal votes in red states will now count.
Only if all votes come with a photo ID.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Only if all votes come with a photo ID.
ID was required when I registered to vote in Hawaii, California and now Colorado.

There were alternatives to a photo ID that were allowed...like a phone bill or utility bill, under the assumption that it was unlikely that you'd have such a bill in your possession if you didn't live at that address.

When Colorado had in person voting we were required to show an ID before voting. Now all voters get an absentee ballot and fraud is practically unheard of.
 

reason10

Governor
ID was required when I registered to vote in Hawaii, California and now Colorado.

There were alternatives to a photo ID that were allowed...like a phone bill or utility bill, under the assumption that it was unlikely that you'd have such a bill in your possession if you didn't live at that address.

When Colorado had in person voting we were required to show an ID before voting. Now all voters get an absentee ballot and fraud is practically unheard of.
Fraud elected Joe.
Election fraud turned this
1632253714280.png

into this.

1632253829642.png

Biden did NOT earn that office with LEGAL votes.
 

Spamature

President
Only if all votes come with a photo ID.
Sure.

Because your point shaving scheme will not matter at that point.

It really only help you in a winner take all situation.

With a division of the EC votes based upon the vote the margins need to change the EC numbers will be well above what ever you might gain by shaving votes for no ID.

In other words, your talking points, and your point shaving plan to win by false attrition, will be TOAST.

See how much better this idea would make the world.
 

reason10

Governor
Sure.

Because your point shaving scheme will not matter at that point.

It really only help you in a winner take all situation.

With a division of the EC votes based upon the vote the margins need to change the EC numbers will be well above what ever you might gain by shaving votes for no ID.

In other words, your talking points, and your point shaving plan to win by false attrition, will be TOAST.

See how much better this idea would make the world.
The only flaw in the EC system today is the lack of enforcement of voting laws. Those illegal aliens that Joe spread all over the country will be voting many times, mostly without photo ID.
The Constitution that produced the Electoral College is not flawed in the slightest. It is still the best way to have presidents elected by voters who don't live in New York or California.
 

Spamature

President
The only flaw in the EC system today is the lack of enforcement of voting laws. Those illegal aliens that Joe spread all over the country will be voting many times, mostly without photo ID.
The Constitution that produced the Electoral College is not flawed in the slightest. It is still the best way to have presidents elected by voters who don't live in New York or California.
So after showing you your point shaving scheme won't work anymore.

Do you now think it's a bad idea ?

You can yammer on and on about illegal votes.

But all the votes you are whining about were counted by machine, then counted again by hand, then counted again by machine, and they all matched up every time.

You lost.
If we do it the way I am talking about, you will lose, and you won't have these fake excuses to soothe your ego.

Meaning, you will just have to get over it without them.

Edit:

I have to go back to find out what you meant.

It was the electoral college votes the insurrectionist trying to stop the count.

They did it based upon a lie by Trump.

And you have the nerve to say it's bashing Trump.
He bashed the Constitution, and you think that's probably Biden's fault or something.
 
Last edited:

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Fraud elected Joe.
Election fraud turned this
View attachment 65863

into this.

View attachment 65864

Biden did NOT earn that office with LEGAL votes.
Bullshit. Attempts in over 60 lawsuits failed, even in the Supreme Court. Rulings by judges appointed by Trump affirmed that there was no evidence of fraud submitted by Trump's lawyers. The wheels are coming off of the AZ audit by the Cyber Sphincters...recounts in every state and audits in every state prove you wrong and Trump a liar.

In the last 10 months Trump supporters have continued to make the same allegations you are. You have yet to provide proof, because you have none.
 

trapdoor

Governor
Not sure what that means, but in the discussion, to say that the government is decided by New York and California is incorrect....they don't even pick the president.

Arguing that the EC forces the candidates to go to the small states to campaign ignores the fact that there were no campaign events in most states...and that goes back quite a few elections. In many states the votes from those in the minority just don't count. Republican votes for president in California are a waste of time and have been since 1984 when Reagan ran last. Democrats in Texas are likewise not counted.
"Huh?" means I completely didn't get what you mean by your most recent post.
There are campaign events in Missouri almost every campaign. Why? Because Missouri is (or at least was) a "swing" state. Take away the electoral college and most candidates would never see Missouri. Take away the electoral college and Hillary would have paid no penalty at the polls for her failure to visit the so-called "Blue Wall" states. She'd have been elected by three million votes, most of them cast in California.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
"Huh?" means I completely didn't get what you mean by your most recent post.
There are campaign events in Missouri almost every campaign. Why? Because Missouri is (or at least was) a "swing" state. Take away the electoral college and most candidates would never see Missouri. Take away the electoral college and Hillary would have paid no penalty at the polls for her failure to visit the so-called "Blue Wall" states. She'd have been elected by three million votes, most of them cast in California.
Here are the states were there were presidential campaign events in 2020.
1632316185997.png

I'm not sure I see the value that you do in having a presidential campaign event in my state...but you are wrong about where campaigns happen.


Trump won Missouri by 20 points in both 2016 and 2020. Just what specific issues were important to the state of Missouri that Trump took care of for them?

On the national level there are major issues we elect the president to address....National Defense, Immigration, Foreign Trade, Taxes, Health Care...these are not local issues and the voters of Missouri share their interests in those issues with voters in every other state....

The EC was meant to address regional issues...specifically slavery. It was expected slave states would vote as a block on that issue...therefore the attempt was made to balance out electors between north and south.

That isn't the case today.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
I believe what happened was because of unabashed lying by Trump using the lies of his lying lawyers. Lawyers who would not repeat those same lies when in a court of law where they would be held responsible for them.

Trump's play only makes sense if the states are winner take all. Had they not been the EC would have been split according to the vote and he would have had nothing to gain from his lies.
I thought your topic was the Electoral College....Now, it's just another Trump rant?

How boring.
 

Spamature

President
I did that already.

And then you went off about Trump.
I mentioned the insurrectionist because he used the flaw that would have been fixed by changing the EC.


It's been explained before that the margins in state vote would no longer be an issue if it was not winner take all.

Because you would need larger percentages of the public vote to change the EC outcome to the point where there would be an issue.


You would need at least a 2% margin over your opponent to get even one more Calif EC vote, and that is the state.

Winning by 1% would have the same outcome as winning by 5% in a state with 20 EC votes in that state.

It would require an even larger percentage win in smaller states.
So there would be no question or packs of lies that could be put up to claim the outcome should have been different.
 

EatTheRich

President
What if the local problem stems from a federal policy? Then all of a sudden your 1.2 million voters have an urgent need for help from a federal government that won't give a damn about them.
Historically, centralism has best prevented federal policies from causing local problems. Compare the great failures of federalism in the U.S. to the successes of centralization in Vietnam.
 
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