Now I think I fully understand the deviousness of the Alinskyites

[justoffal]

The Constitution separates the powers of government in such a way that given a virtuous populace who therefore elect virtuous leaders, no one branch of government will become more powerful than the others. ....quote from AOD monster thread on Constitutionist verus progressive....attributed to AOD.

Now I think I fully understand the deviousness of the Alinskyites. Degenerate the voting populous and you thereby degenerate the foundation upon which good law and common sense are built. Create a dependent society that can do nothing for itself.... not even think for itself. Tell them that self sufficiency is an evil thing. Tell them that the collective owes them a living....that it must take care of them. Tell them that the self sufficient ones will destory that relationship uless they are themselves destoyed. Those evil, self sufficent conservatives!! Eric Holder must arrest them all and then detain them indefintely!!

 

[GordonGecko]

You know...there's not an "Alinsky rule"....that Rush Limbaugh and Fox News and the Right doesn't use every day.

Go ahead...pick one and I'll show you.

 

[justoffal]

Heh....And MSNBC and CBS and so on and so forth......anyone who depends on the standard Media offering is at best...a dullard.

My post is a statement of agreement with the first Paragraph which is a quote from AOD's monster thread on Constituionist versus progressive.

 

[GordonGecko]

Pick one.

 

[justoffal]

Mind you I am waiting for Degsme here because we agreed to continue this sujbect off of the monster thread below....

However I would be amused to see this through for now. Okay...let's start with the Alinsky confusion tactic....confuse the masses...stir them up with no real reason and never tag-name the cause until it has attained a certain level of momentum.

 

[degsme]

The Constitution separates the powers of government in such a way that given a virtuous populace who therefore elect virtuous leaders, no one branch of government will become more powerful than the others. ....quote from AOD monster thread on Constitutionist verus progressive....attributed to AOD.

Now I think I fully understand the deviousness of the Alinskyites. Degenerate the voting populous and you thereby degenerate the foundation upon which good law and common sense are built.

The whole thing is logical fallacy stacked on logical fallacy

There is no evidence of a "virtuous populace" much less any historic example of a "virtuous populace there fore elects virtuous leaders". Nor is there any evidence that a virtuous populace NECESSARILy will elect only virtuous leaders. For example a populace may be extremely virtuous and not consider lying to be something that occurs at all, and thus be increadibly susceptible to demagougic and dishonest rhetoric thereby electing "non-virtuous" leaders" (this is in essence the premise of the recent movie The Invention of Lying )

So starting off from a logically and factually flawed premise gets us nowhere except in a circlejerk of name calling as your "deviousness of Alinskyites" demonstrates

Create a dependent society that can do nothing for itself.... not even think for itself. Tell them that self sufficiency is an evil thing.

Um the very purpose of society is to NOT BE self sufficient. So the notion that you can have a society that is based in self-sufficiency is inherently oxymoronic.

 

[Jen]

And the terrible thing about it is that it works and has worked beautifully. There are still some people who are hold outs and must be stifled, though. And we are them.

 

[anti.reptile]

Are you saying society should be dependent ? Like the Cuban model?

 

[Zarathustra]

The Constitution separates the powers of government in such a way that given a virtuous populace who therefore elect virtuous leaders, no one branch of government will become more powerful than the others. ....quote from AOD monster thread on Constitutionist verus progressive....attributed to AOD.

Now I think I fully understand the deviousness of the Alinskyites. Degenerate the voting populous and you thereby degenerate the foundation upon which good law and common sense are built. Create a dependent society that can do nothing for itself.... not even think for itself. Tell them that self sufficiency is an evil thing. Tell them that the collective owes them a living....that it must take care of them. Tell them that the self sufficient ones will destory that relationship uless they are themselves destoyed. Those evil, self sufficent conservatives!! Eric Holder must arrest them all and then detain them indefintely!!

This is hardly an original approach.

Lenin/Stalin........Mao Zedong.........Fidel Castro.......Kim Sung Il..................you get the idea.

 

[justoffal]

Indeed.... there is an observalbe pattern but because none of them sat down to pen ad admission of it the left will always feel as though none of it rises to the level of proof.

 

[justoffal]

gotta go for now....but stay tuned I will be back online in about two hours.

 

[Angel of Dearth]

Why would you choose those media outlets as some sort of standard bearer?

 

[Doc]

The Constitution separates the powers of government in such a way that given a virtuous populace who therefore elect virtuous leaders, no one branch of government will become more powerful than the others. ....quote from AOD monster thread on Constitutionist verus progressive....attributed to AOD.

Now I think I fully understand the deviousness of the Alinskyites. Degenerate the voting populous and you thereby degenerate the foundation upon which good law and common sense are built. Create a dependent society that can do nothing for itself.... not even think for itself. Tell them that self sufficiency is an evil thing. Tell them that the collective owes them a living....that it must take care of them. Tell them that the self sufficient ones will destory that relationship uless they are themselves destoyed. Those evil, self sufficent conservatives!! Eric Holder must arrest them all and then detain them indefintely!!

Socialism tends to require some form of "FORCE" sooner, or later......

As such, American Socialists will do all that they can to limit the abilities and rights of anyone who holds a differing view....

 

[Angel of Dearth]

Constitutionist vs. Progressive Continued

Exactly.

Constitution separates the powers of government in such a way that given a virtuous populace who therefore elect virtuous leaders, no one branch of government will become more powerful than the others.

And how does a Progressive make "progress" in a system of government DESIGNED to trip, delay, and veto itself into inaction? By undermining the Constitution. It is the only way. And how does that happen? By passing the 16th and 17th amendments. By ignoring the 10th amendment. By imagining the "General Welfare" clause means whateverthehell you want it to mean. By invoking the 14th amendment to grab even more power from the legislative branch vis a vis debt reduction. By granting legislative powers to the executive branch at the expense of the legislative branch to enact environmental laws (Cap and Trade) via the EPA and curtail the 1st amendment via the FCC (Net Neutrality). This is HOW Progressives undermine the Constitution. Progressives used to have no problem with admitting all this is true. They used to proudly admit it and point the finger at how obsolete the Constitution is. Now that more people are on to their crap, they cloak themselves in the Constitution and lo and behold! They're Constitutionists just like everybody else.

Not for one minute am I buying that. I know too well how they operate to fall for such a lie.

And you're right about Alinsky. His revolutionary tactics come into play late in the Progressive platform. For generations Progressives have labored to hollow out American society through (lack of) education, smug and tyrannical politicians, and media programming.

Alinsky tactics only work when people have been made into such slugs as to entertain and embrace such tactics. Once that is achieved, Alinsky dovetails with Progressive tactics like hand-in-glove.

(Bummer. I got a pop up window warning because the thread was taking too long to load. Ah well.)

 

[GordonGecko]

Mind you I am waiting for Degsme here because we agreed to continue this sujbect off of the monster thread below....

However I would be amused to see this through for now. Okay...let's start with the Alinsky confusion tactic....confuse the masses...stir them up with no real reason and never tag-name the cause until it has attained a certain level of momentum.

Like Iraq had something to do with 9/11?

 

[degsme]

gotta go for now....but stay tuned I will be back online in about two hours.

Fair enough... I gotta pick my son up at the airport this afternoon, so I may not respond until tomorrow.

 

[degsme]

And the terrible thing about it is that it works and has worked beautifully. There are still some people who are hold outs and must be stifled, though. And we are them.

Hmmm and this is an example of one of those posts where you are engaged in a fact based discussion rather than name calling... the kind you so proudly put forth as you "trying"???? LOL!!!

 

[degsme]

Socialism tends to require some form of "FORCE" sooner, or later......

Really? So ESOPs require force? Because Socialism simply is Workers Owning the MEans of Production.

 

[degsme]

Exactly.


Constitutionist vs. Progressive Continued

And how does a Progressive make "progress" in a system of government DESIGNED to trip, delay, and veto itself into inaction? By undermining the Constitution. It is the only way. And how does that happen? By passing the 16th and 17th amendments. By ignoring the 10th amendment. By imagining the "General Welfare" clause means whateverthehell you want it to mean. By invoking the 14th amendment to grab even more power from the legislative branch vis a vis debt reduction. By granting legislative powers to the executive branch at the expense of the legislative branch to enact environmental laws (Cap and Trade) via the EPA and curtail the 1st amendment via the FCC (Net Neutrality). This is HOW Progressives undermine the Constitution. Progressives used to have no problem with admitting all this is true. They used to proudly admit it and point the finger at how obsolete the Constitution is. Now that more people are on to their crap, they cloak themselves in the Constitution and lo and behold! They're Constitutionists just like everybody else.

Not for one minute am I buying that. I know too well how they operate to fall for such a lie.

And you're right about Alinsky. His revolutionary tactics come into play late in the Progressive platform. For generations Progressives have labored to hollow out American society through (lack of) education, smug and tyrannical politicians, and media programming.

Alinsky tactics only work when people have been made into such slugs as to entertain and embrace such tactics. Once that is achieved, Alinsky dovetails with Progressive tactics like hand-in-glove.

(Bummer. I got a pop up window warning because the thread was taking too long to load. Ah well.)

And back to Ad hominem fallacy we go...

no this isn't a continuation this is a discussion between Justoffal and those willing to engage in reasoned debate.

 

[degsme]

Indeed.... there is an observalbe pattern but because none of them sat down to pen ad admission of it the left will always feel as though none of it rises to the level of proof.

Actually Lenin and Stalin were quite open about the fact that they were neither socialist nor communist but rather engaged in The Dictatorship Of The Proletariat and that there needed to be about 3 generations of AUTHORITARIAN RULE before Socialism or Communism could even begin.

So to pretend that they were socialist or communist or that they did not admit to their divergence is simply a-historical

Read up on your history.... http://www.amazon.com/Stalin-Court-Simon-Sebag-Montefiore/dp/1400042305