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Just looked up our ballots here in Oregon. Wife and I voted 10/28, and I hand-delivered ballots same day to the drop box at city hall

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
You completely ignore the sources of the information I have linked to. What are your sources?
The thousand years of demonstrated repeated government incompetence and malfeasance. You completely ignore the fact that despite all your assurances that "there is nothing to see here, move along," the American people continue to lose faith in the electoral process. As I said, since I have no way of knowing whether my ballot was counted at all, let alone correctly, I must assume it was not.

With blockchain voting, I can see my vote using my "key" and everyone else can see it but not link it to me without my key. It completely does away with in person voting and makes it as simple as sending a text message. That would increase participation, would it not? Why would anyone be against that?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
The thousand years of demonstrated repeated government incompetence and malfeasance. You completely ignore the fact that despite all your assurances that "there is nothing to see here, move along," the American people continue to lose faith in the electoral process. As I said, since I have no way of knowing whether my ballot was counted at all, let alone correctly, I must assume it was not.

With blockchain voting, I can see my vote using my "key" and everyone else can see it but not link it to me without my key. It completely does away with in person voting and makes it as simple as sending a text message. That would increase participation, would it not? Why would anyone be against that?
FTX
 
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Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
I think you mean FTX and that was a simple case of theft, not hacking. None of the customers transactions were compromised. So yeah, a candidate's vote "wallet" could be looted of votes (by the depository), but the total votes "deposited" is a public record that cannot be changed. How do you think they know how much SBF stole?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I think you mean FTX and that was a simple case of theft, not hacking. None of the customers transactions were compromised. So yeah, a candidate's vote "wallet" could be looted of votes (by the depository), but the total votes "deposited" is a public record that cannot be changed. How do you think they know how much SBF stole?
You assume to know more than you do. If some one with priv access can fraudulently update the voter database, they could certainly do the same with a blockchain database.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
You assume to know more than you do. If some one with priv access can fraudulently update the voter database, they could certainly do the same with a blockchain database.
So why don't people "fraudulently update" the blockchain database to award themselves billions of bitcoin?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Where are you finding all the "angels" who eschew every opportunity to put their thumbs on the scales for their preferred candidates?
I find them in every precinct in the country. Where are you finding people who have found ways to bypass cross checks and secure processes to win an election, even risking jail?

I notice that you only seem to find these evil doers in some areas and only in some elections. So if your preferred candidate wins, it must be a free and fair election. If your guy loses...."FRAUD"!!!!

These processes have evolved over two hundred years. If a flaw in the system is found, it is addressed. If a person is found to have committed election violations, they are prosecuted.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
As of tonight, 11/10, both votes UNCOUNTED.

Why is America now a Third World alsoran? What happened that we can’t even do things that we did seamlessly decades ago? Incredibly frustrating garbage.
You say your vote was uncounted. Voter records show a ballot was received. How, once your ballot is separated from the envelope and moved to the tabulators, how would they update your record as "counted"? They don't, because it is an anonymous ballot.

You claim to have been able to see "counted" in the past. That is a lie.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I think you mean FTX and that was a simple case of theft, not hacking. None of the customers transactions were compromised. So yeah, a candidate's vote "wallet" could be looted of votes (by the depository), but the total votes "deposited" is a public record that cannot be changed. How do you think they know how much SBF stole?
FTX was a case of the people who managed the blockchain database being able to do transactions that moved value from one account to another. What would stop them from moving votes from one candidate to another? What would stop them from intercepting your query about who you voted for and returning a record from a shadow table, rather than the one they submitted to tip the scale?

What makes you think a "public record" cannot be changed? System security is the only thing standing between data validity and a corrupted record. That is true for a blockchain database or the existing voter data bases used in all states.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
FTX was a case of the people who managed the blockchain database being able to do transactions that moved value from one account to another. What would stop them from moving votes from one candidate to another? What would stop them from intercepting your query about who you voted for and returning a record from a shadow table, rather than the one they submitted to tip the scale?

What makes you think a "public record" cannot be changed? System security is the only thing standing between data validity and a corrupted record. That is true for a blockchain database or the existing voter data bases used in all states.
The people whose BTC it was have the blockchain record of their movement of their BTC to FTX. It's not like FTX can move BTC from one person's account to another without it showing up in the blockchain. Nor can they erase the blockchain record of it's transfer to FTX. So they know it was in person A's account prior to that (unauthorized) transfer to person b's account. They just don't know who person B is (in most cases). Once person B converts it to cash, it is gone. But person A still has the record of ownership prior to the theft. So how are you going to transfer votes from candidate A's account to candidate B's without the blockchain record of it having been moved? More importantly, why would candidate B steal a vote that cannot be (successfully) converted into his own because it was publicly removed from his opponent's "wallet?"

As for your "shadow table" straw man, if they could do that, there'd be people stealing BTC all day every day, and people would have long ago ceased using it. Same thing if the blockchain database could be changed. You didn't provide any examples of either of those wrt BTC because there aren't any.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
The people whose BTC it was have the blockchain record of their movement of their BTC to FTX. It's not like FTX can move BTC from one person's account to another without it showing up in the blockchain. Nor can they erase the blockchain record of it's transfer to FTX. So they know it was in person A's account prior to that (unauthorized) transfer to person b's account. They just don't know who person B is (in most cases). Once person B converts it to cash, it is gone. But person A still has the record of ownership prior to the theft. So how are you going to transfer votes from candidate A's account to candidate B's without the blockchain record of it having been moved? More importantly, why would candidate B steal a vote that cannot be (successfully) converted into his own because it was publicly removed from his opponent's "wallet?"

As for your "shadow table" straw man, if they could do that, there'd be people stealing BTC all day every day, and people would have long ago ceased using it. Same thing if the blockchain database could be changed. You didn't provide any examples of either of those wrt BTC because there aren't any.
It is entirely dependent on who owns the database and who writes the code that receives your transaction. I did code for NASDAQ that actually intercepted incoming transactions. The problem was that there was a flaw in the OS. You could send in a logon transaction that contained an invalid password. The OS routine would read the USERID file to check the passwords, which meant that it actually returned the error as well as the real password. That allowed the next transaction to be a valid logon. My intercept prevented that by checking the incoming USERID. My point is that you assume the person with the ROOT logon cannot actually manipulate a blockchain database. You are wrong.

In practically any software release, having to do with financial data, goes through a rigorous process to walk through the code to verify it does what it is supposed to do and nothing more. That process is followed with today's voter data base software.
You imply the software that updates your voter record can be hacked, but a blockchain database cannot. The fact is that with the appropriate logon you can do what you want.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
It is entirely dependent on who owns the database and who writes the code that receives your transaction. I did code for NASDAQ that actually intercepted incoming transactions. The problem was that there was a flaw in the OS. You could send in a logon transaction that contained an invalid password. The OS routine would read the USERID file to check the passwords, which meant that it actually returned the error as well as the real password. That allowed the next transaction to be a valid logon. My intercept prevented that by checking the incoming USERID. My point is that you assume the person with the ROOT logon cannot actually manipulate a blockchain database. You are wrong.

In practically any software release, having to do with financial data, goes through a rigorous process to walk through the code to verify it does what it is supposed to do and nothing more. That process is followed with today's voter data base software.
You imply the software that updates your voter record can be hacked, but a blockchain database cannot. The fact is that with the appropriate logon you can do what you want.
Again, if it were possible to steal (or create) BTC by hacking the blockchain, someone would have done it by now.

I don't believe I ever suggested that the voter database was being manipulated - just that the voting processes that use it are.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Again, if it were possible to steal (or create) BTC by hacking the blockchain, someone would have done it by now.

I don't believe I ever suggested that the voter database was being manipulated - just that the voting processes that use it are.
Hacking it isn't necessary. If you have the security to maintain the database, you can use the software written to update or read it can do what you want.

If the voter database is not being hacked then how in hell is anyone coming up with fraudulent ballots? You keep running into the fact that there are numerous crosschecks.

You also have failed to come up with any sort of flaw in the system that shows the process is allowing tens of thousands of fraudulent votes. So while you imply that a blockchain database would solve the problem, you admit the voter database isn't the problem.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Hacking it isn't necessary. If you have the security to maintain the database, you can use the software written to update or read it can do what you want.

If the voter database is not being hacked then how in hell is anyone coming up with fraudulent ballots? You keep running into the fact that there are numerous crosschecks.

You also have failed to come up with any sort of flaw in the system that shows the process is allowing tens of thousands of fraudulent votes. So while you imply that a blockchain database would solve the problem, you admit the voter database isn't the problem.
Obviously, the distributed (and transparent) nature of the blockchain administration is preventing that from happening.

Either through fake registrations, or voting in someone else's name.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Obviously, the distributed (and transparent) nature of the blockchain administration is preventing that from happening.

Either through fake registrations, or voting in someone else's name.
1. Fake registrations? Bullshit. In PA the first time you vote after registering an ID is required.
2. Really? So hundreds of thousands of voters are letting someone else vote in their names? If you went to vote and were turned down because someone had already cast a vote as you, would you just so "Oh, Well" and go home?

Have you done any kind of database administration? I have. I have had reports on every access, every read, every update or record deleted. That is what prevents illegal access.

A blockchain database is only as transparent as the software that fetches records and sends them back to you allows. Just as transparent as current voter databases.
The only difference is that you want a record of how you voted in each election.

Would you want a blockchain database of guns you own?
 

RickWA

Senator
See post #16. Isn’t Oregon heavily Republican, outside Portland, Eugene, etc.?
Democrat supermajorities in houses, every governorship since I was a kid in the 80’s, etc. It doesn’t get bluer than Oregon. If one seeks to make the argument that it is conservative where there are almost NO people, feel free.
 
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