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LOL! Whatta you know - wearing a mask DOES make a difference...

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
How can it be consistent to claim COVID is not aerosolized and the argue that wearing a mask traps COVID which you continue to breathe in or somehow blow out of the mask through a gap at your nose?

Then there is your argument that COVID is too small to trapped in the mask at all.

Then there is your bizarre opinion that the medical experts are fascists who want to control you by forcing you to wear a mask or get vaccinated. Yup, far better to listen to some internet troll spouting the misinformation from a source that won't even reveal his name.
I clearly stated that the mask gets saturated (every sick person sheds virus in their saliva) and then people TOUCH the saturated mask before handling the fruit at the grocery store or opening the rest room door. That is my premise. How is that "claiming it is areosolized." I also mentioned, just for argument's sake that if it were "aerosolized" breathing through a saturated mask is going to send particles into the air with every breath because once the droplet dries the remaining virus particles will blow right through the mask (or out the gaps because no on wears them properly).

They were clearly acting like fascists and we know that now because of all of the facts that have been revealed that demonstrate they were fully aware that none of their advice made any medical sense, but they did it anyway because they liked the feeling they got from ordering people around. You get it too - admit it...
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I clearly stated that the mask gets saturated (every sick person sheds virus in their saliva) and then people TOUCH the saturated mask before handling the fruit at the grocery store or opening the rest room door. That is my premise. How is that "claiming it is areosolized." I also mentioned, just for argument's sake that if it were "aerosolized" breathing through a saturated mask is going to send particles into the air with every breath because once the droplet dries the remaining virus particles will blow right through the mask (or out the gaps because no on wears them properly).

They were clearly acting like fascists and we know that now because of all of the facts that have been revealed that demonstrate they were fully aware that none of their advice made any medical sense, but they did it anyway because they liked the feeling they got from ordering people around. You get it too - admit it...
If people shed the virus by breathing, coughing, sneezing...it is airborne.
If you touch the outside of the mask and there is covid present...even more evidence that it is aerosolized and that the mask trapped it and prevented your inhaling it.

Having worn a mask for about 7 or 8 hours in the restaurant, I can tell you that the inside of the mask continued to be moist by my continuing to breathe. I suppose of I took the mask off and set it aside it might dry out and if I had covid I would now be breathing in those particles and maybe have even allowed them to escape the mask. The facts of my experience show that didn't happen. None of my employees got covid at the restaurant...and the two who were forced to take time off for Covid were exposed by family members and showed symptoms within two days of that exposure.

I got covid after I quit wearing a mask and flew up to Minnesota. Previous flights I had worn a mask.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
If people shed the virus by breathing, coughing, sneezing...it is airborne.
If you touch the outside of the mask and there is covid present...even more evidence that it is aerosolized and that the mask trapped it and prevented your inhaling it.

Having worn a mask for about 7 or 8 hours in the restaurant, I can tell you that the inside of the mask continued to be moist by my continuing to breathe. I suppose of I took the mask off and set it aside it might dry out and if I had covid I would now be breathing in those particles and maybe have even allowed them to escape the mask. The facts of my experience show that didn't happen. None of my employees got covid at the restaurant...and the two who were forced to take time off for Covid were exposed by family members and showed symptoms within two days of that exposure.

I got covid after I quit wearing a mask and flew up to Minnesota. Previous flights I had worn a mask.
Again, none of that is data.

No, coughing and sneezing is emitting particles with the virus attached. I saw a recent article in Bloomberg on a study that showed immediately after being expelled, the virus begins dying, and within minutes it becomes completely harmless. I would posit that wrt "aerosolized" virus, if there even is such a thing, you see the exact same effect.

Now, I would be willing to bet that, in the case of wearing a (warm, moist) mask, that isn't the case, as a warm, moist environment is perfect for culturing a virus. So instead of exhaling the virus particles, which immediately begin to die, your mask catches them in a perfect environment for them to survive (perhaps even thrive) so that every time you touch your mask (and from my observations, almost everyone did so almost atavistically), you are dipping your fingers into a flourishing pool of live virus.

Considering those facts, why would anyone with an ounce of logic believe that masking controls transmission, at least in the real world? How's your logic working these days? Oh, right, you are a democrat, so I don't have to ask - it's pretty obvious...
 

EatTheRich

President
Again, none of that is data.

No, coughing and sneezing is emitting particles with the virus attached. I saw a recent article in Bloomberg on a study that showed immediately after being expelled, the virus begins dying, and within minutes it becomes completely harmless. I would posit that wrt "aerosolized" virus, if there even is such a thing, you see the exact same effect.

Now, I would be willing to bet that, in the case of wearing a (warm, moist) mask, that isn't the case, as a warm, moist environment is perfect for culturing a virus. So instead of exhaling the virus particles, which immediately begin to die, your mask catches them in a perfect environment for them to survive (perhaps even thrive) so that every time you touch your mask (and from my observations, almost everyone did so almost atavistically), you are dipping your fingers into a flourishing pool of live virus.

Considering those facts, why would anyone with an ounce of logic believe that masking controls transmission, at least in the real world? How's your logic working these days? Oh, right, you are a democrat, so I don't have to ask - it's pretty obvious...
1. Viruses aren't alive and don't die.
2. This virus can only reproduce by infecting human cells or those of other closely related mammals.
3. Breathing is emitting particles with the virus attached. The mask stops those particles from escaping into the general environment and immediately exposing nearby people.
4. This is all basic grade-school science.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
1. Viruses aren't alive and don't die.
2. This virus can only reproduce by infecting human cells or those of other closely related mammals.
3. Breathing is emitting particles with the virus attached. The mask stops those particles from escaping into the general environment and immediately exposing nearby people.
4. This is all basic grade-school science.
1 & 2 - Which is why it begins to degrade fast as soon as it is expelled.
3 - And traps them in a medium that is ideal for maintaining their viability so that fomites can be passed around easier.
4 - Then why was masking never recommended as a means to control viral transmission before covid?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Again, none of that is data.

No, coughing and sneezing is emitting particles with the virus attached. I saw a recent article in Bloomberg on a study that showed immediately after being expelled, the virus begins dying, and within minutes it becomes completely harmless. I would posit that wrt "aerosolized" virus, if there even is such a thing, you see the exact same effect.

Now, I would be willing to bet that, in the case of wearing a (warm, moist) mask, that isn't the case, as a warm, moist environment is perfect for culturing a virus. So instead of exhaling the virus particles, which immediately begin to die, your mask catches them in a perfect environment for them to survive (perhaps even thrive) so that every time you touch your mask (and from my observations, almost everyone did so almost atavistically), you are dipping your fingers into a flourishing pool of live virus.

Considering those facts, why would anyone with an ounce of logic believe that masking controls transmission, at least in the real world? How's your logic working these days? Oh, right, you are a democrat, so I don't have to ask - it's pretty obvious...
Hmmm, funny thing. No link to that Bloomberg article. So if that is correct, how would one get infected from "fomites"? The virus died almost as soon as expelled, right?

"If there is such a thing"? Wtf? You post an article precisely stating that it does exist, but dies shortly after being expelled and now you say there was no virus in the mucus expelled.

You continue to talk about touching the outside of the mask, which would be particles captured from other people who were infected and coughed or sneezed close enough for you to have breathed them in. If I have covid then particles inside of my mask would been expelled and absorbed by someone else if I were not wearing a mask.

Logic? Wow...not in your post.
 

EatTheRich

President
1 & 2 - Which is why it begins to degrade fast as soon as it is expelled.
3 - And traps them in a medium that is ideal for maintaining their viability so that fomites can be passed around easier.
4 - Then why was masking never recommended as a means to control viral transmission before covid?
1-2. Yes.
3. How so? What living human cells are on the mask?
4. It was, of course. If you ignore surgeons, there is always SARS to recall.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
1 & 2 - Which is why it begins to degrade fast as soon as it is expelled.
3 - And traps them in a medium that is ideal for maintaining their viability so that fomites can be passed around easier.
4 - Then why was masking never recommended as a means to control viral transmission before covid?
"Begins to degrade" and degrades to the point where it is not capable of infection are two different things.


The amount of virus infected people expel (which can be substantially reduced by wearing masks)
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
"Begins to degrade" and degrades to the point where it is not capable of infection are two different things.


The amount of virus infected people expel (which can be substantially reduced by wearing masks)
From your link:

The virus lives best in humans, but it can last on hard surfaces, like doorknobs and railings

How do you think people atavistically tugging at their (extremely uncomfortable) covid saturated masks as they approach the doors and railings they encounter all...the...time?

Linsey Marr, aerosol engineer:

In an interview for 60 Minutes, CBS News chief medical correspondent Dr. Jon LaPook posed that question to Linsey Marr, a Virginia Tech university professor specializing in aerosol science.

"They are very helpful in reducing the chances that the person will get COVID because it's reducing the amount of virus that you would inhale from the air around you," Marr said about masks.

No mask is 100% effective. An N95, for example, is named as such because it is at least 95% efficient at blocking airborne particles when used properly. But even if a mask has an 80% efficiency, Marr said, it still offers meaningful protection.

"That greatly reduces the chance that I'm going to become infected," Marr said.


SO there you go, According to this "MacArthur genius" your mask protects YOU from taking in the virus. So wear one to your f*cking heart's content. But leave those of us who know that if you have to use a PCR test to "prove" your theory wrt aerosolized virus, then you have an agenda (and it isn't "advancing scientific knowledge." If you are so sure she's right, why do you feel the need to make others wear them? Just wear your damn mask and stfu...
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Hmmm, funny thing. No link to that Bloomberg article. So if that is correct, how would one get infected from "fomites"? The virus died almost as soon as expelled, right?

"If there is such a thing"? Wtf? You post an article precisely stating that it does exist, but dies shortly after being expelled and now you say there was no virus in the mucus expelled.

You continue to talk about touching the outside of the mask, which would be particles captured from other people who were infected and coughed or sneezed close enough for you to have breathed them in. If I have covid then particles inside of my mask would been expelled and absorbed by someone else if I were not wearing a mask.

Logic? Wow...not in your post.
Not if the virus is attached to human dna, say like saliva...or snot (go google "fomite"). If it is in the atmosphere, it either isn't attached to dna or it is such a small amount that it dries almost immediately (which is why it doesn't last long).

Like @EatTheRich said - this is seventh grade science. I wonder how that got past that "MacArthur Genius" Linsey Marr???

If your mask really does capture other people's virus, how the f*ck is it a good idea to keep it mashed over your nose and mouth all day? You have to be stupid or a rabid ideologue to think that isn't going to make its way into your nose or mouth. THAT, my good man, is "logic.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Not if the virus is attached to human dna, say like saliva...or snot (go google "fomite"). If it is in the atmosphere, it either isn't attached to dna or it is such a small amount that it dries almost immediately (which is why it doesn't last long).

Like @EatTheRich said - this is seventh grade science. I wonder how that got past that "MacArthur Genius" Linsey Marr???

If your mask really does capture other people's virus, how the f*ck is it a good idea to keep it mashed over your nose and mouth all day? You have to be stupid or a rabid ideologue to think that isn't going to make its way into your nose or mouth. THAT, my good man, is "logic.
Majority I witness wearing mask have it Below their nose
 

EatTheRich

President
Not if the virus is attached to human dna, say like saliva...or snot (go google "fomite"). If it is in the atmosphere, it either isn't attached to dna or it is such a small amount that it dries almost immediately (which is why it doesn't last long).

Like @EatTheRich said - this is seventh grade science. I wonder how that got past that "MacArthur Genius" Linsey Marr???

If your mask really does capture other people's virus, how the f*ck is it a good idea to keep it mashed over your nose and mouth all day? You have to be stupid or a rabid ideologue to think that isn't going to make its way into your nose or mouth. THAT, my good man, is "logic.
Your mask captures most of the fluid you exhale or expel before it gets out into the air. The condensate then becomes soaked up by the fibers and the viruses rapidly lose their ability to multiply. That masks are effective js supported not just by the experimental evidence but also by retrospective case-control studies demonstrating the efficacy of mask mandates.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Your mask captures most of the fluid you exhale or expel before it gets out into the air. The condensate then becomes soaked up by the fibers and the viruses rapidly lose their ability to multiply. That masks are effective js supported not just by the experimental evidence but also by retrospective case-control studies demonstrating the efficacy of mask mandates.
Like this one wrt ORs?

Results
The results indicate no difference in surgical site infections between the operations where masks were worn versus the operations where no mask was worn.

Clinical relevance of masks in the operating room? A systematic review - ScienceDirect
 

EatTheRich

President
Like this one wrt ORs?

Results
The results indicate no difference in surgical site infections between the operations where masks were worn versus the operations where no mask was worn.

Clinical relevance of masks in the operating room? A systematic review - ScienceDirect
Based on a total of 4 articles which are an average of 32 years old.

From your link:

Overall, the results indicate no difference in surgical site infections between the operations where masks were worn versus the operations where no mask was worn. However, this is of limited evidence as there have been few studies that were randomized control trials focused on clinical outcomes.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Based on a total of 4 articles which are an average of 32 years old.

From your link:

Overall, the results indicate no difference in surgical site infections between the operations where masks were worn versus the operations where no mask was worn. However, this is of limited evidence as there have been few studies that were randomized control trials focused on clinical outcomes.
If the masking worked, one of them would have turned up something to suggest so. I noticed your response omitted any data that indicates they do work.

Lets face it, if there were any good data that showed masking works, we wouldn't be debating it.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
If the masking worked, one of them would have turned up something to suggest so. I noticed your response omitted any data that indicates they do work.

Lets face it, if there were any good data that showed masking works, we wouldn't be debating it.
If there were actual data showing they didn't...you could actually claim you were right. Your posts usually end with a suggestion that more testing be done...

So if you were wrong and as in Norway, we had stopped any suggestion we use them and we had a giant surge in cases...people would die...

Would that be a worthwhile gamble?
 
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