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Just looked up our ballots here in Oregon. Wife and I voted 10/28, and I hand-delivered ballots same day to the drop box at city hall

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Democrat supermajorities in houses, every governorship since I was a kid in the 80’s, etc. It doesn’t get bluer than Oregon. If one seeks to make the argument that it is conservative where there are almost NO people, feel free.
Victor Atiyeh 1979 to 1987, last republican governor.
Republicans controlled the House from 1992 to 2006 and the Senate from 1995 to 2002.

Party control of Oregon state government - Ballotpedia
 
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Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
1. Fake registrations? Bullshit. In PA the first time you vote after registering an ID is required.
2. Really? So hundreds of thousands of voters are letting someone else vote in their names? If you went to vote and were turned down because someone had already cast a vote as you, would you just so "Oh, Well" and go home?

Have you done any kind of database administration? I have. I have had reports on every access, every read, every update or record deleted. That is what prevents illegal access.

A blockchain database is only as transparent as the software that fetches records and sends them back to you allows. Just as transparent as current voter databases.
The only difference is that you want a record of how you voted in each election.

Would you want a blockchain database of guns you own?
That's what the rules say, as they do with regards to signature verification to vote. If the latter isn't being followed, why would you assume the former is?

It doesn't have to be "hundreds of thousands" - and if you know your Auntie Rose in the nursing home isn't voting, you could show up at her precinct and say you are her, as no ID is required.

Again, I never said or implied that someone is monkeying with the voter database.

The blockchain is robust enough that no one is able to manipulate it. Yes, I would like to be able to verify that my vote counted as cast, wouldn't you?

Whataboutism is a sign you are losing the debate...
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
That's what the rules say, as they do with regards to signature verification to vote. If the latter isn't being followed, why would you assume the former is?

It doesn't have to be "hundreds of thousands" - and if you know your Auntie Rose in the nursing home isn't voting, you could show up at her precinct and say you are her, as no ID is required.

Again, I never said or implied that someone is monkeying with the voter database.

The blockchain is robust enough that no one is able to manipulate it. Yes, I would like to be able to verify that my vote counted as cast, wouldn't you?

Whataboutism is a sign you are losing the debate...
So you claim one instance of a poll worker not requiring your signature on the poll book. How would the blockchain database help in the case of Auntie Rose? It wouldn't.

You think a blockchain database is impervious. It isn't. It wasn't in use of the two credit card companies where I worked and not in use at the last bank I worked for or at NASDAQ. Why wouldn't they have switched, given the billions at risk?

No. It doesn't have to be hundreds of thousands, but it certainly does have to be in the hundreds per precinct. While you claim that you didn't sign the poll book, I have reason to doubt you. For one there are no stories about such a failure to follow the rules. Did you report the poll worker? Tell anyone? I'd bet not. Were there no poll watchers present? They'd certainly see the problem and report it.
 
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Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
So you claim one instance of a poll worker not requiring your signature on the poll book. How would the blockchain database help in the case of Auntie Rose? It wouldn't.

You think a blockchain database is impervious. It isn't. It wasn't in use of the two credit card companies where I worked and not in use at the last bank I worked for or at NASDAQ. Why wouldn't they have switched, given the billions at risk?

No. It doesn't have to be hundreds of thousands, but it certainly does have to be in the hundreds per precinct. While you claim that you didn't sign the poll book, I have reason to doubt you. For one there are no stories about such a failure to follow the rules. Did you report the poll worker? Tell anyone? I'd bet not.
Again, if one isn't required, we have to assume none are. You'd have to have access to Auntie Rose's vote wallet - maybe she would give it to you, maybe she wouldn't.

You still have not provided any evidence of someone being able to create BTC by manipulating the block chain. I don't know, IT "security" workers seeking job security?

No I didn't - they weren't requiring any signatures of the people in front of or behind me. There are no "stories" about it because nobody follows the rules - it would be a "dog bites man" story.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Again, if one isn't required, we have to assume none are. You'd have to have access to Auntie Rose's vote wallet - maybe she would give it to you, maybe she wouldn't.

You still have not provided any evidence of someone being able to create BTC by manipulating the block chain. I don't know, IT "security" workers seeking job security?

No I didn't - they weren't requiring any signatures of the people in front of or behind me. There are no "stories" about it because nobody follows the rules - it would be a "dog bites man" story.
You imply a flaw in the system that actually bypasses an important fact.

Poll book reconciliation, the process of scanning poll book pages to update information in the state’s voter registry, is a means of flagging mail ballots submitted by voters who also voted in person. It’s a practice all counties perform. Philadelphia made poll book reconciliation a part of the process for counting mail ballots after the expansion of mail voting in Pennsylvania in 2020.

Pa. election: results, ballot counting updates (inquirer.com)

So for your idea to work Auntie Rose would have to check her own vote...right? If she didn't then nobody would know. Somehow you think only Auntie Rose would be able to use her "vote wallet" and nobody would be able to obtain the credentials to vote in her name. Sounds unlikely.

"Nobody follows the rules"? So how do republicans ever win elections? Or are you saying republicans are cheating as well? In reality, I just don't believe that you didn't sign the poll book. I don't believe that nobody is signing poll books. How in hell would any precinct pass an audit? Weren't poll watchers there to oversee the process?

You seem to think your accusation is sufficient to persuade anyone to think hundreds or thousands of poll workers are ignoring the rules and that auditors are ok with that.

No matter which way you turn, you are still relying on human beings and process cross checks.
 
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Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
You imply a flaw in the system that actually bypasses an important fact.

Poll book reconciliation, the process of scanning poll book pages to update information in the state’s voter registry, is a means of flagging mail ballots submitted by voters who also voted in person. It’s a practice all counties perform. Philadelphia made poll book reconciliation a part of the process for counting mail ballots after the expansion of mail voting in Pennsylvania in 2020.

Pa. election: results, ballot counting updates (inquirer.com)

So for your idea to work Auntie Rose would have to check her own vote...right? If she didn't then nobody would know. Somehow you think only Auntie Rose would be able to use her "vote wallet" and nobody would be able to obtain the credentials to vote in her name. Sounds unlikely.

"Nobody follows the rules"? So how do republicans ever win elections? Or are you saying republicans are cheating as well? In reality, I just don't believe that you didn't sign the poll book. I don't believe that nobody is signing poll books. How in hell would any precinct pass an audit? You seem to think your accusation is sufficient to persuade anyone to think hundreds or thousands of poll workers are ignoring the rules and that auditors are ok with that.

No matter which way you turn, you are still relying on human beings and process cross checks.
Yes, we have established that the rules exist...and that they are routinely ignored.

And yes, no system is immune to cheating - we're simply looking for ways to make it harder than it is now (which is pretty easy).

Just because nobody follows the rules doesn't mean everyone is cheating - just that the opportunity exists. I did not sign or even show ID...period! Apparently the PA "auditors" are okay with that.

Yes, and the more you rely on bureaucrats, the more fraud waste and abuse you are going to see.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Yes, we have established that the rules exist...and that they are routinely ignored.

And yes, no system is immune to cheating - we're simply looking for ways to make it harder than it is now (which is pretty easy).

Just because nobody follows the rules doesn't mean everyone is cheating - just that the opportunity exists. I did not sign or even show ID...period! Apparently the PA "auditors" are okay with that.

Yes, and the more you rely on bureaucrats, the more fraud waste and abuse you are going to see.
Poll watchers didn't report the fact that poll workers in your precinct were violating the process? Yeah, sure thing. No, you have not shown they are "routinely ignored". You have shown to be capable of routine conspiracy theory development.

You say you didn't sign the poll book. Why would I believe you?
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Poll watchers didn't report the fact that poll workers in your precinct were violating the process? Yeah, sure thing. No, you have not shown they are "routinely ignored". You have shown to be capable of routine conspiracy theory development.

You say you didn't sign the poll book. Why would I believe you?
Why would I lie?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Why would I lie?
You just said nobody is following the rules. You lied about that. You claim a substantial violation of the rules at your polling place, yet you didn't report it to anyone. Why were partisan poll watchers not complaining about it?

Your story stinks.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
You just said nobody is following the rules. You lied about that. You claim a substantial violation of the rules at your polling place, yet you didn't report it to anyone. Why were partisan poll watchers not complaining about it?

Your story stinks.
I said based on my experience, why would I not assume that nobody is following the rules?

There were no Republican poll watchers. And the Democrats sure aren't going to complain about it.

Have you ever complained to a public official about public incompetence or malfeasance? F*ck, I'd have been there for three hours filling out paperwork...
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I said based on my experience, why would I not assume that nobody is following the rules?

There were no Republican poll watchers. And the Democrats sure aren't going to complain about it.

Have you ever complained to a public official about public incompetence or malfeasance? F*ck, I'd have been there for three hours filling out paperwork...
Completely transparent bullshit
 
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