Fact -When the Civil War started, Lincoln asked Robert E Lee to lead all Union troops

[EatTheRich]

The war started when the CSA ordered the USA to get its Fort Sumter troops off CSA land and the USA refused.

They weren’t on CSA land. They were on federal land, for one thing. For another thing, the CSA was not a legitimate government. Legally, that federal land was bordered by the U.S. state of South Carolina.

 

[EatTheRich]

As i explained in the OP, both North and South had d black slavery throughout the war. The South had more slaves than the north but the north did have 300,000. THINK

And the president who was elected was pledged to stop the spread of slavery, something the Confederate conspirators found intolerable.

 

[make speed limit 45]

Article III, Section 3

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

But lincoln always said there was no war. It was an insurrection. He never recognized the CSA as a country. THINK

 

[make speed limit 45]

And the president who was elected was pledged to stop the spread of slavery,

Another brazen lie. Where did a law or the constitution pledge lincoln to stop the spread of slavery.

 

[EatTheRich]

But lincoln always said there was no war. It was an insurrection. He never recognized the CSA as a country. THINK

An insurrection is a war. Just not a war between countries. “Now we are engaged in a great civil war.”-Abraham Lincoln

 

[EatTheRich]

Another brazen lie. Where did a law or the constitution pledge lincoln to stop the spread of slavery.

It was a campaign pledge.

 

[Dawg]

They weren’t on CSA land. They were on federal land, for one thing. For another thing, the CSA was not a legitimate government. Legally, that federal land was bordered by the U.S. state of South Carolina.

by Law feds were not suppose to own land other than for forts/ammo dumps/etc

North fired first shot...………...wish repeaters were available....ending would have been much different...….will be next time

 

[redtide]

and of those people, who led an army meant to destroy our nation to preserve slavery?

it was Lincoln who made war

 

[EatTheRich]

by Law feds were not suppose to own land other than for forts/ammo dumps/etc

North fired first shot...………...wish repeaters were available....ending would have been much different...….will be next time

Ft. Sumter was a fort, of course.

 

[Dawg]

Ft. Sumter was a fort, of course.

so why did gawd damn Yankees fire on it?

motherfvckers had to travel down to do it...……..

WE were suppose to do what, like you fold up and cry and not fire back?

next time will be much different, we don't have to reload after every shot...….

You stay out there in Montana in poverty and whine of rich not giving you what you will not achieve for yourself as Americans and even illegals do......work their way out of poverty...…..

damn good thing you can't get pregnant!

 

[EatTheRich]

so why did gawd damn Yankees fire on it?

motherfvckers had to travel down to do it...……..

WE were suppose to do what, like you fold up and cry and not fire back?

next time will be much different, we don't have to reload after every shot...….

You stay out there in Montana in poverty and whine of rich not giving you what you will not achieve for yourself as Americans and even illegals do......work their way out of poverty...…..

damn good thing you can't get pregnant!

They didn’t. The rebels fired on it, to initiate their attack on the U.S.

 

[Dawg]

They didn’t. The rebels fired on it, to initiate their attack on the U.S.

You're a gawd damn lying SOB

move ya poverty ass to Cali

 

[make speed limit 45]

An insurrection is a war. Just not a war between countries. “Now we are engaged in a great civil war.”-Abraham Lincoln

I could give you a hundred quotes where lincoln said the civil war was not a war. Of course it was - hell, lincoln had POW camps for captured johnny rebs. But he would not publicly recognize the CSA as a country.

 

[EatTheRich]

I could give you a hundred quotes where lincoln said the civil war was not a war. Of course it was - hell, lincoln had POW camps for captured johnny rebs. But he would not publicly recognize the CSA as a country.

It wasn’t a country. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a war, as he explicitly recognized I. The quoted text and many other times.

 

[trapdoor]

and of those people, who led an army meant to destroy our nation to preserve slavery?

From the pre-Civil War perspective, the United States were no more a "nation" than we would consider the European Union a nation today. The South, yes for reasons that involved slavery as an issue among others, wanted its own version of "Brexit." Political options could have been tried, and probably would have been successful. It would have made two different organizations of states, and one would have succumbed to the other economically over time (slavery is much less efficient than industry, which the North had).

 

[middleview]

From the pre-Civil War perspective, the United States were no more a "nation" than we would consider the European Union a nation today. The South, yes for reasons that involved slavery as an issue among others, wanted its own version of "Brexit." Political options could have been tried, and probably would have been successful. It would have made two different organizations of states, and one would have succumbed to the other economically over time (slavery is much less efficient than industry, which the North had).

Which has nothing at all to do with the point.

 

[trapdoor]

When he joined the army he swore an oath, which he violated when he joined the confederate army.

Lee did not "join" the Confederate Army. Lee resigned his commission and moved home to Virginia. He was appointed as a colonel in the Virginia state militia before secession. After secession, he remained in Virginia militia for some time before he was given a commission in the CSA Army. He took command of the Army of Northern Virginia early in the Battle of the Seven Days when general Joseph Johnston was wounded. It was basically a series of promotions over which he had little control, save that he could have left military service entirely. From his own perspective, his native country, Virginia, was being invaded and he was fighting to defend it. It's important, I think, to recognize the perspective of historical figures -- they lack access to the information we have, and can only be judged morally the standards of their own times. Dracula (the historical figure, not Bram Stoker's creation) impaled his enemies on long spikes -- this is brutal savagery by our modern perspective, but was a moral way to discourage further invasions in his own view. Yes, Lee defended slavery. So what?

 

[trapdoor]

Which has nothing at all to do with the point.

It has everything to do with the point. Lee was not trying to "destroy the United States." He and HIS country merely wanted not to be a part of that federation.

 

[middleview]

Lee did not "join" the Confederate Army. Lee resigned his commission and moved home to Virginia. He was appointed as a colonel in the Virginia state militia before secession. After secession, he remained in Virginia militia for some time before he was given a commission in the CSA Army. He took command of the Army of Northern Virginia early in the Battle of the Seven Days when general Joseph Johnston was wounded. It was basically a series of promotions over which he had little control, save that he could have left military service entirely. From his own perspective, his native country, Virginia, was being invaded and he was fighting to defend it. It's important, I think, to recognize the perspective of historical figures -- they lack access to the information we have, and can only be judged morally the standards of their own times. Dracula (the historical figure, not Bram Stoker's creation) impaled his enemies on long spikes -- this is brutal savagery by our modern perspective, but was a moral way to discourage further invasions in his own view. Yes, Lee defended slavery. So what?

Funny...are you thinking Lee was drafted? He certainly accepted his commission....if you want to split hairs over whether he joined or not...go ahead.

On 21 April Governor John Letcher of Virginia dispatched a messenger offering Lee command of the military and naval forces of the state, with the rank of major general, but the messenger evidently passed Lee while the latter was en route from Arlington to Richmond in response to an earlier invitation from the governor. Lee accepted the commission from Letcher’s hand on 22 April.

http://www.anb.org/view/10.1093/anb/9780198606697.001.0001/anb-9780198606697-e-0400622

 

[EatTheRich]

From the pre-Civil War perspective, the United States were no more a "nation" than we would consider the European Union a nation today. The South, yes for reasons that involved slavery as an issue among others, wanted its own version of "Brexit." Political options could have been tried, and probably would have been successful. It would have made two different organizations of states, and one would have succumbed to the other economically over time (slavery is much less efficient than industry, which the North had).

Compromises were tried for decades before the unconstitutional expedient of secession was arrived upon. And the Confederates soon made it clear that they weren’t just going to go their way, but they were going to keep attacking loyal parts of the U.S., starting with Texas where they carried out secession without the consent of the lawfully elected government.