God of War
Governor
You can oppose it but you can't do anything about it.
That said SCOTUS and all the other courts better find themselves more circumspect about their behavior.
Is a peace agreement within America possible ?
- Thread starter Spamature
- Start date
That said SCOTUS and all the other courts better find themselves more circumspect about their behavior.
most of see the damage you have done by your baseless claims. Trump should admit he lost or go down as the worst president in history.
condorkristy
Mostly Liberal
With absolutists; there is no compromise that is to be accepted. Its a foregone conclusion that some right winger will mow down a bunch of people again in the name of what is "righteous". The only open questions are the following:
- Will it have legs--meaning that will someone well known/able to broadcast their own murder get murdered during it and cause enough outrage to move a needle.
- What the overall body count will be
- How will the right wing rationalize the killings/deny the killings ever took place and try to substitute a secondary reality (see "crisis actors"/"it wasn't an insurrection"/"covid is a hoax"/"the election was stolen"/"the birth certificate was a forgery" for examples)
God of War
Governor
God of War
Governor
Hey, Dippy, Waukesha was a lefty gone bonkers.
I read or at least scanned all of this long thread before taking the time to comment. I have a friend who used to comment here under the screen name Degsme. He and I created our own forum on Facebook, in part so we could have closed discussions among people without descending into absolutism and name calling.
We did a lengthy discussion there on whether the primary opposing sides in the U.S. political sphere share any common values.
I think they do, but it's hard to reconcile the values because each side has a different approach to achieving those values.
We all want peace, prosperity, freedom of speech, etc. Where we differ is in how we approach achieving them.
I'm going to ask some leeway here as I'm going to paint with a very broad brush to get at what I mean.
Conservatives believe the government should, insofar as possible. leave them be unless they're causing direct (not indirect) harm to someone. They believe that violence is part of the human condition, cannot be eliminated via legislation, and that in a violent world, people should be able to be armed to defend themselves. They believe in a restricted view of the Constitution in which the government is limited in its powers and new powers can be accreted via amendment -- and that too much extra constitutional authority has been ceded over time to bureaucrats who can, with the stroke of a pen, create regulations which have the force of law. They feel they are being taxed not merely to support the poor, but to support an "unworthy poor" part of the population via intergenerational welfare. I could go on at length, and suffice it to say I find some of these arguments compelling.
Liberals believe the government should be empowered to do good -- that rather than being a backdrop to the actions of society, it should be a catalyst for social change. To that end, if there is a problem with limited medical care, the government should act to expand medical care; if there is a problem with racism, it is the government's role to act against racism; if poverty is a concern, the government should step in to ameliorate its affects.
They believe that violence is a problem government should act to control and that the people carrying weapons is a cause of additional violence. They believe that experts in fields such as the environment, education and science should be empowered to write regulations to address issues in the fields in which they are experts.
I could go on at length but suffice it to say that I find some of these arguments compelling.
And I think the crux of the so-called culture war lies in the area where liberals believe that government should act as a catalyst for social change. It is not enough, in the liberal view, that we make racist practices illegal --we have to compel racists to change their way of thinking. If LGBTQ rights are endangered, we have to change the very structure of language to incorporate different pronouns. "Change, or change will be forced upon you."
And this provokes some of the comments earlier in this thread where people desire to be left alone. "Wokeness" brooks no compromise, no allowance for evolution in views. It is omnipresent, omnicurrent and omnicritical. We are told that any traditional view from "free speech" to critical reasoning skills are "something that was created by racist white men."
In doing so, hell, for all I know the liberals might be right in their ends, but they are clearly wrong in both the pacing of achieving those ends and the methodology they'd like to use to achieve it. People were merely annoyed 50 years ago when they couldn't have a creche on the firehouse lawn, and they had to move baccalaureate off school grounds -- they've moved from that to downright pissed off with attempting to force them to change their views on social matters, to exclude parents from input on their children's education, and to education children in only the negative, racist portions of U.S. history. That's setting aside the lunacy of the "green new deal" in which they want people to give up cars and air travel, rewire their homes, etc. They have, in short, gone too far.
Reading to this point seems like I'm letting conservatives off the hook. Not true. Conservatives have hypocritically stepped away from the small-government foundation that gives them a valid reason for existing as a political entity. They have embraced a racism that is obvious and has no place in the modern political spectrum (in the process alienating millions of Hispanics and Asians who would otherwise find their political home in the conservative movement.) They have repudiated the well-established science of vaccinations in favor of pseudo-science, thereby lengthening and worsening the ongoing COVID pandemic. They may not have gone too far, but they're nearing that end.
Compromise? Compromise can't happen for a while. Right now, neither side agrees on the ground facts. Many conservatives have been convinced, for years that precede Donald Trump's candidacy by at least two decades, that nothing they see in the news media comes without a liberal media bias, sometimes to the point of excluding fact. Liberals have become convinced that only certain liberal sources contain fact. As conservative and liberal news outlets frequently disagree on what is factual, too, there is nothing about which to compromise. Who's at fault? Both damn sides, that's who.
To liberals -- Quit being elitists. Quit expecting people to agree with something you've said just because you've said it. There are other ways of looking at the world than that "social democracy" is the perfect form of government. Individuals can be free of the nanny state looking over every move and still be fine. Quit trying to change people, as individuals, and quit trying to horn in on people's private lives. Some things are none of your business. Finally address the real problem of liberal bias in media. Media should be the neutral place that has facts people can trust -- you wont' find that in an environment where 75 percent of the staff identifies as Democrat and the rest is "independent, leaning liberal," a fair description of newsroom demographics outside Fox News.
To conservatives -- Quit embracing racism. Quit denying facts. Global warming and the pandemic are real, and it's going to take more than simply burying your head in the sand to solve them. GET YOUR DAMN COVID VACCINE. It works, it reduces the chance of getting the disease by 18,000 percent according to reliable statistics. Quit ignoring viable news sources like "the Big Three," CNN and NYT. Quit putting all your faith in Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity -- entertainers who have no penalty for lying to you, and no ethical requirement to even TRY to deliver fact.
If the last two sentences in the last two paragraphs were able to affect the public in any significant way, we'd be nearing the entry to a road where we could find compromise. Tragically, that's unlikely. People prefer to have their biases reinforced and we now have customized news feeds that reinforce both liberal and conservative viewpoints -- isolating them further from each other.
We did a lengthy discussion there on whether the primary opposing sides in the U.S. political sphere share any common values.
I think they do, but it's hard to reconcile the values because each side has a different approach to achieving those values.
We all want peace, prosperity, freedom of speech, etc. Where we differ is in how we approach achieving them.
I'm going to ask some leeway here as I'm going to paint with a very broad brush to get at what I mean.
Conservatives believe the government should, insofar as possible. leave them be unless they're causing direct (not indirect) harm to someone. They believe that violence is part of the human condition, cannot be eliminated via legislation, and that in a violent world, people should be able to be armed to defend themselves. They believe in a restricted view of the Constitution in which the government is limited in its powers and new powers can be accreted via amendment -- and that too much extra constitutional authority has been ceded over time to bureaucrats who can, with the stroke of a pen, create regulations which have the force of law. They feel they are being taxed not merely to support the poor, but to support an "unworthy poor" part of the population via intergenerational welfare. I could go on at length, and suffice it to say I find some of these arguments compelling.
Liberals believe the government should be empowered to do good -- that rather than being a backdrop to the actions of society, it should be a catalyst for social change. To that end, if there is a problem with limited medical care, the government should act to expand medical care; if there is a problem with racism, it is the government's role to act against racism; if poverty is a concern, the government should step in to ameliorate its affects.
They believe that violence is a problem government should act to control and that the people carrying weapons is a cause of additional violence. They believe that experts in fields such as the environment, education and science should be empowered to write regulations to address issues in the fields in which they are experts.
I could go on at length but suffice it to say that I find some of these arguments compelling.
And I think the crux of the so-called culture war lies in the area where liberals believe that government should act as a catalyst for social change. It is not enough, in the liberal view, that we make racist practices illegal --we have to compel racists to change their way of thinking. If LGBTQ rights are endangered, we have to change the very structure of language to incorporate different pronouns. "Change, or change will be forced upon you."
And this provokes some of the comments earlier in this thread where people desire to be left alone. "Wokeness" brooks no compromise, no allowance for evolution in views. It is omnipresent, omnicurrent and omnicritical. We are told that any traditional view from "free speech" to critical reasoning skills are "something that was created by racist white men."
In doing so, hell, for all I know the liberals might be right in their ends, but they are clearly wrong in both the pacing of achieving those ends and the methodology they'd like to use to achieve it. People were merely annoyed 50 years ago when they couldn't have a creche on the firehouse lawn, and they had to move baccalaureate off school grounds -- they've moved from that to downright pissed off with attempting to force them to change their views on social matters, to exclude parents from input on their children's education, and to education children in only the negative, racist portions of U.S. history. That's setting aside the lunacy of the "green new deal" in which they want people to give up cars and air travel, rewire their homes, etc. They have, in short, gone too far.
Reading to this point seems like I'm letting conservatives off the hook. Not true. Conservatives have hypocritically stepped away from the small-government foundation that gives them a valid reason for existing as a political entity. They have embraced a racism that is obvious and has no place in the modern political spectrum (in the process alienating millions of Hispanics and Asians who would otherwise find their political home in the conservative movement.) They have repudiated the well-established science of vaccinations in favor of pseudo-science, thereby lengthening and worsening the ongoing COVID pandemic. They may not have gone too far, but they're nearing that end.
Compromise? Compromise can't happen for a while. Right now, neither side agrees on the ground facts. Many conservatives have been convinced, for years that precede Donald Trump's candidacy by at least two decades, that nothing they see in the news media comes without a liberal media bias, sometimes to the point of excluding fact. Liberals have become convinced that only certain liberal sources contain fact. As conservative and liberal news outlets frequently disagree on what is factual, too, there is nothing about which to compromise. Who's at fault? Both damn sides, that's who.
To liberals -- Quit being elitists. Quit expecting people to agree with something you've said just because you've said it. There are other ways of looking at the world than that "social democracy" is the perfect form of government. Individuals can be free of the nanny state looking over every move and still be fine. Quit trying to change people, as individuals, and quit trying to horn in on people's private lives. Some things are none of your business. Finally address the real problem of liberal bias in media. Media should be the neutral place that has facts people can trust -- you wont' find that in an environment where 75 percent of the staff identifies as Democrat and the rest is "independent, leaning liberal," a fair description of newsroom demographics outside Fox News.
To conservatives -- Quit embracing racism. Quit denying facts. Global warming and the pandemic are real, and it's going to take more than simply burying your head in the sand to solve them. GET YOUR DAMN COVID VACCINE. It works, it reduces the chance of getting the disease by 18,000 percent according to reliable statistics. Quit ignoring viable news sources like "the Big Three," CNN and NYT. Quit putting all your faith in Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity -- entertainers who have no penalty for lying to you, and no ethical requirement to even TRY to deliver fact.
If the last two sentences in the last two paragraphs were able to affect the public in any significant way, we'd be nearing the entry to a road where we could find compromise. Tragically, that's unlikely. People prefer to have their biases reinforced and we now have customized news feeds that reinforce both liberal and conservative viewpoints -- isolating them further from each other.
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Actually that isn't true....the IG said the initial application was justified and the extension was not.
1. We do not know what the guy's politics are. Is he even registered to vote? I'd bet not.
2. Was Jan 6 a few thousand right wingers gone bonkers? No doubt what their politics are.
Spamature
President
I suppose they would flip each other off.
More along those lines....quit hating people because they believe differently than you.
Look at conspiracy theories with a little bit of skepticism, would ya? Democrats are not eating babies. Stop accepting outlandish bullshit from people who are simply stirring the pot to make money....
God of War
Governor
I suppose Reagan these days would flip people off. That's how bad you people are.
God of War
Governor
1. We do know.
2. Because the election was stolen and they were illegally kept from entering congress and petitioning their elected officials.
1. Based on what? Link plz.
2. So you agree, they went bonkers, but you have an excuse...they wanted to "petition" their elected officials, who should stop what they are doing and wait until all 2,000 of these morons recite Q bullshit or the latest conspiracy theory from Giuliani or Powell about Martians stealing the election for Biden.
"Illegally kept from entering"? What law states that you are allowed to enter a government building at will? Show me that and then you have a leg to stand on.
God of War
Governor
1. Find his leftist proclivities on your own.
2. Tell it to the patriots of 1776 how they went bonkers. ha ha
Spamature
President
Is flipping off America one of your demands ?
God of War
Governor
Who said you were American? I find you guys to be the most un-American imaginable. There are Vietnamese mountain tribes more American than you guys these days. Look at what you defend? Look how you don't give a shit about concerns in the voting process? ha ha You people are globalists. You're not Americans.
Spamature
President
So you want to take away our citizenship ?
God of War
Governor
There is a difference between being an American and being American. It's subtle but you'll see if you think about it.
God of War
Governor
A for effort.
C+ content.
As long as that was the devil is in the details.
In three words... Democrats are globalists.
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Spamature
President
So your demands are:
Quit being elitists.
Quit expecting people to agree with something you've said just because you've said it.
Quit trying to change people, as individuals,
Quit trying to horn in on people's private lives.
Address the real problem of liberal bias in media outside of Fox News.
