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Meanwhile, remember who was right all along wrt Ukraine...

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
You'd have been amusing on December 8, 1941...can't win, so let's save our cash for other things.

So now we should have let Ukraine fight with the Russians on their own unless we were going to send troops?

It ain't over, yet. Too soon for you to declare Ukrainian surrender and Putin's victory.
The only thing better than winning a war is not starting one.

You said you liked "research" - try doing some:


And get back to me...
 
It sure as hell doesn't begin in 1783...Again Crimea was part of Ukraine until 2014.Try to keep up
What changed in 2014?

The US supported a violent, armed right-wing coup in Kiev that brought an anti-Russian government to power; that government had no intention of allowing Russia to maintain its naval base in Crimea.

Putin took the same steps any leader would take in a similar situation.

Once again, US meddling in the domestic affairs of countries on the opposite side of the planet led to the deaths and displacement of million of innocent civilians.

Who got rich from that?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-07/ukraine-war-revenue-arms-manufacturers-raytheon-javelin/101033002
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
What changed in 2014?

The US supported a violent, armed right-wing coup in Kiev that brought an anti-Russian government to power; that government had no intention of allowing Russia to maintain its naval base in Crimea.

Putin took the same steps any leader would take in a similar situation.

Once again, US meddling in the domestic affairs of countries on the opposite side of the planet led to the deaths and displacement of million of innocent civilians.

Who got rich from that?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-07/ukraine-war-revenue-arms-manufacturers-raytheon-javelin/101033002
How did the US get tens of thousands of Ukrainians to demonstrate against the pro-kremlin president?

How much is Putin spending on his invasion?

Read your link. People bought stock in companies...so what?
 
How did the US get tens of thousands of Ukrainians to demonstrate against the pro-kremlin president?

How much is Putin spending on his invasion?

Read your link. People bought stock in companies...so what?
People earn money from the deaths, maiming, and displacement of millions of Ukrainian civilians; does that sound like a moral problem to you?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
People earn money from the deaths, maiming, and displacement of millions of Ukrainian civilians; does that sound like a moral problem to you?
More for the invader to be making money as they murder the people of Ukraine than for those supplying weapons for the defenders...

For some reaon you don't seem too upset that Russians are making a profit.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
We can discuss that as soon as you admit there was zero justification for Putin's interference in Donbas in 2014 and his invasion of 2022.

There was no threat to Russia's western border. Ukraine had been the victim of Russian policy in the past....millions of Ukrainians died because of it. Ukraine was controlled by the Kremlin for decades after WWII. Why in hell would they not want to join a defensive alliance?

Poland has been a member of NATO for years. Has NATO invaded Russia from Polish territory? Nope. How about Hungary or the Czech republic? They all joined over 20 years ago.

One side invaded a sovereign nation without provocation...the other sent help to a nation victimized by a country run by a murderer who has killed or imprisoned those who disagree or criticize him....Ukraine is the victim here...not Putin, not Russia.

What border was the Kremlin defending in Georgia, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Czechoslovakia and Hungary?

Why in hell would they not want to join a defensive alliance?


So they wouldn't end up "wrecked?"
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
A few million "Soros bucks."
Sure thing...Here's $10...show up for a demonstration in Kyiv.

I don't suppose you have any evidence that Soros paid people to participate in demonstrations, do ya?

What happened in Libya? Gaddafi ordered his security people to open fire on demonstrators. That cost him his life.
What happened in Syria? Assad ordered his military to open fire on demonstrators. A civil war was the result and if not for help from Putin, he'd have lost.
What happened in Kyiv? Oh yeah...the security people open fire on demonstrators....more than 100 were killed. The Rada voted the president out and he fled the country.

You blame Soros?
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
If they had joined NATO in 2014 would Russia still have attacked Ukraine? Hell no.
So we can agree that Zelensky and Biden are both lying through their teeth when they say if Ukraine loses, Putin will roll right into the next (NATO) country? Hey, wait a minute, if I remember correctly you said exactly that a time or two here. Talk about someone's arguments contradicting each other...
 

EatTheRich

President
So we can agree that Zelensky and Biden are both lying through their teeth when they say if Ukraine loses, Putin will roll right into the next (NATO) country? Hey, wait a minute, if I remember correctly you said exactly that a time or two here. Talk about someone's arguments contradicting each other...
Russia is a lot weaker than it was in 2014, largely due to Ukrainian battlefield successes and also to the ongoing reversion to capitalism. A symptom is that the government is far more dependent on a permanent and ever-escalating state of war now than it was then.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
So we can agree that Zelensky and Biden are both lying through their teeth when they say if Ukraine loses, Putin will roll right into the next (NATO) country? Hey, wait a minute, if I remember correctly you said exactly that a time or two here. Talk about someone's arguments contradicting each other...
That was then. If Russia succeeds in the war in Ukraine, I don't think they will stop there. They already have troops in Moldova. You have numerous Putin associates talking about attacks on other countries. This is now.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
That was then. If Russia succeeds in the war in Ukraine, I don't think they will stop there. They already have troops in Moldova. You have numerous Putin associates talking about attacks on other countries. This is now.
GTFOOH! You yourself keep saying how much of their military strength is being sapped by the conflict in Ukraine. Now you claim that when they are done there they will be in a position to invade a NATO state? That is laughable. You are the one who keeps making inconsistent arguments here.
 

EatTheRich

President
GTFOOH! You yourself keep saying how much of their military strength is being sapped by the conflict in Ukraine. Now you claim that when they are done there they will be in a position to invade a NATO state? That is laughable. You are the one who keeps making inconsistent arguments here.
… if Ukraine is forced to bring a swift end to its resistance and knuckle under to Russia’s aggression …
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
GTFOOH! You yourself keep saying how much of their military strength is being sapped by the conflict in Ukraine. Now you claim that when they are done there they will be in a position to invade a NATO state? That is laughable. You are the one who keeps making inconsistent arguments here.
So Putin's allies are making empty threats? If we fail to support Ukraine, how long will it take Putin to rebuild? Will Putin see us as weak and unwilling to support Sweden or Finland? How about Moldova? Will China see our committment to Taiwan as a paper one?
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
So Putin's allies are making empty threats? If we fail to support Ukraine, how long will it take Putin to rebuild? Will Putin see us as weak and unwilling to support Sweden or Finland? How about Moldova? Will China see our committment to Taiwan as a paper one?
Sounds like a rationale for "permanent war" t me. You are the MIC's best friend.

Nah, lets just re-elect Trump and get about the business of developing (equal) economic relations with Russia.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Sounds like a rationale for "permanent war" t me. You are the MIC's best friend.

Nah, lets just re-elect Trump and get about the business of developing (equal) economic relations with Russia.
Trump's plan will force Ukraine to surrender. Putin would love to see Trump win...
Next we'll have Trump fire 50,000 federal workers and turn their positions into patronage jobs...say hello to Tamany Hall 2.

Oh yeah...then he can start his revenge tour and start rounding up any one who ever criticized him.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Trump's plan will force Ukraine to surrender. Putin would love to see Trump win...
Next we'll have Trump fire 50,000 federal workers and turn their positions into patronage jobs...say hello to Tamany Hall 2.

Oh yeah...then he can start his revenge tour and start rounding up any one who ever criticized him.
LOL! As if Biden's "plan" isn't getting Ukraine "wrecked." I would love to see boat loads of US made goods sailing off to Russia. If you think we couldn't do without 50,000 federal bureaucrats and nobody would even notice they were mission, you are even more delusional than I thought.

Nothing wrong with turning the tables on the radical progressives who hounded him out of office. Let their heads explode...
 
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