I'm completely in favor of slavery reparations . . .

[trapdoor]

Really -- I don't recall my father getting any compensation for his unequal opportunity. He was white, but that had little to do with his opportunities in life. His father was a sharecropper who was also an abusive alcoholic. Dad was the youngest of ten kids, and he left the family home at 13 to work on a farm for room and board and a small salary. In his late teens he worked as a produce manager for a grocery store, and then he spent 31 years as a truck driver for various truck lines. He died of lung disease at 59. Where's the compensation for his poverty, the money that would have sent him to school to build a better life?
None, simply because of the color of his skin, right? Balance that.

And they go silent

 

[EatTheRich]

Really -- I don't recall my father getting any compensation for his unequal opportunity. He was white, but that had little to do with his opportunities in life. His father was a sharecropper who was also an abusive alcoholic. Dad was the youngest of ten kids, and he left the family home at 13 to work on a farm for room and board and a small salary. In his late teens he worked as a produce manager for a grocery store, and then he spent 31 years as a truck driver for various truck lines. He died of lung disease at 59. Where's the compensation for his poverty, the money that would have sent him to school to build a better life?
None, simply because of the color of his skin, right? Balance that.

If we don’t overcome the racial division in the working class by making the rulers end racist patterns of oppression, we’ll never have the power to seize the wealth of the rulers and redistribute it to people like your father.

 

[Spamature]

If we don’t overcome the racial division in the working class by making the rulers end racist patterns of oppression, we’ll never have the power to seize the wealth of the rulers and redistribute it to people like your father.

Reparation isn't about fixing the whole world.
I think it is extremely insulting to always put everyone else's problems before those of black Americans. Why is it when it comes to this problem people see it as an opportunity to right all society rather than just focusing on this single issue and none other. That is the biggest obstacle from both those that oppose reparations, and those that claim to support reparations, the sudden need to put all other ills on the back of a solution for the ills of the descendants of slavery.

Can't they just have something that is just for them, ONCE ?
Chattel Slavery was just for them exclusively, but the solutions always have to include fixes for everyone else.

 

[trapdoor]

If we don’t overcome the racial division in the working class by making the rulers end racist patterns of oppression, we’ll never have the power to seize the wealth of the rulers and redistribute it to people like your father.

Yes, that's a nice neo-Marxist sentiment, but it has nothing to do with my question. You're (at least in this thread) calling for reparations to the descendents of slaves. All that would do would be to burden the descendents of people who are not remote in history -- my grandfather, the abusive sharecropper died in 1979. His oldest daughter is still alive. These people, including my late father, represent a generation (more, really) of people who had to work themselves out of a grinding poverty that a person like yourself never experienced nor could understand. Where is there reparations? None -- they had the misfortunate not to be descended from slaves, but to be four or five generations removed from someone who owned slaves. And it is these people and their families who will bear the costs of reparations, no matter how poor they began.

 

[Dawg]

If we don’t overcome the racial division in the working class by making the rulers end racist patterns of oppression, we’ll never have the power to seize the wealth of the rulers and redistribute it to people like your father.

There will be no money for slavery reparations, the lame duck Congress is spending all the reparation money on Gays or at least trying too before they leave.

12 woke earmarks in omnibus spending bill (msn.com)

Slavery is old news today it's all about gays and trannies!

 

[Sunset Rose]

I hear President Biden is going to give President Zelensky 45 Billion for the war in Ukraine. I think he has already given Ukraine several billions already.
Strange how the USA can always find money to help other folks, but can never find the money for reparations.
I am not against helping the Ukrainians. But, this sure seems to show where the USA's priorities are.

 

[Dawg]

I hear President Biden is going to give President Zelensky 45 Billion for the war in Ukraine. I think he has already given Ukraine several billions already.
Strange how the USA can always find money to help other folks, but can never find the money for reparations.
I am not against helping the Ukrainians. But, this sure seems to show where the USA's priorities are.

yeah, never money for homeless Veterans, but, plenty for other countries and another little baby is born in the Ghettos forgotten

Spam has never heard of the DRAFT

 

[Spamature]

yeah, never money for homeless Veterans, but, plenty for other countries and another little baby is born in the Ghettos

And NONE for reparation for the worst crime in US history.
At least the vets had the choice of volunteering to join up.
Slaves had no choice and were forced to give their all for to enrich America for their entire lives. Furthermore, when freed, they were treated worse than any veteran has ever been treated.

Why does anyone think any life lived in this country's history compares to the harsh lives reserved for those it enslaved ?

It doesn't, and whining that is does, makes them look ignorant and or utterly dishonest and deceitful.

 

[SW48]

View attachment 73228

Levar Burton was paid approx $20Kfor his role as Kunta Kinte in the mini series "Roots".
He went on to earn much more as a lead character in Star Trek.
HIs net worth is estimated at $8 million, not including his mansion in Sherman Oaks, CA.
Levar Burton would be eligible for "slavery reparations" under California's proposed plan.​

I'm completely in favor of slavery reparations . . .

But the current approach is untenable. Will 50 states have 50 different standards for qualification, and different payout formulas? California seems to be in the forefront of this issue – even though they were always a free state, and never had slavery. What's to stop black Americans from moving to California by the millions to get “their share”? The same sort of internal migration that is happening into legalized pot states to camp on sidewalks, collect welfare benefits, etc?

Reparations is an issue that needs guardrails around it – a national standard. I don't want some future supreme court case (“Ho v. Quaid”?) muddying the waters with a razor thin majority decision. One which declares some state programs legal, other illegal, and still others subject to 25 years of future litigation, as politicians hope for a “rebalancing” of the justices between political parties.

So . . in the interest of helping our great nation arrive at an equitable solution which applies to ALL states, here goes my list of suggestions

1. You cannnot collect slavery reparations if you moved here after the civil war. Period. Hard stop. Your ancestors were never slaves. And don't hurry to get your nieces and cousins over before the payout. Limited to ACTUAL descendants of slaves, not posers.
   
2. You cannot collect slavery reparations if you are in jail for a capital offense like murder. Or are a drug kingpin. Or have a net worth of millions because you're a big time rapper, Neo Nazi sneaker endorser, sports superstar, famous actor, etc. Back of the bus for you guys.
   
3. If you're behind on child support, your reparations check goes FIRST to your baby momma and her struggling kids. If there's any money left over, you can laugh all the way to the bank, homie . ..
   
4. A special tax – either one time, or ongoing – must be approved by congress to pay for slavery reparations. We are so NOT adding trillions more to the national debt because of this. Each american family already owes $300,000 in accululated federal debt– this is why we're all living paycheck to paycheck. And no cutting federal funding for things like public schools, medical care, veterans benefits, etc. to cover reparations. These are important programs too.
   
5. The new tax – if and when it is implemented – is only applicable to you if your white ancestors arrived BEFORE the civil war. If they were refugees from world war 1, world war 2, korea, vietnam, etc … you can put a big fat zero in this line item on your tax return.
6. Acceptance of the reparations payment, and/or depositing the check, releases all federal, county, and municipal governments from future lalitigation and liability over slavery. It is not an admission of guilt – reparations are a good faith effort to redress grievous mistakes made by a bunch of people who died hundreds of years ago.
   
7. Chinese “coolie” labor, used to build parts of the transcontinental railroad, is not covered by this program
   
8. Whites who were brought to America under similar contract worker programs during colonial times are also excluded from collecting reparations – nannies; farmhands; lumberjacks; miners; shipwrights; stonemasons – these men (and women) were paid for their work, and in many cases got free land when their contracts were up. Some even went on to own slaves . .
   
9. Current H1B work visa holders are not eligible under this program. You may, in fact, be getting paid “below average wages” compared to native born programmers, engineers, and doctors . . .but you went into this with your eyes open. Look before you leap. You are NOT a slave, you're simply an exploited worker. And less exploited than uber drivers, Starbucks baristas, and amazon “pickers”.
   

Native Americans – Sorry, but I don't have a good answer for you. Most of YOUR ancestors stole their ancestral hunting grounds from other, more peaceful tribes, and kidnapped their women, and tortured their men to death. You should be ashamed. Continue to litigate, if you think you can make a case. We will watch your progress with “great interest”, as emperor Palpatine put it in that Star Wars prequel.

Are we good then? Still want to proceed? Okay – I see a hand up in the back. Yes – Rhode Island – what is your question? Okay, I heard that – this week one of your Latinx politicians proposed slavery reparations, even though you were among the most northern and free-est liberal states among the 13 colonies. WTF are you thinking? You even proposed payouts to white Rhode Island residents. Explain to me – and to America – why this isn't just some crazy stunt to swing votes in an election. I'm waiting . ..

I am in favor as long as it doesn't go on the national debt. If they remove something from the budget and then replace that something with reparations.

 

[Spamature]

I am in favor as long as it doesn't go on the national debt. If they remove something from the budget and then replace that something with reparations.

If you believe in reparations, then you accept the fact that they are a rightfully owed debt that existed prior to the current debt.

Meaning, the current deficits and debt you speak of were added onto the rightful debt owed that already existed, not the other way around.

It has never been about money, we spent trillions in Iraq in a little more than a decade, and we've already put that episode in history behind us and the debt for it has been accepted as indivisible from any other past spending.

The question has always been our morality in the face of our own immorality, and which really represent us as the American people.

 

[Dawg]

And NONE for reparation for the worst crime in US history.
At least the vets had the choice of volunteering to join up.
Slaves had no choice and were forced to give their all for to enrich America for their entire lives. Furthermore, when freed, they were treated worse than any veteran has ever been treated.

Where slaves DRAFTED and you lied of "at least the vets had the choice of volunteering to join up" pure LIE.

Slaves were sold to slave traders by their African Kings. the African Kings need pay reparations. Remember the Obama's in Kenya were BIG slave traders they need pay up as well with their profits!

 

[Spamature]

Where slaves DRAFTED and you lied of "at least the vets had the choice of volunteering to join up" pure LIE.

Slaves were sold to slave traders by their African Kings. the African Kings need pay reparations. Remember the Obama's in Kenya were BIG slave traders they need pay up as well with their profits!

Yes, slaves were drafted by our govt. to fight in the civil war.

POWs were sold/traded to slave traders, who then turned those POWs into slaves when they reached this land and sold to the people who enslaved them.

I debunked that in the other thread when I showed you that Kenya is in East Africa and the slaves taken to America came from the West Coast of Africa.
The distance between the region where Africans for the American slave trade were transported to the US and Kenya is over 2000 miles. It simply did not happen, but apparently you do not care that you are repeating a falsehood.

 

[EatTheRich]

Yes, that's a nice neo-Marxist sentiment, but it has nothing to do with my question. You're (at least in this thread) calling for reparations to the descendents of slaves. All that would do would be to burden the descendents of people who are not remote in history -- my grandfather, the abusive sharecropper died in 1979. His oldest daughter is still alive. These people, including my late father, represent a generation (more, really) of people who had to work themselves out of a grinding poverty that a person like yourself never experienced nor could understand. Where is there reparations? None -- they had the misfortunate not to be descended from slaves, but to be four or five generations removed from someone who owned slaves. And it is these people and their families who will bear the costs of reparations, no matter how poor they began.

No. They will reap the benefits accruing to the non-rich of all races from reparations, which will make it far easier for them to escape poverty.

 

[Dawg]

Yes, slaves were drafted by our govt. to fight in the civil war.

POWs were sold/traded to slave traders, who then turned those POWs into slaves when they reached this land and sold to the people who enslaved them.

I debunked that in the other thread when I showed you that Kenya is in East Africa and the slaves taken to America came from the West Coast of Africa.
The distance between the region where Africans for the American slave trade were transported to the US and Kenya is over 2000 miles. It simply did not happen, but apparently you do not care that you are repeating a falsehood.

Slave traders didn't import slaves to where they were in Kenya
They traded them from where they were to dem plantations in America, both white and black slave Masa's

10 African nations involved in the slave trade - Think Africa

 

[Spamature]

Slave traders didn't import slaves to where they were in Kenya
They traded them from where they were to dem plantations in America, both white and black slave Masa's

10 African nations involved in the slave trade - Think Africa

So you think Kenyan when into other kingdoms thousands of miles from any support, captured the people of those lands, travelled thousands of miles in someone else's territory to then be sold, without being slaughtered by their warriors and the kingdoms taking their people back from them ? It doesn't sound like it would make a practical base for income. Also I don't see Kenya on your list.

This is not about the 10 long gone kingdoms in Africa.

You would be on topic if you discussed the 13 states in the US refused to free them, and instead wanted slavery to continue forever when they formed the Confederacy. Unlike those kingdoms, those states are still here. Here is all that matters, not Africa. Here you are trying to claim that it is someone else's fault that our govt allowed its people to be enslaved here in America.

Stop blaming another country for what this country did on its own soil.
The shame is all ours and no one else's.

 

[trapdoor]

No. They will reap the benefits accruing to the non-rich of all races from reparations, which will make it far easier for them to escape poverty.

They already escaped poverty. Now you're asking them to pay reparations to people who weren't victims of the crime for which the reparations are being paid. How they reap any profit from that would be a complete mystery.

 

[EatTheRich]

They already escaped poverty. Now you're asking them to pay reparations to people who weren't victims of the crime for which the reparations are being paid. How they reap any profit from that would be a complete mystery.

Blacks ARE oppressed by the ongoing effects of slavery and resulting intergenerational systemic discrimination. And that oppression is foundational for the wealth of the capitalists and landlords who should by rights pay all taxes.

 

[trapdoor]

Blacks ARE oppressed by the ongoing effects of slavery and resulting intergenerational systemic discrimination. And that oppression is foundational for the wealth of the capitalists and landlords who should by rights pay all taxes.

Blacks and other minorities face racism, not “ongoing effects of slavery” which has no ongoing effects. You either are a slave or you aren’t.

 

[EatTheRich]

Blacks and other minorities face racism, not “ongoing effects of slavery” which has no ongoing effects. You either are a slave or you aren’t.

Slavery had a profound shaping effect on the basic institutions of the United States, the capitalist world order, the patriarchy, organized religion, and imperialism, which creates structural boundaries to racial equality. The lack of equality and the ideological perspective deployed in defense of these institutions give rise to race prejudice and the individual acts of discrimination reliably evoked by the systems of economic, political, and ideological control they gave rise to.

 

[trapdoor]

Slavery had a profound shaping effect on the basic institutions of the United States, the capitalist world order, the patriarchy, organized religion, and imperialism, which creates structural boundaries to racial equality. The lack of equality and the ideological perspective deployed in defense of these institutions give rise to race prejudice and the individual acts of discrimination reliably evoked by the systems of economic, political, and ideological control they gave rise to.

Yes, and it ended, and those institutions changed, and all of that happened 150 years ago.