The government didn’t own slaves, so it didn’t wrong them. Private owners, all dead since at least the 1920s, did that. The government, under the rules that existed before the Civil War, had no authority to interfere with the internal laws of the states, and it was state laws that determined whether or not slavery was allowed. The federal government hence wronged no one and owes nothing to them.We've gone over this already before.
When the govt wrongs someone, and that person is no more, any restitution goes to their family.
Descendants are that family.
Restitution should come from those who wronged the recipient. The government has no money of its own...it has MY money. The government can only pay restitution using taxpayer money.We've gone over this already before.
When the govt wrongs someone, and that person is no more, any restitution goes to their family.
Descendants are that family.
1. Who ever said it was exclusively "their land" ?Do you deny the rights of Native Americans to receive reparations for their stolen land, even if the individuals who were forced from the land are no longer alive ?
By that I mean did that land belong to a people with the ownership of that land passing down to the next generations ? Or was that land never theirs to keep ?
Is the income from YOUR labor yours to pass on to future generations and theirs to receive ?
Do you believe thievery to be a legitimate form of acquisition leading to rightful ownership ?
I said American chattel slavery was unique.
I have described the horrific ways in which it was unique to this land.
Do you know that the word motherfucker comes from the stories that in some cases sons were forced to breed with their own mothers on those breeding farms ?
There is no such thing as money being "repaid" to people who are not owed anything, and are nothing more than greedy, grabby, spoiled brats, who have never been told "NO", by pandering liberals like you.Reparation not being revenue neutral is a big so what ?
When have any reparations ever been revenue neutral ?
The promise is that the principle will be repaid in full.
This calls for no retribution.
The benefit will be shared with other groups which is also something that is not supposed to happen in reparations. Especially when you share the benefit with group who from which the wrong originated. That is simply unheard of.
I thought you doubted the existence of the unique system of slavery practiced in America. Normally slavers invade a country, do their harm and eventually leave.
In America the enslavers were the occupants of the land. They were never going to leave and their intentions were to never let those they enslaved leave bondage. They intended that the enslaved would live forever, as property, no better than the other animals they bred.
I guess you could call it the prime example of our American exceptionalism, we speak of so often.
The US govt surely took action when it came to enforcing slavery by both law and it's action.The government didn’t own slaves, so it didn’t wrong them. Private owners, all dead since at least the 1920s, did that. The government, under the rules that existed before the Civil War, had no authority to interfere with the internal laws of the states, and it was state laws that determined whether or not slavery was allowed. The federal government hence wronged no one and owes nothing to them.
You missed the original top post.Restitution should come from those who wronged the recipient. The government has no money of its own...it has MY money. The government can only pay restitution using taxpayer money.
So if someone comes and kills off your family and steal all that is yours, you should be grateful that the savages who did that will now force you to live like they do.1. Who ever said it was exclusively "their land" ?
2. Native Americans living today have ALREADY RECEIVED REPARATIONS, by virtue of being lucky enough to be living under the conditions brought to them by European immigrants and their descendants.
How manyNative Americans would like to go back to how their ancestors lived, before white European colonizers came along, and rescued them from the stone age existence they were living in ? How many would be cool with living without electricity, electric lighting, indoor plumbing, indoor heat and air conditioning, TV, radio, computers, cellphones, automobiles, airplanes, good shoes/clothing, and modern medical care ?
Sure, wanna go back to tents, mudhuts, communication by smoke signals, horse transportation, and getting food by throwing spears at deer ? Dum dums are BENEFICIARIES of colonialism, and they don't even know it. Knotheads didn't even have the wheel before white Europeans contacted them. Best thing that ever happened to them.
If you have a problem with AA then take it up with the govt. Black Americans didn't create it, the US govt and private companies did. Funny how in your mind whites are owed for AA but owe nothing for their murder, enslavement and subjugation against women and minorities since they stepped foot on this land.There is no such thing as money being "repaid" to people who are not owed anything, and are nothing more than greedy, grabby, spoiled brats, who have never been told "NO", by pandering liberals like you.
Where was slavery codified in the constitution or US law? Typically it was in state law, not federal.The US govt surely took action when it came to enforcing slavery by both law and it's action.
It had a chance to abondon slavery at the founding of the nation.
If they have no authority then the Constitution isn't the supreme law of the land.
But we both know that is not true.
Slavery was not happenstance it was intentional and codified in law by this US govt.
If you say this was not the wrong of all wrongs and our original sin.
Then there is no wrong you can say this govt has ever done.
Because everything it has ever done or allowed to be done to others pales in comparison, EVERYTHING !
Enslaved black were 3/5ths a person under the Constitution.Where was slavery codified in the constitution or US law? Typically it was in state law, not federal.
Again, the people who had slaves are the ones who should pay reparations. The ones who profited from slavery as well. I did not.
The 3/5ths calculation was a compromise driven by the slave states.Enslaved black were 3/5ths a person under the Constitution.
The US govt recognized slavery from its founding.
But the proposal take nothing from others.
It is a loan to be repaid based upon taxes paid by the descendants of slaves.
I don't know the argument against blacks temporarily using money they paid to the govt to repair what the govt did to them. It is a gift, not a retribution.
It's also a bargain. For that same 75 yrs period blacks were taxed at 100% without representation by this govt. How is it not fair to allow them that same 75 yrs of representation without taxation ? It's not even without taxation. It in truth just delayed taxation.
Now if the govt wants to tax those who profited from slavery, it has been free to do so for hundreds of years. Yet it has not. Do you actually think they ever will ? IN the meantime the harms still fester.
It is easy to point out the problems in the black community.
Yet it is so hard to recognize that they did not come from nowhere and that those who look upon it would be no better off had it been what had been done to blacks for centuries, had been done to their group.
Why not address the harm instead of trying to dodge the blame ?
Regardless of who pushed it, it was included in the Constitution and inseparable from the founding of this nation and the establishment of its laws.The 3/5ths calculation was a compromise driven by the slave states.
So somehow you think the government has taxes paid by descendants of slaves in a bank account somewhere? Your funds to pay them are smoke and mirrors. The money would come out of my pocket.
Many people in this country have lived in poverty upon arriving here. There have been ghettos for the Irish, the Chinese, the Jews. Women got the right to vote in 1920. Should they also get reparations for the years they were taxed without representation?
You want to fix something? Try funding schools in a manner that is fair and not dependent on real estate values.
Native Americans living today are not experiencing > " theft, murder and subjugation"So if someone comes and kills off your family and steal all that is yours, you should be grateful that the savages who did that will now force you to live like they do.
You share what you have through trade.
Yet you think theft, murder and subjugation is sharing, and some how not theft and murder.
So where is the money you suggest be found?Regardless of who pushed it, it was included in the Constitution and inseparable from the founding of this nation and the establishment of its laws.
If it didn't come out of your pocket when it was paid to the govt, then how is being paid by you when its returned to those taxpayers ? Do you consider all tax refunds as having come from your pocket ?
This is about reparations for Chattel Slavery.
This was a condition that was imposed upon ONE GROUP AND ONE GROUP ONLY in the history of this nation. Again which Irish, the Chinese, the Jewish father could rape the mother of their child and then sell their child at auction because he was Irish, Chinese, or Jewish ? Which of them were made 3/5ths a person by our Constitution ? Which of them had their entire history of their people erased from the culture ? They get to be Irish or Chinese or Jewish because they have a cultural history of being those peoples. Black Americans were denied a history. Instead their history is as property and that of the most oppressed and abused people in the only nation they have even known.
Slavery & Jim Crow are things of the long ago past. Nobody who was a slave is alive today. Almost nobody alive today, experienced Jim Crow.If you have a problem with AA then take it up with the govt. Black Americans didn't create it, the US govt and private companies did. Funny how in your mind whites are owed for AA but owe nothing for their murder, enslavement and subjugation against women and minorities since they stepped foot on this land.
Why do you think that way ?
So for hundreds of year millions of people did not have their labor and its value stolen through enslavement ?
Why tell that lie ?
Yeah, America has really spoiled its black citizens.
Slavery for 200 yrs
Jim Crow for another 100 yrs
The War of Drugs for the next 50 yrs after that.
Yeah, that sure is some pandering and coddling they've received for centuries.
It's like the pampering has never let up since the were kidnapped and enslaved here.
You complained about then conceded that what I said happened, happened. No need to try and make excuses for it.Native Americans living today are not experiencing > " theft, murder and subjugation"
And who says what land European settlers got, had belonged to anybody ? Actually, the great majority of European settlements were far away from where American Indians lived.
As for genocide, if you are referring to American Indians, that is one of the worst exaggrerated ideas of American history there ever has been. Generally, Whites only attacked Indians in self-defense. It didn't do them any good to kill Indians.
By far, most American Indians in contact with European migrants died of European diseases, for which the locals had built up no biological defenses for. Unfortunate as it may have been, it doesn't comport with the meaning of "genocide or murder", which is a more intentional thing.
Yes, there were the Trail of Tears, but that was one facet of the overall picture, which liberals, like you now, try to use to demonize all of 19th century white America. For your edification, the overwhelming majority of contacts between White Europeans and American Indians were peaceful. The great majority of 19th century American Indians lived their entire lives many miles away from White settlements, and never laid eyes on a white person.
The genocide that you speak of is true, but it was relatively small in number, and is exaggerated due to the dime store novel industry, which made a fortune selling books to Easteners about the wild west. It was only the warring and violence books that sold the most copies. The ones about peace, trading, intermarriage, etc, didn't sell well. Consequently, people thought that the violence was all there was, due to the prevelance of it in the books they read.
As for genocide against American Indian tribes, they suffered that far more from other rival tribes, for hundreds of years, before a single European ship arrived in the "New World".
Secondly, the arrival of Europeans is one of the best things that ever happened to native Americans of the 20th and 21st centuries. How many of them currently choose to live in teepees, hunt game to survive, ride horses for transportation, wear clothing they made themselves from animal skins, and rely on witch doctors instead of trained American doctors in hospitals ?
And how many of them living today, have never watched a TV show, listened to a radio, listened to a music recording, never heard of a guitar or violin, never touched a computer ?
Without European arrival and contact, they'd probably still be living their prehistoric technology level, without the wheel, without hard walls and roofs, without indoor plumbing, etc, as they did for thousands of years, up until the 20th century.