JFK Assassination 50th Anniversary: What do you think happened?

[Sunset Rose]

Well the guy did have in his possession a copy of Oswald's fake Military ID. That could have just been one of those things he picked up except for one thing. The card that Oswald had was stamped. The copy that Nagell had was a photocopy of that ID WITHOUT THE STAMP on it. Pretty weird.

Here's what the Zapruder film looks:

Here's a video of a lecture done by an author who wrote a book about the guy -

Well the guy did have in his possession a copy of Oswald's fake Military ID. That could have just been one of those things he picked up except for one thing. The card that Oswald had was stamped. The copy that Nagell had was a photocopy of that ID WITHOUT THE STAMP on it. Pretty weird.

Here's what the Zapruder film looks:

Here's a video of a lecture done by an author who wrote a book about the guy -

Thank you for sharing the lecture by Mr Russell. He talks about some things I'd never heard of.
The Zapruder film has been doctored, I believe. Witnesses who saw the actual impact of the bullet hitting JFK in the head, describe his wound differently than what this film shows.

 

[PNWest]

Thank you for sharing the lecture by Mr Russell. He talks about some things I'd never heard of.
The Zapruder film has been doctored, I believe. Witnesses who saw the actual impact of the bullet hitting JFK in the head, describe his wound differently than what this film shows.

If you look at John Connally in the film it is hard to imaging that he could possibly have been hit with the same bullet that caused JFK to rais his arms to his neck. Connally doesn't seem hit until a couple of seconds later. That in itself is proof of a second shooter.

 

[Sunset Rose]

If you look at John Connally in the film it is hard to imaging that he could possibly have been hit with the same bullet that caused JFK to rais his arms to his neck. Connally doesn't seem hit until a couple of seconds later. That in itself is proof of a second shooter.

I agree 100%. When you have time Google: Doug Horne/Zapruder film. This man made a video that provides proof of how the Zapruder film was doctored. The version of the film that we see now is NOT the original film that Mr. Zapruder took that day.
Also, shows proof that President Kennedy and Gov Connally were hit by separate bullets, just like you said.

 

[Wahbooz]

I'll take your word for it.

Still zero evidence of anyone transferring a fingerprint or palm print to the murder weapon though.

Hahahahahahaha.....

SOB, man. If you're going to frame someone, you sure as hell do not leave evidence that you did lying around.

Wow, I give up.

 

[condorkristy]

Hahahahahahaha.....

SOB, man. If you're going to frame someone, you sure as hell do not leave evidence that you did lying around.

Wow, I give up.

Wow...you should give up.

I could just as easily have made the statement that...I don't know...Tiger Woods Dad was the gunman.... Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. were in on it too. I have just as much evidence to support those statements as you have to support your "the fingerprints were transferred" contention.

 

[Wahbooz]

Wow...you should give up.

I could just as easily have made the statement that...I don't know...Tiger Woods Dad was the gunman.... Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. were in on it too. I have just as much evidence to support those statements as you have to support your "the fingerprints were transferred" contention.

No, you're the one who should be giving up. Number one, I never said "the fingerprints were transfered", I said tthey could have been transferred. In your comment, you're specifically saying people 'were' in on it. Your changing my words does not win any discussion for you. You have no proof that could not have happened.

Now read my words again, "no proof that could not have happened".

 

[PNWest]

I have heard it said that in a conspiracy it's not really that the real question is not "Who pulled the trigger?" but "who paid for the bullets?".

In the JFK assassination - even if you believe that Oswald by his lonesome sat up in that 6th floor window with a rifle, watched and did nothing as JFK's limo nearly came to a stop turning left onto Houston street and headed right at him with no obstructions and a very, very easy shot, waited for the limo to make a hairpin turn onto Elm during which he could have almost dropped the rifle and killed JFK with it, waited for the limo to get about 50 feet down Elm until a tree obstructed his view, then fired once, missing, fired again hitting JFK in the back with the bullet going on to hit Gov Connely who didn't react for at least a second and then finally taking one last shot that entered the back of JFK's head at the hairline and exited at the top of his head; even if you believe that Oswald alone did all that, you might want to ask yourself literally "who paid for the bullets"?

Ammunition for a 6.5 Manllicher Carcano rifle was only available at 2 locations in Dallas IIRC and neither sold any ammo to Oswald. The bullets that were alleged to have killed JFK were made by Western-Winchester Cartridge Co. They made only 4 lots of 1 million bullets back in 1954 for the US government. they were meant to supply anti-communist insurgencies around the world and eventually cam back as surplus. The assassination bullets had to have come from one of these 4 lots. How did Oswald get the bullets. It is known that he didn't buy the bullets in Dallas. There is no record of him buying them mail order either. And trust me they looked. So who paid for the bullets?

And while we are at it. Isn't it funny that the money order that was used to purchase the rifle was never stamped as being paid? That's strange. Also strange is the fact that the serial number on that money order came from a stack of money orders where the other money orders in that stack were cashed in sometime in 1964, long AFTER the assassination.

Does this prove a conspiracy? No. But is sure is interesting.

------------------

By the way if you doubt what I said about sitting up on the sixth floor choosing when to shoot I suggest you download the simulation "JFK Reloaded" and give it a try. Try to duplicate Oswald's shooting that day. Then do as I say and try shooting as the limo turns onto Houston Street. Let me know how well each strategy works. Now of course if there were someone down on Elm Street up on the grass knoll then it wouldn't make sense to start shooting on Houston Street.

Coincidence? Who knows. They're all dead by now.

 

[condorkristy]

No, you're the one who should be giving up. Number one, I never said "the fingerprints were transfered", I said tthey could have been transferred. In your comment, you're specifically saying people 'were' in on it. Your changing my words does not win any discussion for you. You have no proof that could not have happened.

Now read my words again, "no proof that could not have happened".

Really dude?

Okay...Tiger Woods Dad, Frank and Sammy "could have" been in on it. My crazy assed theory has just as much documentation as your crazy assed theory?

Better?

 

[condorkristy]

I have heard it said that in a conspiracy it's not really that the real question is not "Who pulled the trigger?" but "who paid for the bullets?".

In the JFK assassination - even if you believe that Oswald by his lonesome sat up in that 6th floor window with a rifle, watched and did nothing as JFK's limo nearly came to a stop turning left onto Houston street and headed right at him with no obstructions and a very, very easy shot, waited for the limo to make a hairpin turn onto Elm during which he could have almost dropped the rifle and killed JFK with it, waited for the limo to get about 50 feet down Elm until a tree obstructed his view, then fired once, missing, fired again hitting JFK in the back with the bullet going on to hit Gov Connely who didn't react for at least a second and then finally taking one last shot that entered the back of JFK's head at the hairline and exited at the top of his head; even if you believe that Oswald alone did all that, you might want to ask yourself literally "who paid for the bullets"?

Ammunition for a 6.5 Manllicher Carcano rifle was only available at 2 locations in Dallas IIRC and neither sold any ammo to Oswald. The bullets that were alleged to have killed JFK were made by Western-Winchester Cartridge Co. They made only 4 lots of 1 million bullets back in 1954 for the US government. they were meant to supply anti-communist insurgencies around the world and eventually cam back as surplus. The assassination bullets had to have come from one of these 4 lots. How did Oswald get the bullets. It is known that he didn't buy the bullets in Dallas. There is no record of him buying them mail order either. And trust me they looked. So who paid for the bullets?

And while we are at it. Isn't it funny that the money order that was used to purchase the rifle was never stamped as being paid? That's strange. Also strange is the fact that the serial number on that money order came from a stack of money orders where the other money orders in that stack were cashed in sometime in 1964, long AFTER the assassination.

Does this prove a conspiracy? No. But is sure is interesting.

------------------

By the way if you doubt what I said about sitting up on the sixth floor choosing when to shoot I suggest you download the simulation "JFK Reloaded" and give it a try. Try to duplicate Oswald's shooting that day. Then do as I say and try shooting as the limo turns onto Houston Street. Let me know how well each strategy works. Now of course if there were someone down on Elm Street up on the grass knoll then it wouldn't make sense to start shooting on Houston Street.

Coincidence? Who knows. They're all dead by now.

Not sure about any of the bullet data. I've never heard any of it before. As well as the money order stuff. Never heard any of it.

The second shooter is problematic though....

If you had two shooters, you could and should have a lot more bullets flying around. They found 3 spent shell casings in the TSBD. So, with 2 shooters shooting similar weapons...that would be 6 shots maximum, four shots minimum. They found three bullets....I believe. Again, its been a while since I did a deep dive into this stuff. But there should be more bullets if you had more assassins.

 

[Wahbooz]

Really dude?

Okay...Tiger Woods Dad, Frank and Sammy "could have" been in on it. My crazy assed theory has just as much documentation as your crazy assed theory?

Better?

Yes... dude! Simply put, it could have happened. You blew off the study about DNA in fingerprints, which showed that you were wrong when you claimed there was no DNA in prints, as well as transference. And why? Because it didn't fit your dialogue.

 

[PNWest]

Not sure about any of the bullet data. I've never heard any of it before. As well as the money order stuff. Never heard any of it.

The second shooter is problematic though....

If you had two shooters, you could and should have a lot more bullets flying around. They found 3 spent shell casings in the TSBD. So, with 2 shooters shooting similar weapons...that would be 6 shots maximum, four shots minimum. They found three bullets....I believe. Again, its been a while since I did a deep dive into this stuff. But there should be more bullets if you had more assassins.

re: second shooter
Check out the acoustics research.....

As to lost bullets - they only found fragments from one bullet and the so-called magic bullet so at LEAST one bullet was never found. If they could have missed one out of 3 they could have missed others. No proof either way. Also x-rays of Connelly's thigh show remaining bullet fragments to where the weight of what was recovered and left in his thigh when added to the weight of the 'magic' was a bit too heavy for one bullet. Don't be fooled by the chunk missing from the photos of the 'magic bullet' - that came from metal removed after the assassination for testing. Why the extra lead?

If you read the papers on the acoustic fingerprinting that was done you'll see that the so called "debunking" of it done later is very, very slipshod It wasn't just single shot impulses - there were echo pulses that matched up to the 6th floor and the grassy knoll. 4 shots that line up pretty damn nicely to the zapruder film. The debunking claims that there was bleedthrough on the tape but doesn't explain how those echo fingerprints could match up the way they did. Read the analysis by Bolt, Beranek and Newman and by acoustics analysts Mark Weiss and Ernest Aschkenasy. It's pretty persuasive mostly because it's hard to see how those echo fingerprints could have shown up randomely and with timing that matches what is shown in the Z-film. You decide.

 

[PNWest]

Not sure about any of the bullet data. I've never heard any of it before. As well as the money order stuff. Never heard any of it.

The second shooter is problematic though....

If you had two shooters, you could and should have a lot more bullets flying around. They found 3 spent shell casings in the TSBD. So, with 2 shooters shooting similar weapons...that would be 6 shots maximum, four shots minimum. They found three bullets....I believe. Again, its been a while since I did a deep dive into this stuff. But there should be more bullets if you had more assassins.

I will tell you this. Castro did not kill JFK. The mafia did not kill JFK. Neither could have controlled the investigation.

 

[condorkristy]

Yes... dude! Simply put, it could have happened. You blew off the study about DNA in fingerprints, which showed that you were wrong when you claimed there was no DNA in prints, as well as transference. And why? Because it didn't fit your dialogue.

Yeah, you got me on that one DNA in skin oil. Wow. And it has nothing to do with Oswald or JFK.

 

[condorkristy]

re: second shooter
Check out the acoustics research.....

As to lost bullets - they only found fragments from one bullet and the so-called magic bullet so at LEAST one bullet was never found. If they could have missed one out of 3 they could have missed others. No proof either way. Also x-rays of Connelly's thigh show remaining bullet fragments to where the weight of what was recovered and left in his thigh when added to the weight of the 'magic' was a bit too heavy for one bullet. Don't be fooled by the chunk missing from the photos of the 'magic bullet' - that came from metal removed after the assassination for testing. Why the extra lead?

If you read the papers on the acoustic fingerprinting that was done you'll see that the so called "debunking" of it done later is very, very slipshod It wasn't just single shot impulses - there were echo pulses that matched up to the 6th floor and the grassy knoll. 4 shots that line up pretty damn nicely to the zapruder film. The debunking claims that there was bleedthrough on the tape but doesn't explain how those echo fingerprints could match up the way they did. Read the analysis by Bolt, Beranek and Newman and by acoustics analysts Mark Weiss and Ernest Aschkenasy. It's pretty persuasive mostly because it's hard to see how those echo fingerprints could have shown up randomely and with timing that matches what is shown in the Z-film. You decide.

Here is what the National Archives has:

First Bullet:


Second Bullet:


Magic Bullet


So unless a bullet fragmented twice...there were 3 bullets found.

And there were 3 casings found in the TSBD...
That seems to line up.

Where are the bullets from the 2nd shooter?

I see the small pieces of lead that are also at the archives:






Shouldn't there be a casing the same size as the ones that Oswald fired into their bodies?

 

[condorkristy]

I will tell you this. Castro did not kill JFK. The mafia did not kill JFK. Neither could have controlled the investigation.

I agree. I don't think Castro or the Mob or even the CIA/NSA/DIA or any US government entity did it. I think Oswald did it with unofficial pledges of assistance from the Eastern Bloc nations or Cuba and or Russia.

"Controlling" the investigation was not important in my own theory...what would they find out? There was no paper trail to uncover.

 

[PNWest]

Here is what the National Archives has:

First Bullet:
View attachment 58971

Second Bullet:
View attachment 58972

Magic Bullet
View attachment 58973

So unless a bullet fragmented twice...there were 3 bullets found.

And there were 3 casings found in the TSBD...
That seems to line up.

Where are the bullets from the 2nd shooter?

I see the small pieces of lead that are also at the archives:

View attachment 58974
View attachment 58975

View attachment 58976

Shouldn't there be a casing the same size as the ones that Oswald fired into their bodies?

You just showed lead from three bullets. Allegedly the first shot missed the limo completely. That makes four (see James Teague wounded) . If you are correct and Oswald did all the shooting then either the Warren Commission was wrong and 3 bullets entered the limo from Oswald and one missed completely and hit the curb down the street and wounded Teague (and Oswald somehow disposed of an empty casing) OR there was another shooter.
OR

 

[trapdoor]

Lee Harvey Oswald was working for the CIA. This was in the days of Hoover and Hoover spied on absolutely everyone in the government. Oswald agreed to spy on the CIA for Hoover... IOW, he became an informant, or whisperer. GHWBush was 2nd in command at the CIA, behind Dulles. The CIA discovered that Oswald was informing Hoover and set him up to take the fall for the JFK assassination. Jack Ruby was part of the mob and a willing member of the conspiracy against JFK. A week before the hit, Oswald delivered six rifles to Jack Ruby for the job. Ruby placed his men in pairs at 3 locations in the square, triangulating the kill zone. A 7th man was up in the book depository, parked in the window by Oswald's desk, firing a rifle recently stolen from Oswald. Oswald himself went down to the yard in front of the book depository to watch the murder from a safe location... he was only 15-20 feet from Zapruder. GHWBush was also watching from the same location.

Ruby killed Oswald before Oswald could rat on him.

Bush was running for Senate at the time of the assassination. He was in private industry, and not working for the CIA. There is one article that claims he was also a CIA operative at this time, but the article has never been corroborated.

 

[condorkristy]

You just showed lead from three bullets. Allegedly the first shot missed the limo completely. That makes four (see James Teague wounded) . If you are correct and Oswald did all the shooting then either the Warren Commission was wrong and 3 bullets entered the limo from Oswald and one missed completely and hit the curb down the street and wounded Teague (and Oswald somehow disposed of an empty casing) OR there was another shooter.
OR

Good points. I don't doubt what your saying but can you quote the Warren Commission to where it says the first bullet missed?

 

[PNWest]

Good points. I don't doubt what your saying but can you quote the Warren Commission to where it says the first bullet missed?

The Warren Commission didn't specify whether they thought that the first or the second bullet missed completely, most believing they thought it was the first shot that missed (based on the angles). Everyone agrees that the last shot hit. Even if it was the second shot that missed it doesn't explain the extra lead.

You can change my sentence to "Allegedly one shot missed the limo completely. " and the point is exactly the same. One way to account for this would be to have all three bullets hit inside the limo and a fragment from the headshot wound Teague. This seems to be rejected by almost everyone because the last shot was far enough down Elm Street to make the angle close to impossible and the bullet that allegedly hit JFK and then Connally did not fragment (it's in the National Archives today.

Single-bullet theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PNWest]

Good points. I don't doubt what your saying but can you quote the Warren Commission to where it says the first bullet missed?

By the way if you are interested check this book out - Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong. From the title and the premise (that there were 2 Oswalds developed by US intelligence starting BEFORE WWII) is absolutely off the wall. But the level of detail in it is scary. I do not know what the authors background is but I found it hard to believe the level of detail in the book. I originally thought that the guy must be some kind of crank and sure as hell wasn't going to pay $75 (it's $90 now) on Amazon to find out - https://www.amazon.com/Harvey-Lee-John-Armstrong/dp/0974509701

But being a cheap old Geezer I found a free PDF copy online - https://www.krusch.com/books/kennedy/Harvey_And_Lee.pdf I read somewhere that the author was OK with the free version being distributed but can't find that link.

Anyway if you want to jump down the rabbit hole download it and check it out. There are tons of footnotes documenting what he writes. Definitely not a typical KOOK book. Beware that this is not an easy read it is very detail oriented.