Is what's happening in Baltimore part of a new norm?

[PhilFish]

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/042715-749842-stephanie-rawlings-blake-calls-for-space-for-those-who-destroy.htm

Rioting, destruction, looting, burning, violence, injury...

What's all over the news is disturbing, as is the commentary (of the mayor of the city)

Should we expect this outcome to become routine? and what should be done about it?


I support stronger tactics to secure the peace, quell violence, and capture and prosecute the perpetrators.

 

[as seen on tv]

The new norm apparently involves sharpton and mayors and lesser public officials nodding and saying "let it burn"

Full disclosure-Baltimore mayor Stephanie rawlings blake has enjoyed 24/7 police protection at her own home since taking office. Nevertheless about a year ago her husbands car was broken into and the radio was taken.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/042715-749842-stephanie-rawlings-blake-calls-for-space-for-those-who-destroy.htm

Rioting, destruction, looting, burning, violence, injury...

What's all over the news is disturbing, as is the commentary (of the mayor of the city)

Should we expect this outcome to become routine? and what should be done about it?


I support stronger tactics to secure the peace, quell violence, and capture and prosecute the perpetrators.

It could be a long, hot summer.

Rioting is obviously inexcusable, but we can expect much more of it if society does not seriously address the policing issues and their racial component.

 

[PhilFish]

It could be a long, hot summer.

Rioting is obviously inexcusable, but we can expect much more of it if society does not seriously address the policing issues and their racial component.

I agree. But will add that society needs to address the rioting issues as well.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Yes this is the new norm. Ferguson was the guiding example, and now it's "wash, rinse, repeat".

If a black person dies in police custody or from police force...
*Which is rare, as far more white people die from these instances.

1. Assign the worst possible motive and guilt to the police before the investigation has finished or even begun.
2. Bus in agitators to start the burning, media sound clips, and looting.
3. Expect the police to stop enforcing the law, stop protecting its citizens and their property on the grounds of fear of being labeled "racist" by the horrendously mischaracterizing media.
4. This will, by result, let these criminals "have their space" to attack other Americans and their property because their great, great, great, great grandparents might have been slaves once, so the stealing, assault, arson, and public terrorism are all justified.
5. The media will trumpet the narrative of how crooked and racist cops is a nationwide epidemic dominating every police force. It will also paint the picture of an epidemic involving black people being killed by police on every street corner of every major city every day by the urgency in coverage. Meanwhile, in reality, black people are rarely killed by police at all, and are actually saved by white police officers daily. Good, upstanding white police officers are slandered as racists by default.
6. People who take all of this in develop a skewed perspective, and an entire generation recites erroneous narratives, like write on or many Liberals on these forums.

Statistically, America's police has never been better, but the media has installed in the dim-witted that it's never been worse.

It's sad to see the American left so easily manipulated on this issue.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

I agree. But will add that society needs to address the rioting issues as well.

We do. Some 200 people were arrested, the NG was called in, black and white leaders have vocally condemned the rioting, etc.

I wish society so vigorously confronted and addressed racism and the policing issues.

 

[UPNYA2]

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/042715-749842-stephanie-rawlings-blake-calls-for-space-for-those-who-destroy.htm

Rioting, destruction, looting, burning, violence, injury...

What's all over the news is disturbing, as is the commentary (of the mayor of the city)

Should we expect this outcome to become routine? and what should be done about it?


I support stronger tactics to secure the peace, quell violence, and capture and prosecute the perpetrators.

"Is what's happening in Baltimore part of a new norm?"
In SOME places it most assuredly IS the new norm, no doubt about that.

"Should we expect this outcome to become routine?"
Absolutely.

"and what should be done about it?"
Like yourself I believe that what SHOULD be done about it is, "stronger tactics to secure the peace, quell violence, and capture and prosecute the perpetrators."
Unfortunately though, what you and I believe should be done clashes with what too many who are in the positions to make these decisions believe should be done. As we have all witnessed, too many in the position to actually do these things believe that allowing, even DEFENDING and PROTECTING, "Rioting, destruction, looting, burning, violence, injury...", is the best way to address these issues.

All of which makes me think that the inevitable solution, the only true way of ever defeating this ever increasing societal "wildfire" is rather than jumping right into it we should just pull back, secure ourselves a surrounding berm and let the fire consume all of the fuel within the area, burn itself out.

When these "protestors" find themselves alone, surrounded with only others like themselves, when there is no one willing to work and get "stuff" that the thugs can steal they will eventually turn on one another like the pack of wild dogs they resemble and the weaker will fall prey to the stronger until only a very few really bad remain.

At which point the National Guard can be justified in going in like it is a war zone and take care of the few.


But too many of us live too sheltered lives, they will never tolerate such a thing so this will not only continue, it will increase until our police simply refuse to take any action against any of some sub-sets of our society which will eventually also lead to the same outcome, it will just cost far more in destroyed property and loss of lives of those who wish this to just be better........

 

[Dino]

We do. Some 200 people were arrested, the NG was called in, black and white leaders have vocally condemned the rioting, etc.

I wish society so vigorously confronted and addressed racism and the policing issues.

What would u do if u had the power to "solve" the problem of "racism and the policing issues"?
Specifically, as u like to say.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

What would u do if u had the power to "solve" the problem of "racism and the policing issues"?
Specifically, as u like to say.

A top to bottom review of all police forces. Investigations to weed out the racists. Enhanced recruitment of minority police forces. Harsh prosecution of the racists. Better training for all police as to race issues and restraint.

What we tend to have instead is a blue wall of obstruction, rampant racism within police departments, kneejerk right wing defense of most instances of police violence against blacks, etc.

 

[Dino]

A top to bottom review of all police forces. Investigations to weed out the racists. Enhanced recruitment of minority police forces. Harsh prosecution of the racists. Better training for all police as to race issues and restraint.

What we tend to have instead is a blue wall of obstruction, rampant racism within police departments, kneejerk right wing defense of most instances of police violence against blacks, etc.

Generalized gobbledygook naturally.
"Right wing defense" of "violence against blacks"?? What hooey.

 

[Zam-Zam]

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/042715-749842-stephanie-rawlings-blake-calls-for-space-for-those-who-destroy.htm

Rioting, destruction, looting, burning, violence, injury...

What's all over the news is disturbing, as is the commentary (of the mayor of the city)

Should we expect this outcome to become routine? and what should be done about it?


I support stronger tactics to secure the peace, quell violence, and capture and prosecute the perpetrators.

Here's what Baltimore's mayor said:

"I ... instructed (the police) to do everything that they could to make sure that the protesters were able to exercise their right to free speech. ... We also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that."


I completely respect the first half of what she said, but the second half left me incredulous; How can a sitting mayor give a pass to wanton destruction of other people's property? Those other people are the ones who pay her salary - they should have a reasonable expectation that their property be protected against lawlessness. This seems to me to be a dereliction of duty, an abdication of responsibility. Baltimore has a police force that could use some cleaning up, and perhaps the mayor's office as well.

 

[Caroljo]

We do. Some 200 people were arrested, the NG was called in, black and white leaders have vocally condemned the rioting, etc.

I wish society so vigorously confronted and addressed racism and the policing issues.

Except Sharpton....he's up to his usually sh*t. I haven't seen where he's condemned what's going on....have you?

Rev. Al Sharpton is headed to Baltimore this week to meet with community leaders and plan a march from that city to Washington, D.C. to ramp up pressure on federal officials to take action on racial bias in policing.
Sharpton announced his plans Monday as Baltimore erupted into chaos on the same day as the funeral for Freddie Gray, the young black man from Baltimore who died in police custody. As businesses were looted and police cars destroyed and set on fire, community leaders were quick to condemn the rioting as unproductive to their cause.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/politics/al-sharpton-baltimore-march-freddie-gray/index.html

 

[oicu812]

it seems the agitators were from the nation of islam and 2 other gangs,,bloods and crips...

i suspect the members are known by police and nsa..

wait till they go home and deal with them in their homes...

 

[Caroljo]

Here's what Baltimore's mayor said:

"I ... instructed (the police) to do everything that they could to make sure that the protesters were able to exercise their right to free speech. ... We also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that."


I completely respect the first half of what she said, but the second half left me incredulous; How can a sitting mayor give a pass to wanton destruction of other people's property? Those other people are the ones who pay her salary - they should have a reasonable expectation that their property be protected against lawlessness. This seems to me to be a dereliction of duty, an abdication of responsibility. Baltimore has a police force that could use some cleaning up, and perhaps the mayor's office as well.

And now she's denied she said that. Typical liberal.

 

[oicu812]

Except Sharpton....he's up to his usually sh*t. I haven't seen where he's condemned what's going on....have you?

Rev. Al Sharpton is headed to Baltimore this week to meet with community leaders and plan a march from that city to Washington, D.C. to ramp up pressure on federal officials to take action on racial bias in policing.
Sharpton announced his plans Monday as Baltimore erupted into chaos on the same day as the funeral for Freddie Gray, the young black man from Baltimore who died in police custody. As businesses were looted and police cars destroyed and set on fire, community leaders were quick to condemn the rioting as unproductive to their cause.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/politics/al-sharpton-baltimore-march-freddie-gray/index.html

sharpton is one of the agitators that needs to be "purged"...just as the crips and bloods and nation of islam called for the purge of whites..

 

[connieb]

I agree. But will add that society needs to address the rioting issues as well.

I think the reality is we need to decide what we mean by policing.

As far as I am concerned - your beat cop position - is not about "keeping the peace" as much as it is about harassing and intimidating the people who OTHER people are calling you on. You have kids hanging around a parking lot - the store calls the cops - the Cops JOBS are to harass and run off those kids. Maybe give them a little scare - so they don't come back, etc. The problem is - we ask the cops to do those things.. then we bitch when we don't like how they accomplish that goal.

Similiar with stop and frisk. Which for the record I do think is probably unconstitutional. BUT - it was effective.

The trade off is - if you are not going to use police in the capacity they were used in the Freddie Gray case, in the Michael Brown case - where they are there to run off, intimidate and in general clear the streets of the riff raff, then don't use them to do that. BUT then also be willing to accept that there will be higher crime.

There was no excuse if they put him in that paddy wagon, then intentionally drove like nutcases to give him a rough ride. If that was the case, the officer should face charges.

But, there is precident that if you are in a high crime area, and a suspect runs for no reason - you can chase them and detain them. He was arrested because the police say he had a switchblade. But, they were within their rights, so it would seem to at least chase him down and tackle him if need be. And, on occasion, that may result in an injury, even a totally unexpected one. There was no evidence though that after they had him on the ground they were intentionally rough with him. That they had beat him. Watching them put him in the van they weren't nastily pushing and shoving him, etc. Getting arrested and getting in a scuffle with police is not pleasant, anytime where you are putting your hands on someone else - there is the potential for an injury - but it did not seem to me from the videos I saw that they were intentionally rough or agressive with him once they had him on the ground. They didn't have their night sticks out, they weren't hitting him, or stomping or kicking him. If he was injured in the take down, that is regrettable, but that is the risk of running from the police.

The problem is, lets say Freddie was a really bad guy, the cops saw him, he ran and they let him run.. then come to find out - he had multiple warrants, etc. for him? Then- you know what - the public would be screaming - why didn't you chase him down and tackle him? We have a 50% unsolved murder rate in this city. You had the chance to catch that guy - but you did not bring him in. So, the average beat cop treats EVERYONE like a criminal suspect - to avoid letting the really bad ones slip through their hands. I am fine - if you want to tone that down.But, then the people have to be willing to accept - like we have seen in NY after the Stop and Frisk has ended - that crime will go back up.

Whether we agree with it or not, aggressive policing, is effective. And, as cities have spent the last 30 years - trying to improve their image, they have resorted to some pretty aggressive and possibly unconstitutional means to do that. As a pretty staunch civic libertarian, I am all for toning that stuff down.. but then I don't live where my cars are broken into where my kids are harassed on their way home, etc.

The trade off though - of wanting to rid your neighborhood of the thug element - is to accept that without the police cracking a few skulls on occasion... they won't be able to rid your neighborhood of the thug element. Your choice on which oppression you want to live under - or if you just want to move away from all of it.

connie

 

[Charcat]

it seems the agitators were from the nation of islam and 2 other gangs,,bloods and crips...

i suspect the members are known by police and nsa..

wait till they go home and deal with them in their homes...

Did you see the clip where the mayor thanked the nation of islam?

 

[connieb]

Except Sharpton....he's up to his usually sh*t. I haven't seen where he's condemned what's going on....have you?

Rev. Al Sharpton is headed to Baltimore this week to meet with community leaders and plan a march from that city to Washington, D.C. to ramp up pressure on federal officials to take action on racial bias in policing.
Sharpton announced his plans Monday as Baltimore erupted into chaos on the same day as the funeral for Freddie Gray, the young black man from Baltimore who died in police custody. As businesses were looted and police cars destroyed and set on fire, community leaders were quick to condemn the rioting as unproductive to their cause.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/politics/al-sharpton-baltimore-march-freddie-gray/index.html

Baltimore to DC is a long freaking walk. Al may have to take one of his old track suits out of this closet for that one.

I hope they give us plenty of notice so those of us that live in the area, can avoid the Baltimore DC metro corrider. What a nightmare that will be.

connie

 

[oicu812]

Did you see the clip where the mayor thanked the nation of islam?

i did...

birds of a feather...

 

[PhilFish]

I think the reality is we need to decide what we mean by policing.

As far as I am concerned - your beat cop position - is not about "keeping the peace" as much as it is about harassing and intimidating the people who OTHER people are calling you on. You have kids hanging around a parking lot - the store calls the cops - the Cops JOBS are to harass and run off those kids. Maybe give them a little scare - so they don't come back, etc. The problem is - we ask the cops to do those things.. then we bitch when we don't like how they accomplish that goal.

Similiar with stop and frisk. Which for the record I do think is probably unconstitutional. BUT - it was effective.

The trade off is - if you are not going to use police in the capacity they were used in the Freddie Gray case, in the Michael Brown case - where they are there to run off, intimidate and in general clear the streets of the riff raff, then don't use them to do that. BUT then also be willing to accept that there will be higher crime.

There was no excuse if they put him in that paddy wagon, then intentionally drove like nutcases to give him a rough ride. If that was the case, the officer should face charges.

But, there is precident that if you are in a high crime area, and a suspect runs for no reason - you can chase them and detain them. He was arrested because the police say he had a switchblade. But, they were within their rights, so it would seem to at least chase him down and tackle him if need be. And, on occasion, that may result in an injury, even a totally unexpected one. There was no evidence though that after they had him on the ground they were intentionally rough with him. That they had beat him. Watching them put him in the van they weren't nastily pushing and shoving him, etc. Getting arrested and getting in a scuffle with police is not pleasant, anytime where you are putting your hands on someone else - there is the potential for an injury - but it did not seem to me from the videos I saw that they were intentionally rough or agressive with him once they had him on the ground. They didn't have their night sticks out, they weren't hitting him, or stomping or kicking him. If he was injured in the take down, that is regrettable, but that is the risk of running from the police.

The problem is, lets say Freddie was a really bad guy, the cops saw him, he ran and they let him run.. then come to find out - he had multiple warrants, etc. for him? Then- you know what - the public would be screaming - why didn't you chase him down and tackle him? We have a 50% unsolved murder rate in this city. You had the chance to catch that guy - but you did not bring him in. So, the average beat cop treats EVERYONE like a criminal suspect - to avoid letting the really bad ones slip through their hands. I am fine - if you want to tone that down.But, then the people have to be willing to accept - like we have seen in NY after the Stop and Frisk has ended - that crime will go back up.

Whether we agree with it or not, aggressive policing, is effective. And, as cities have spent the last 30 years - trying to improve their image, they have resorted to some pretty aggressive and possibly unconstitutional means to do that. As a pretty staunch civic libertarian, I am all for toning that stuff down.. but then I don't live where my cars are broken into where my kids are harassed on their way home, etc.

The trade off though - of wanting to rid your neighborhood of the thug element - is to accept that without the police cracking a few skulls on occasion... they won't be able to rid your neighborhood of the thug element. Your choice on which oppression you want to live under - or if you just want to move away from all of it.

connie

I think there is room for improvement. Which is not to say the policing system is rife with abuse and harassment...i think these instances few and far between in the context of the whole.

It's the perception played about that the entirety of a police force, or all police are racist thugs bent on injuring and abusing.

I actually think it is more along the lines of...yes there are these instances...yes they need to be addressed and the racially motivated removed and prosecuted. I also think that criminal elements...such as those causing the violence in Baltimore...cannot be allow to act as they please.

They should be disabused of their notion ..by the strictest measure of law.