Republicans fixing to blame Iraq meltdown on Obama...

[GordonGecko]

Are you really still claiming that those idiots did not know what they were signing off on? I am really not sure what else to say if you honestly believe that other then I hope they put ice in your kool-aide.

Always interesting, isnt it, SOL?

The Right wants to give Bush ALL the "credit" for "winning Iraq"....but has to say "Dems were in on it too" when it comes to no WMDs and the fact the war is highly unpopular even to today.

 

[Sickofleft]

That's ridiculous. Iraq is far from stable.

Baghdad has been divided into a balkan city of walled off neighborhoods divided by tribe and religious sect. The bombings, assasination and intrigues have never stopped.

The US led surge put a hold on a growing civil war, but did not end it.

Iran has been heavily involved in the Shite led Iraqi government since its inception.

And Iraqi oil production didn't return to pre invasion levels until last year.

Iraq is an unstable failed state. It was a failed state before we invaded it, destroyed much of what was left, and turned millions of people into refugees and thousands into corpses.

Destroying a country in order to "save" it, isn't nation building.

Iraq is glad to see the back of us, no matter what comes next.

Right, and what your dear leader just did is going to make it sooo much better Tommy, isn't? He wants to contain Iran isn't that also your theory...great way to start.....hand them Iraq. What's ridiculous is your theory.

 

[Sickofleft]

No Richard Clarkes "hair on fire" does not ring a bell with anyone except him and idiots who published his book.

 

[GordonGecko]

Tom, simpler than that....

BEFORE Bush's war, Iraq was led by a secular Sunni who the Iranians feared and loathed and focused all their attention on.

AFTER Bush's war, Iraq was led by a Shiite who had Ahmadinejad over for tea.


Neo-cons consider this a "victory" against "radical Islam".

 

[middleview]

Are you really still claiming that those idiots did not know what they were signing off on? I am really not sure what else to say if you honestly believe that other then I hope they put ice in your kool-aide.

about half of the dems voted for it. Of the half that did I would give some the benefit of the doubt that they either believed Bush when they heard the "smoking gun/mushroom cloud" comments or when Bush said that he needed the resolution to force Saddam to comply and that the military option would not be his first choice.

Broncos vs Steelers on Sunday.....what a conundrum. I think my greatest fear maybe that the Broncos somehow pull another one out of their butts and go on to lose by another point spread record....

 

[middleview]

Bullshit.

I guess if you got nothing else.....Bush did negotiate the SOFA, right? That agreement did specify that our troops would be out last month, right? The Iraqis decided they didn't want troops to stay, right? The rest of your views on this are pure conjecture.

The idea that keeping our troops in Iraq would somehow prevent the car bombings and suicide attacks is nuts. Why would we want to be in the middle of religious wack jobs killing each other?

 

[middleview]

No Richard Clarkes "hair on fire" does not ring a bell with anyone except him and idiots who published his book.

Clarke was the only one to apologize for failing to stop the attacks. Why would he lie about his efforts as chief anti-terrorism official in the White House? Condi Rice, on the other hand, is laughable when she claims that the PDB entitled "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" didn't actually mean that...."it was an historic document"....not a warning.

http://cnettv.cnet.com/richard-clarke-9-11-apology/9742-1_53-50010354.html

Sometimes it bums me out the lengths to which you will go to apologize or dismiss the failures of the Bush administration...even if it requires character assassination to do so.

 

[middleview]

I guess Eisenhower had no balls, also, since he presided over the last 6 months of the war.....

 

[zzigzzag]

I'll bet it rings a bell with George Tenet.

"Many of the events Clarke recounted during the hearings were also published in his memoir. Among his highly critical statements regarding the Bush Administration, Clarke charged that before and during the 9/11 crisis, many in the administration were distracted from efforts against Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaeda organization by a pre-occupation with Iraq and Saddam Hussein. Clarke had written that on September 12, 2001, President Bush pulled him and a couple of aides aside and "testily" asked him to try to find evidence that Saddam was connected to the terrorist attacks. In response he wrote a report stating there was no evidence of Iraqi involvement and got it signed by all relevant agencies, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the CIA. The paper was quickly returned by a deputy with a note saying "Please update and resubmit."[10] After initially denying that such a meeting between the President and Clarke took place, the White House later reversed its denial when others present backed Clarke's version of the events."

 

[Sickofleft]

Always interesting, isnt it, SOL?

The Right wants to give Bush ALL the "credit" for "winning Iraq"....but has to say "Dems were in on it too" when it comes to no WMDs and the fact the war is highly unpopular even to today.

Apparently you missed it when I said this:

This is not true. Only when the war went bad (as in when Hussein was tossed and it was discovered Bush had no real plan as to what to do next, which he does deserve to be raked over the coals for) that they started claiming...."well we really did not vote for this".....

The surge would not have even been neccessary had they had a real plan in place to begin with, so go talk to someone else about "giving credit for "winning Iraq".

 

[Sickofleft]

I guess if you got nothing else.....Bush did negotiate the SOFA, right? That agreement did specify that our troops would be out last month, right? The Iraqis decided they didn't want troops to stay, right? The rest of your views on this are pure conjecture.

The idea that keeping our troops in Iraq would somehow prevent the car bombings and suicide attacks is nuts. Why would we want to be in the middle of religious wack jobs killing each other?

I got plenty you want to keep going over and over the same ground we can do this all day. Its not going to change the fact President Obama

ed this up by drawing down way to fast. Its not going to change the fact that he did it for the election and nothing else.

 

[Sickofleft]

"Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" Was an historic document that offered nothing specific sorry if historical fact bums you out but its not my fault that your derangement syndrome causes you take it as an apology.

PS. Clarkes apology was the biggest peice of self serving bullshit, talk about an over inflated sense of self worth. When he did not get the job he wanted (head of Homeland Security) he bravely wrote a book.

 

[Sickofleft]

It was a pathetic case of CYA, there was a million other ways they could have held Bush accountable for not having a plan after Husseins Goverment fell besides suddenly claiming that what "they authorized suddenly did not mean what it said it did"....very classy.

I like Tebow, good kid, works hard he is just not.....ummm......a very good QB. Not sure what you guys are going to or what you should do with him. I feel sorry for Brady Quinn what does he have to do get in a game?

 

[Doc]

yea!

You

es whine if Choclate Jesus has to ever carry any blame, while, at the same time, STILL blaming all that is "bad in this world," on George W. Bush.

Basically, you are guilty of the very thing this post is whinning about.

Don't bother with the canned response, as I already know: "But, it's DIFFFERENT, when WE do it....."

But, you are in NO WAY, Hypocritical......

 

[middleview]

I got plenty you want to keep going over and over the same ground we can do this all day. Its not going to change the fact President Obama

ed this up by drawing down way to fast. Its not going to change the fact that he did it for the election and nothing else.

You seem to confuse your opinions with facts. Your "bullschit" answer did not address one single point in my post.

Drawing down to fast is your opinion. Our troops did not belong in Iraq specifically because they were just targets for the Sunni vs Shiite violence. Their very presence was a factor in the effort to recruit anti-government fighters because the "cause" was ejecting the foreigners. Why do you think the Brits and Australians had withdrawn?

 

[Doc]

You start with empty ad homenin about the "evils of the world", as if that had something to do with starting a war in the wrong country, and then you finish up by setting up a straw man claim "blaming all the world's evil on George Bush".

I guess you need to argue with yourself, hence the straw men and the putting words in other people's mouths, which you seem to do a lot.

What do you expect?

After all, according to your FAITH, I am nothing more than a "Racist-Fascist, greedy, Homophic Redncek," GEORGE BUSH is the cause of all the worlds Ills, and...Choclate Jesus is actually a 'decent' president......

There is no discussing such topics with the likes of you, as you are a completely CLOSED MINDED Libbie, who is also, largely intolerant of those who dare have a differing opinion than you do.....

 

[Sickofleft]

Facts? Your post had facts...????? You have done nothing but deny the facts on this topic from the begining its like talking to a wall. What do you say to someone that has a death grip on a set of useless DNC talking points that are void of reality?

just targets for the Sunni vs Shiite violence. Last I looked it was 2012 not 2006.....but this President has assured your going to have that civil war you guys have been dreaming of hasn't he?

Why is that again....just so he could say in his campaign stops he ended the Iraq war.....just shhhhhhhhhhhh don't bring up any of the ACTUAL FACTS ON THE GROUND (toss in his drawdown in Afghanistan as well while your at it, another great ignoring of military advice for the same exact reason.)

 

[RedCloud]

"George Bush sent those suicide bombers into Baghdad last week?"

Last week and for the last nine years. Yes. Every suicide bomber. Remember? He openly invited them. "Bring it on". They weren't there until he invited them.

This is a guy who cowered from the war of his generation and then uses his position as CIC to posture as a tough guy and gets tens of thousands of people killed and maimed for nothing. F_ck the cowardly, self aggrandizing SOB. He's a piece of shit.

Amen!

 

[middleview]

"Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" Was an historic document that offered nothing specific sorry if historical fact bums you out but its not my fault that your derangement syndrome causes you take it as an apology.

PS. Clarkes apology was the biggest peice of self serving bullshit, talk about an over inflated sense of self worth. When he did not get the job he wanted (head of Homeland Security) he bravely wrote a book.

Take what as an apology? Rice tried to hide that the PDB had even been a warning of Bin Laden's attempt.

Hmmm, bravely wrote a book? Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, Wolfwitz, Feith.....no books from that crowd?

Clarke was demoted by Bush because Bush wasn't interested in counter terrorism, he was more interested in the star wars program. Clarke went from reporting to the president under Clinton to reporting to Condoleeza. Bush didn't even have a meeting with Clarke until after 911. You jump on the opportunity to criticize Clarke and ignore that the guy was probably frustrated as hell at the events of 911. I give him the benefit of the doubt. I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe Clarke left because he didn't get the job of head of Homeland Security.

Clarke wrote that when he first briefed Rice on Al-Qaeda, in a January 2001 meeting, "her facial expression gave me the impression she had never heard the term before." He also stated that Rice made a decision that the position of national coordinator for counterterrorism should be downgraded. By demoting the office, the administration sent a signal through the national security bureaucracy about the salience they assigned to terrorism. No longer would Clarke's memos go to the president; instead they had to pass though a chain of command of National Security Adviser Rice and her deputy Stephen Hadley, who bounced every one of them back.

Within a week of the inauguration, I wrote to Rice and Hadley asking 'urgently' for a Principals, or Cabinet-level, meeting to review the imminent Al-Qaeda threat. Rice told me that the Principals Committee, which had been the first venue for terrorism policy discussions in the Clinton administration, would not address the issue until it had been 'framed' by the Deputies.[8]

At the first Deputies Committee meeting on Terrorism held in April 2001, Clarke strongly suggested that the U.S. put pressure on both the Taliban and Al-Qaeda by arming the Northern Alliance and other groups in Afghanistan. Simultaneously, that they target bin Laden and his leadership by reinitiating flights of the MQ-1 Predators. To which Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz responded, "Well, I just don't understand why we are beginning by talking about this one man bin Laden." Clarke replied that he was talking about bin Laden and his network because it posed "an immediate and serious threat to the United States." According to Clarke, Wolfowitz turned to him and said, "You give bin Laden too much credit. He could not do all these things like the 1993 attack on New York, not without a state sponsor. Just because FBI and CIA have failed to find the linkages does not mean they don't exist."

 

[zzigzzag]

"Chocolate Jesus". Gee. Nothing telling about that.

The rest is blather. I blame Bush for Iraq....the topic....remember? Not "all that is bad in this world" as your straw man.... the only guy you're comfortable with debating....apparently does.

You are correct about me being in no way hypocritical. Just critical. Bushies can't tell the difference. They're as focused on blaming Obama for Bush's sins as Bush was in blaming Saddam for al Qaeda's.