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It isn't Nibiru ... or is it?

Days

Commentator
When writings are as old as the Sumerian tablets, anything is possible. So why can't these planets be what they were describing?


A second Sedna! What does it mean?
Posted by Emily Lakdawalla
2014/03/26 21:28 UTC (LINK)

It seems there is a variety of ideas how the planets found their current orbits but everyone seems to agree that they once were closer in. Now that is spooky. Because it tells us that whatever it was that the Sumerian tablets were talking about, it likely did, or certainly could have existed. BTW, these orbits are the type of orbits that Nibiru is supposed to possess.
 
The Sumerians were writing some six thousand years ago.

When astronomers say they mostly agree that the planets were once closer in, they mean BILLIONS of years ago.

There's about six orders of magnitude difference there......
 

Days

Commentator
The Sumerians were writing some six thousand years ago.

When astronomers say they mostly agree that the planets were once closer in, they mean BILLIONS of years ago.

There's about six orders of magnitude difference there......
The Sumerians wrote 6000 years ago about something the cosmologists are telling us today; that the planets were once in closer. The Sumerians didn't say they were closer at the time of their writing, at the time of their writing, the Sumerians told us there were planets with elliptical orbits the same as in the top post diagram.
 
The Sumerians wrote 6000 years ago about something the cosmologists are telling us today; that the planets were once in closer. The Sumerians didn't say they were closer at the time of their writing, at the time of their writing, the Sumerians told us there were planets with elliptical orbits the same as in the top post diagram.
The Sumerians certainly did not know anything about elliptical orbits. We have NO evidence that ANYONE knew the planets travel in elliptical orbits until Johannes Kepler came along:

Did the ancient Sumerians know about our "solar system?"

DICK: Ed, the ancient Sumerians knew about our "solar system" long ago.
Look at the image of the "sun" being circled by ten planets in the upper left of this ancient Sumerian cylinder seal:


The Sumerians were clearly intelligent people with a value system, a set of laws, diversification of labor, a monetary system, marriage and divorce, and many of the attributes of a sophisticated culture. I think it likely that, as this image shows, they perceived the earth to be one of many spherical globes circling the sun, since everything in the sky was round, and the moon can be seen to be a spherical object.


ED: You are speaking of an image on an ancient Sumerian cylinder seal that the "alternative archeologist," Zechariah Sitchin (in his books The 12th Planet, and, Genesis Revealed) claims represents "our solar system." However, the "likelihood" that the Sumerians knew the earth was one of many planets circling the sun remains questionable, because much is known about ancient Sumerian cosmology from pictures they drew and words they wrote, and they depicted the earth in both cases as flat:



Source: http://www.bunkahle.com/
From verses scattered throughout hymns and myths, one can compile a picture of the universe's (anki) creation according to the Sumerians. The primeval sea (abzu) existed before anything else and within that, the heaven (an) and the earth (ki) were formed. The boundary between heaven and earth was a solid (perhaps tin) vault, and the earth was a flat disk. Within the vault lay the gas-like 'lil', or atmosphere, the brighter portions therein formed the stars, planets, sun, and moon. (Kramer, The Sumerians 1963: pp. 112-113) Each of the four major Sumerian deities is associated with one of these regions. An, god of heaven, may have been the main god of the pantheon prior to 2500 BC., although his importance gradually waned. (Kramer 1963 p. 118) Ki is likely to be the original name of the earth goddess, whose name more often appears as Ninhursag (queen of the mountains), Ninmah (the exalted lady), or Nintu (the lady who gave birth). It seems likely that these two were the progenitors of most of the gods.

Typical of ancient flat earth cosmologies, the Sumerians depicted the sun moving across the sky each day:
 

Days

Commentator
As in every large civilization, there was a host of different people with different views. I wouldn't be to quick to discount Sichen's work, he seems to have done the most of it, and there's nothing nefarious about his work, it is an honest effort. I was the first person to agree with calls for more research by other competent translators, not just because so much remains untranslated, but to double check Sichen's work. but people who dismiss his work because they don't like what it says... that's not science.
 
As in every large civilization, there was a host of different people with different views. I wouldn't be to quick to discount Sichen's work, he seems to have done the most of it, and there's nothing nefarious about his work, it is an honest effort. I was the first person to agree with calls for more research by other competent translators, not just because so much remains untranslated, but to double check Sichen's work. but people who dismiss his work because they don't like what it says... that's not science.
Days, the whole idea of Nibiru is pseudo-science to begin with:

The Nibiru cataclysm is a supposed disastrous encounter between the Earth and a large planetary object (either a collision or a near-miss) which certain groups believe will take place in the early 21st century. Believers in this doomsday event usually refer to this object as Planet X or Nibiru. The idea that a planet-sized object will collide with or closely pass by Earth in the near future is not supported by any scientific evidence and has been rejected as pseudoscience and an internet hoax by astronomers and planetary scientists.[2][3]

The idea was first put forward in 1995 by Nancy Lieder,[4][5] founder of the website ZetaTalk. Lieder describes herself as a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extraterrestrials from the Zeta Reticuli star system through an implant in her brain. She states that she was chosen to warn mankind that the object would sweep through the inner Solar System in May 2003 (though that date was later postponed) causing Earth to undergo a physical pole shift that would destroy most of humanity.[6] The prediction has subsequently spread beyond Lieder's website and has been embraced by numerous Internet doomsday groups, most of which linked the event to the 2012 phenomenon. The name "Nibiru" is derived from the works of the ancient astronaut writer Zecharia Sitchin and his interpretations of Babylonian and Sumerian mythology; he denied any connection between his work and various claims of a coming apocalypse.

Origins
Nancy Lieder
The idea of the Nibiru encounter originated with Nancy Lieder, a Wisconsin woman who claims that as a girl she was contacted by gray extraterrestrials called Zetas, who implanted a communications device in her brain. In 1995, she founded the website ZetaTalk to disseminate her ideas.[7] Lieder first came to public attention on Internet newsgroups during the build-up to Comet Hale–Bopp's 1997 perihelion. She stated, claiming to speak as the Zetas,[8] that "The Hale-Bopp comet does not exist. It is a fraud, perpetrated by those who would have the teeming masses quiescent until it is too late. Hale-Bopp is nothing more than a distant star, and will draw no closer."[9]She claimed that the Hale-Bopp story was manufactured to distract people from the imminent arrival of a large planetary object, "Planet X", which would soon pass by Earth and destroy civilization.[9] After Hale-Bopp's perihelion revealed it as one of the brightest and longest-observed comets of the last century,[10] Lieder removed the first two sentences of her initial statement from her site, though they can still be found in Google's archives.[9] Her claims eventually made the New York Times.[11]

Lieder described Planet X as roughly four times the size of the Earth, and said that its closest approach would occur on May 27, 2003, resulting in the Earth's rotation ceasing for exactly 5.9 terrestrial days. This would be followed by the Earth's pole destabilising in a pole shift (a physical pole shift, with the Earth's pole physically moving, rather than a geomagnetic reversal) caused by magnetic attraction between the Earth's core and the magnetism of the passing planet. This in turn would disrupt the Earth's magnetic core and lead to subsequent displacement of the Earth's crust.[12]

After Lieder, the first person to propagate her Planet X idea was Mark Hazlewood, a former member of the ZetaTalk community, who in 2001 published a book titled Blindsided: Planet X Passes in 2003. Lieder would later accuse him of being a confidence trickster.[13] A Japanese cult called the Pana Wave Laboratory, which blocked off roads and rivers with white cloths to protect itself from electromagnetic attacks, also warned that the world would end in May 2003 after the approach of a tenth planet.[14]

Roughly a week before the supposed arrival of Planet X in May 2003, Lieder appeared on KROQ-FM radio in Los Angeles, and advised listeners to euthanize their pets in anticipation of the event as she had done.[15] This led the Fortean Times to conclude that she had put down her dog(s) to save them from further suffering during the Pole Shift.[16] Later, in a 2004 interview she said that she had euthanized her dog because it was acting aggressively.[17] After the 2003 date passed without incident, Lieder said that it was merely a "white lie ... to fool the establishment."[18] She refused to disclose the true date, saying that to do so would give those in power enough time to declare martial law and trap people in cities during the shift, leading to their deaths.[19] Though Lieder herself has not specified a new date for the object's return, many groups have taken up her idea and cited their own dates. One frequently cited date was December 21, 2012. This date had many apocalyptic associations, as it was the end of a cycle (baktun) in the long count in the Mayan calendar. Several writers published books connecting the encounter with 2012.[20] Despite that date having passed, many websites still contend that Nibiru/Planet X is en route to Earth.[21]
 
And more on the pseudo-scientific nature of the belief in Nibiru:

Scientific rejection[edit]
Astronomers reject the idea of Nibiru, and have made efforts to inform the public that there is no threat to Earth.[30] They point out that such an object so close to Earth would be easily visible to the naked eye. A planet such as Nibiru would create noticeable effects in the orbits of the outer planets.[31] Some counter this by claiming that the object has been concealed behind the Sun for several years, though this would be geometrically impossible.[20] Most photographs showing "Nibiru" by the Sun are in fact of lens flares, false images of the Sun created by reflections within the lens.[32]

Astronomer Mike Brown notes that if this object's orbit were as described, it would only have lasted in the Solar System for a million years or so before Jupiter expelled it, and that there is no way another object's magnetic field could have such an effect on Earth.[33] Lieder's assertions that the approach of Nibiru would cause the Earth's rotation to stop or its axis to shift violate the laws of physics. In his rebuttal of Immanuel Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision, which made the same claim that the Earth's rotation could be stopped and then restarted, Carl Sagan noted that, "the energy required to brake the Earth is not enough to melt it, although it would result in a noticeable increase in temperature: The oceans would [be] raised to the boiling point of water ... [Also,] how does the Earth get started up again, rotating at approximately the same rate of spin? The Earth cannot do it by itself, because of the law of the conservation of angular momentum."[34]

In a 2009 interview with the Discovery Channel, Mike Brown noted that, while it is not impossible that the Sun has a distant planetary companion, such an object would have to be lying very far from the observed regions of the Solar System to have no detectable gravitational effect on the other planets. A Mars-sized object could lie undetected at 300 AU (10 times the distance of Neptune); a Jupiter-sized object at 30,000 AU. To travel 1000 AU in two years, an object would need to be moving at 2400 km/s – faster than the galactic escape velocity. At that speed, any object would be shot out of the Solar System, and then out of the Milky Way galaxy into intergalactic space.[35]

Conspiracy theories[edit]
Many believers in the imminent approach of Planet X/Nibiru accuse NASA of deliberately covering up visual evidence of its existence.[36] One such accusation involves the IRAS infrared space observatory, launched in 1983. The satellite briefly made headlines due to an "unknown object" that was at first described as "possibly as large as the giant planet Jupiter and possibly so close to Earth that it would be part of this Solar System".[37] This newspaper article has been cited by proponents of the Nibiru cataclysm, beginning with Lieder herself, as evidence for the existence of Nibiru.[38] However, further analysis revealed that of several initially unidentified objects, nine were distant galaxies and the tenth was "galactic cirrus"; none were found to be Solar System bodies.[39]


NASA images showing the expansion of a light echo around V838 Mon, between 2002 and 2004
Another accusation frequently made by websites predicting the collision is that the U.S. government built the South Pole Telescope (SPT) to track Nibiru's trajectory, and that the object has been imaged optically.[40] However, the SPT (which is not funded by NASA) is a radio telescope, and cannot take optical images. Its South Pole location was chosen due to the low-humidity environment, and there is no way an approaching object could be seenonly from the South Pole.[41] The "picture" of Nibiru posted on YouTube was revealed, in fact, to be a Hubble image of the expanding light echo around the star V838 Mon.[40]

Another conspiracy claim regards a patch of missing data in Google Sky near the constellation of Orion, which has often been cited as evidence that Nibiru has been redacted. However, the same region of sky can still be viewed by thousands of amateur astronomers. A scientist at Google said that the missing data is due to a glitch in the stitching software used to piece the images together.[42]

Another piece of claimed evidence drawn from Google Sky is the carbon star CW Leonis, which is the brightest object in the 10 μm infrared sky and is frequently claimed to be Nibiru.[43]
 

Days

Commentator
Days, the whole idea of Nibiru is pseudo-science to begin with:

The Nibiru cataclysm is a supposed disastrous encounter between the Earth and a large planetary object (either a collision or a near-miss) which certain groups believe will take place in the early 21st century. Believers in this doomsday event usually refer to this object as Planet X or Nibiru. The idea that a planet-sized object will collide with or closely pass by Earth in the near future is not supported by any scientific evidence and has been rejected as pseudoscience and an internet hoax by astronomers and planetary scientists.[2][3]
And more on the pseudo-scientific nature of the belief in Nibiru:

Scientific rejection[edit]
Astronomers reject the idea of Nibiru, and have made efforts to inform the public that there is no threat to Earth.[30] They point out that such an object so close to Earth would be easily visible to the naked eye. A planet such as Nibiru would create noticeable effects in the orbits of the outer planets.[31] Some counter this by claiming that the object has been concealed behind the Sun for several years, though this would be geometrically impossible.[20] Most photographs showing "Nibiru" by the Sun are in fact of lens flares, false images of the Sun created by reflections within the lens.[32]
I didn't reference the nut cases, Leroy. I am not worried about Nibiru coming to destroy us, what I said was that Sumerian writings might have been a reference to these planets. And these planets are not coming any where near us, you can see that in this tiny diagram, they circle the entire solar system.
 
I didn't reference the nut cases, Leroy. I am not worried about Nibiru coming to destroy us, what I said was that Sumerian writings might have been a reference to these planets. And these planets are not coming any where near us, you can see that in this tiny diagram, they circle the entire solar system.
Good. But we have ZERO evidence that ANY of the ancient civilizations were aware of ANY of the planets beyond Saturn. They did not know about Uranus, or about Neptune, or about Pluto. Uranus was not discovered until William Herschel saw it in his telescope in 1787; Neptune was not discovered until 1846----and it was a major triumph of Newtonian physics when it was discovered, because its location was predicted, mathematically----and Pluto was not discovered until 1930, by the American Clyde Tombaugh. Uranus is BARELY visible to the naked eye. To see Neptune you need at LEAST a good pair of binoculars. To see Pluto, you need a large telescope. The ancients had neither binoculars nor telescopes.

Like Pluto, Sedna and Eris are DWARF planets, by the way.
 
As in every large civilization, there was a host of different people with different views. I wouldn't be to quick to discount Sichen's work, he seems to have done the most of it, and there's nothing nefarious about his work, it is an honest effort. I was the first person to agree with calls for more research by other competent translators, not just because so much remains untranslated, but to double check Sichen's work. but people who dismiss his work because they don't like what it says... that's not science.
By the way, Sitchin certainly thought that Nibiru would on occasion come into the inner solar system, so he certainly did not think it was confined to the outer solar system:

Zecharia Sitchin and Sumer[edit]

Zecharia Sitchin
Although Lieder originally referred to the object as "Planet X", it has become deeply associated with Nibiru, a planet from the works of ancient astronaut proponent Zecharia Sitchin, particularly his book The 12th Planet. According to Sitchin's interpretation of Babylonian religious texts, which contradicts conclusions reached by credited scholars on the subject,[24][25] a giant planet (called Nibiru or Marduk) passes by Earth every 3,600 years and allows its sentientinhabitants to interact with humanity. These beings, which Sitchin identified with the Annunaki of Sumerian myth, would become humanity's first gods.[26] Lieder first made the connection between Nibiru and her Planet X on her site in 1996 ("Planet X does exist, and it is the 12th Planet, one and the same.").[27]

However, Sitchin, who died in 2010, denied any connection between his work and Lieder's claims. In 2007, partly in response to Lieder's proclamations, Sitchin published a book, The End of Days, which set the time for the last passing of Nibiru by Earth at 556 BC, which would mean, given the object's supposed 3,600-year orbit, that it would return sometime around AD 2900.[28] He did however say that he believed that the Annunaki might return earlier by spaceship, and that the timing of their return would coincide with the shift from the astrological Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius, sometime between 2090 and 2370.[29]
 
One more point (hopefully!): We now know that there are no LARGE planetary bodies in the outer solar system:

Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE) is a NASA infrared-wavelength astronomical space telescope launched in December 2009,[3][4][5] and placed in hibernation in February 2011 when its transmitter turned off.[6] It was re-activated in 2013.[7] Its observations supported the discovery of the first Y Dwarf and Earth trojan asteroid, tens of thousands of new asteroids, and numerous previously undiscovered star clusters.[6][8][9][10][11][12]

WISE performed an all-sky astronomical survey with images in 3.4, 4.6, 12 and 22 μm wavelength range bands, over ten months using a 40 cm (16 in) diameter infrared telescope in Earth orbit.[13] After its hydrogen coolant depleted, a four-month mission extension called NEOWISE was conducted to search for near-Earth objects such as comets and asteroids using its remaining capability.[14]

The All-Sky data including processed images, source catalogs and raw data, was released to the public on March 14, 2012, and is available at the Infrared Science Archive.[15][16][17][18] In August 2013, NASA announced it would reactivate the WISE telescope for a new three-year mission to search for asteroids that could collide with Earth.[7] Science operations and data processing for WISE and NEOWISE take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena.

Mission goals[edit]
The mission was planned to create infrared images of 99 percent of the sky, with at least eight images made of each position on the sky in order to increase accuracy. The spacecraft was placed in a 525 km (326 mi), circular, polar, Sun-synchronous orbit for its ten-month mission, during which it has taken 1.5 million images, one every 11 seconds.[19] The satellite orbited above the terminator, its telescope pointing always to the opposite direction to the Earth, except for pointing towards the Moon, which was avoided, and its solar cells towards the Sun. Each image covers a 47-arcminute field of view, which means a 6-arcsecond resolution. Each area of the sky was scanned at least 10 times at the equator; the poles were scanned at theoretically every revolution due to the overlapping of the images.[20] The produced image library contains data on the local Solar System, the Milky Way, and the more distant universe.

Targets within the Solar System[edit]
WISE was not able to detect Kuiper belt objects, because their temperatures are too low.[23] It was able to detect any objects warmer than 70–100 K. A Neptune-sized object would be detectable out to 700 AU, aJupiter-mass object out to 1 light year (63,000 AU), where it would still be within the Sun's zone of gravitational control. A larger object of 2–3 Jupiter masses would be visible at a distance of up to 7–10 light years.[23]

LeRoy: Sorry, Days, but there is no 'Nibiru' out there.....
 

Days

Commentator
By the way, Sitchin certainly thought that Nibiru would on occasion come into the inner solar system, so he certainly did not think it was confined to the outer solar system:

Zecharia Sitchin and Sumer[edit]

Zecharia Sitchin
Although Lieder originally referred to the object as "Planet X", it has become deeply associated with Nibiru, a planet from the works of ancient astronaut proponent Zecharia Sitchin, particularly his book The 12th Planet. According to Sitchin's interpretation of Babylonian religious texts, which contradicts conclusions reached by credited scholars on the subject,[24][25] a giant planet (called Nibiru or Marduk) passes by Earth every 3,600 years and allows its sentientinhabitants to interact with humanity. These beings, which Sitchin identified with the Annunaki of Sumerian myth, would become humanity's first gods.[26] Lieder first made the connection between Nibiru and her Planet X on her site in 1996 ("Planet X does exist, and it is the 12th Planet, one and the same.").[27]

However, Sitchin, who died in 2010, denied any connection between his work and Lieder's claims. In 2007, partly in response to Lieder's proclamations, Sitchin published a book, The End of Days, which set the time for the last passing of Nibiru by Earth at 556 BC, which would mean, given the object's supposed 3,600-year orbit, that it would return sometime around AD 2900.[28] He did however say that he believed that the Annunaki might return earlier by spaceship, and that the timing of their return would coincide with the shift from the astrological Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius, sometime between 2090 and 2370.[29]
IOW, that's what the cuneiform read. They don't have that language fully figured out, these are opinions based upon the best we can do with it at this time, we need more translation work,,, a lot more translation work.

Sumerian Cuneiform is like the Mayan was before that kid broke the secret to the written language that it was a phonetic hieroglyph. We are still waiting for a break through like that for the ancient Sumerian. Modern Mayan speech was the key to Mayan breakthrough, and it was not so removed into the distant past... Sumerian is a lot tougher.
 

Days

Commentator
One more point (hopefully!): We now know that there are no LARGE planetary bodies in the outer solar system:

Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE) is a NASA infrared-wavelength astronomical space telescope launched in December 2009,[3][4][5] and placed in hibernation in February 2011 when its transmitter turned off.[6] It was re-activated in 2013.[7] Its observations supported the discovery of the first Y Dwarf and Earth trojan asteroid, tens of thousands of new asteroids, and numerous previously undiscovered star clusters.[6][8][9][10][11][12]

WISE performed an all-sky astronomical survey with images in 3.4, 4.6, 12 and 22 μm wavelength range bands, over ten months using a 40 cm (16 in) diameter infrared telescope in Earth orbit.[13] After its hydrogen coolant depleted, a four-month mission extension called NEOWISE was conducted to search for near-Earth objects such as comets and asteroids using its remaining capability.[14]

The All-Sky data including processed images, source catalogs and raw data, was released to the public on March 14, 2012, and is available at the Infrared Science Archive.[15][16][17][18] In August 2013, NASA announced it would reactivate the WISE telescope for a new three-year mission to search for asteroids that could collide with Earth.[7] Science operations and data processing for WISE and NEOWISE take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena.

Mission goals[edit]
The mission was planned to create infrared images of 99 percent of the sky, with at least eight images made of each position on the sky in order to increase accuracy. The spacecraft was placed in a 525 km (326 mi), circular, polar, Sun-synchronous orbit for its ten-month mission, during which it has taken 1.5 million images, one every 11 seconds.[19] The satellite orbited above the terminator, its telescope pointing always to the opposite direction to the Earth, except for pointing towards the Moon, which was avoided, and its solar cells towards the Sun. Each image covers a 47-arcminute field of view, which means a 6-arcsecond resolution. Each area of the sky was scanned at least 10 times at the equator; the poles were scanned at theoretically every revolution due to the overlapping of the images.[20] The produced image library contains data on the local Solar System, the Milky Way, and the more distant universe.

Targets within the Solar System[edit]
WISE was not able to detect Kuiper belt objects, because their temperatures are too low.[23] It was able to detect any objects warmer than 70–100 K. A Neptune-sized object would be detectable out to 700 AU, aJupiter-mass object out to 1 light year (63,000 AU), where it would still be within the Sun's zone of gravitational control. A larger object of 2–3 Jupiter masses would be visible at a distance of up to 7–10 light years.[23]

LeRoy: Sorry, Days, but there is no 'Nibiru' out there.....
again, I said that Nibiru could have been one of these planets... but along this line, this was a great tool, but it is too early to call it conclusive; that's a huge sweep of space they are trying to perform.
 

Days

Commentator
Good. But we have ZERO evidence that ANY of the ancient civilizations were aware of ANY of the planets beyond Saturn. They did not know about Uranus, or about Neptune, or about Pluto. Uranus was not discovered until William Herschel saw it in his telescope in 1787; Neptune was not discovered until 1846----and it was a major triumph of Newtonian physics when it was discovered, because its location was predicted, mathematically----and Pluto was not discovered until 1930, by the American Clyde Tombaugh. Uranus is BARELY visible to the naked eye. To see Neptune you need at LEAST a good pair of binoculars. To see Pluto, you need a large telescope. The ancients had neither binoculars nor telescopes.

Like Pluto, Sedna and Eris are DWARF planets, by the way.
Your head is so oriented to modern times. Ancients had telescopes. If you go back to pre-flood days, ancients had high technology. There's no reason to expect that the knowledge of the stars would not have survived the destruction of the technology. So, if they knew where to look and knew how to build a telescope by hand, I strongly suspect those outer planets were well known to those times. (6000-9000 years ago)
 
Your head is so oriented to modern times. Ancients had telescopes. If you go back to pre-flood days, ancients had high technology. There's no reason to expect that the knowledge of the stars would not have survived the destruction of the technology. So, if they knew where to look and knew how to build a telescope by hand, I strongly suspect those outer planets were well known to those times. (6000-9000 years ago)
You're devoted to fringe archaeology, Days. That's too bad, because it is almost entirely junk science. There is NO evidence that anyone had telescopes before they were invented in the Dutch Republic in the early 17th century, which is where Galileo got the idea from. He was actually the first to point a telescope at the heavens, and amazing discoveries started being made right away.

Six thousand to nine thousand years ago, in the Middle East, the Agricultural Revolution was well underway. But most people were still living in little farming villages, with a few scattered towns here and there. Finally, by around six thousand years ago, in southern Mesopotamia, you start to see cities, the so-called Urban Revolution. It was the Sumerians who built the first true cities, anywhere in the world.
 
again, I said that Nibiru could have been one of these planets... but along this line, this was a great tool, but it is too early to call it conclusive; that's a huge sweep of space they are trying to perform.
WISE performed an all-sky astronomical survey.

I hope you understand what the phrase 'all-sky' means. WISE looked in EVERY direction. I was disappointed in the results myself, Days. I was sincerely hoping we would detect an Earth-sized planet out there in the Kuiper Belt, or a Jupiter-sized object in the Oort Cloud. Because either or both would have presented marvelous opportunities for some future NASA mission. Alas, they are just not there. The WISE results were pretty definitive on that. Check that: they were VERY definitive.
 

Days

Commentator
WISE performed an all-sky astronomical survey.

I hope you understand what the phrase 'all-sky' means. WISE looked in EVERY direction. I was disappointed in the results myself, Days. I was sincerely hoping we would detect an Earth-sized planet out there in the Kuiper Belt, or a Jupiter-sized object in the Oort Cloud. Because either or both would have presented marvelous opportunities for some future NASA mission. Alas, they are just not there. The WISE results were pretty definitive on that. Check that: they were VERY definitive.
I know it was a wide array type scan device. I forget what phase they scanned with, but I think x-rays. It's quite a tool, I remember reading about it. But planets are real tough to dig out, Mark. They might have missed one or two or three or a hundred, depending how far out they were searching. Whenever your first scan reads zero, there's a strong likelihood that your technology isn't quite up to the task. Remember, this is the first time we tried to dig planets out of deep space solo, without the aid of a star. We've found those, but we never pretended to be any where near close to covering the entire sky. Depth matters.
 

Days

Commentator
You're devoted to fringe archaeology, Days. That's too bad, because it is almost entirely junk science. There is NO evidence that anyone had telescopes before they were invented in the Dutch Republic in the early 17th century, which is where Galileo got the idea from. He was actually the first to point a telescope at the heavens, and amazing discoveries started being made right away.

Six thousand to nine thousand years ago, in the Middle East, the Agricultural Revolution was well underway. But most people were still living in little farming villages, with a few scattered towns here and there. Finally, by around six thousand years ago, in southern Mesopotamia, you start to see cities, the so-called Urban Revolution. It was the Sumerians who built the first true cities, anywhere in the world.
It's not fringe archaeology, it is archaeology, geology, the same sciences - just looking further back in time. When the latest technology we possess, still can not perform the work that is out there, then technology comes into play also. But when geology tells you something is 12,000 years old, minimum, then you have to stop dating it at 4500 years. That's not fringe geology, it is mainstream. What happened was geologists dated stone work the world over to be much older than archaeologists were claiming, the archaeologists tried to claim the geologists were wrong; sorry, the geologists are the higher authority. Some archaeologists are starting to come around, those are the guys you label "fringe" - they are anything but. Your science has to agree with all sciences if you have it correct. When archaeologists return to the scientific method, we get archaeology that correctly interprets their discoveries.

You are siding with the Catholic priests, I'm going with Galileo.
 
When writings are as old as the Sumerian tablets, anything is possible. So why can't these planets be what they were describing?


A second Sedna! What does it mean?
Posted by Emily Lakdawalla
2014/03/26 21:28 UTC (LINK)

It seems there is a variety of ideas how the planets found their current orbits but everyone seems to agree that they once were closer in. Now that is spooky. Because it tells us that whatever it was that the Sumerian tablets were talking about, it likely did, or certainly could have existed. BTW, these orbits are the type of orbits that Nibiru is supposed to possess.
[/QUOTE
The Sumerians were writing some six thousand years ago.

When astronomers say they mostly agree that the planets were once closer in, they mean BILLIONS of years ago.

There's about six orders of magnitude difference there......
NASA is a con ---- If that is accepted we have a conversation. If not, not.
 

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NASA is a con ---- If that is accepted we have a conversation. If not, not.
This wouldn't really be NASA's area, this is astronomy, I know there's overlap, but the WISE telescope is likely run by non NASA scientists. But since you mention it, it appears the Mars rovers might also be hoaxes, once again we are getting pictures of test sites on earth instead of the real deal.
 
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